Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 It really boils down to this: If you can keep only 1 of Castillo, Lowell, and Lee, who do you keep? Who is most valuable to the team? Who is the biggest piece? Which can you not afford to part with? The answer invariably is Mike Lowell every time. Maybe what this front office should do is keep Mike Lowell and deal the other two. I think Luis is a fantastic player but I'll take an All-Star run-producing 3B over an All-Star leadoff hitter any day. Finding takers for Luis is not a problem (Cubs, Reds, etc). Chicago would happily swap Bobby Hill for him. As for Derek Lee, you take what you can get. He's a decent first baseman, but replaceable. Meanwhile, you have: 1. Money freed up to sign Lowell long term or at least another season. 2. Three top prospects (Stokes, Cabrera, Adrian) to compete for 1B and an outfield spot. 3. Money left over to go after another outfielder or shore up the bullpen. 4. Whatever players/prospects come back from the Luis and Lee deals. ***If they could get through this by dealing only one player I would say fantastic, deal one player (preferably Lee) for anything and be done with it. But from my calculations I think they're still way over budget. So with trade rumors flying, on the verge of possibly losing both Lowell and Castillo, I'm coming up with an alternative. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 If we wind up with any of them, it'll be Lee. Of the three, he'll be the player with the least leverage in negotiations (or is it arbitration for him this year?) because of his atrocious performance and subsequently be the cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 And to answer the obvious question of why they might have to trade 2 of these players.... -We owe Atlanta an extra million on Hampton's deal next year. -Pierre's salary goes up an extra 1.2 million -Most everyone on these 1-year contracts is going to get an increase. That's nearly the whole team. Let's say you dump Hollandsworth at 1.5, Vlad Nunez at 1.4, and Lee at 3.7 and replace them with rookies just for argument's sake. Lee's salary takes care of Lowell's raise. The money from Holly & Nunez (minus the minimum cost for replacements) equals roughly the raise to Hampton and Pierre. That leaves no money at all for the increases on 1-year deals and arbitration-eligible players. Increases from 2002 to 2003 were somewhere in the area of 6 million from what I can tell. That money's gotta come from somewhere. *Yeah FishFillet, Lee's one of 7 arbitration eligible Marlins with 5 years of service. They say he could command around 7 million next year. We'll see who wants to pay him that much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurableTear Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 *Yeah FishFillet, Lee's one of 7 arbitration eligible Marlins with 5 years of service. They say he could command around 7 million next year. We'll see who wants to pay him that much... DLee might get $7 and a $1 bonus... anything over that is... well... stupid.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 C'mon, give me some feedback here guys. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work out? You trade Luis to the Cubs now, but keep Lowell. After the season, get what you can for Derek Lee. If you go into next season with Cabrera in left field and Adrian/Stokes at first, how much are you really losing? We've gotten basically zero production out of left field this year, and Lee is just an infuriating tease at first. Get Bobby Hill back from the Cubs to play second. We're on the verge of losing Lowell soon, and Mike's really the only one of the three who would be worth the money he's going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 If we wind up with any of them, it'll be Lee. Of the three, he'll be the player with the least leverage in negotiations (or is it arbitration for him this year?) because of his atrocious performance and subsequently be the cheapest. Actually, Mike Lowell is supposed to be cheaper than Lee through arbitration. I have always said this Hot Corner, and we agree. Lee and Castillo buhbye, Lowell stays. It might not be that simple, but that is what will happen in my mind. Call me crazy, call me anything, but Lowell will be here in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marlins02 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 if derrick lee gets $7 million for hitting .250 and really never doing anything with the bat in his career, that will be one of the stupidest moves they would make, right up there with giving Pudge $10 million when we didnt need a catcher instead of giving Millar the $5 mill he wanted and deserved. its time to face facts, DLee was a bust. i would keep Mike, great glove and big bat, no disrespect to Luis, he's a great player himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJBurnett34 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I would keep lowell for the fact that he is our best players and is the only guy that can hit Clutch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 I have always said this Hot Corner, and we agree. Lee and Castillo buhbye, Lowell stays. It might not be that simple, but that is what will happen in my mind. Call me crazy, call me anything, but Lowell will be here in 2004. But it SHOULD be that simple. The Cubs want Lowell, but they'll also be happy to take Castillo off our hands. An article I read lately suggested that if a deal couldn't be worked out for Lowell, the Cubs could instead take Luis, put him at 2B and move Grudzielanek at third in place of that stiff Adrian Beltre. You look at the projected numbers next year, and as much as I love Luis as a player, having him at 6 million is almost as pointless as paying Lee 6 million. On-base % guys just can't be paid that much, at least not on this team. Save the money for Lowell. Next year you still have Mike, while you throw out a solid rotation and bring up a rookie in Cabrera that's as highty-touted a prospect as we've had since Beckett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markotsay7 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 ...the Cubs could instead take Luis, put him at 2B and move Grudzielanek at third in place of that stiff Adrian Beltre. Beltre = on the Dodgers, not Cubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 ah crap, I knew that.... :dork Nevermind, obviously the story I read was that the DODGERS were interested in getting Castillo, and moving Grudzy to third. Regardless, there's no shortage of teams interested in him. Reds, Cubs, Dodgers, take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 crap, I knew that.... Nevermind, obviously the story I read was that the DODGERS were interested in getting Castillo, and moving Grudzy to third. Grudzy = On the Cubs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 oh to helll with it, I'm losing my mind with this..... :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minus Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Trade D.Lee and get whatever you can get!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry I get carry away when it comes to Clutch hitting Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Trade D.Lee and get whatever you can get!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure idiocy... :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 D. Lee is a white elephant right now. If he doesn't start hitting his arbitration numbers will go through the floor. So, unless D. Lee starts playing like he could, he's going to strikeout his way into a pay cut and at least another year in the Teal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 D. Lee is a white elephant right now. If he doesn't start hitting his arbitration numbers will go through the floor. So, unless D. Lee starts playing like he could, he's going to strikeout his way into a pay cut and at least another year in the Teal. D-Lee is gone... Even if he has a bad year, he still commands $5-6 Million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minus Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Trade D.Lee and get whatever you can get!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure idiocy... :banghead No you self proclaim Guru........It is best the Marlins to try to get something in return for D.Lee than lose him for nothing in the offseason.D.Lee is an average player and nothing more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 No you self proclaim Guru........It is best the Marlins to try to get something in return for D.Lee than lose him for nothing in the offseason.D.Lee is an average player and nothing more than that. It isn't idiocy to trade him during the season, but it is complete idiocy to say, "Take what you can get!" That's just dumb. When you trade a player, you never just say, "Oh, well whatever you guys wanna give ys for him we'll take..." You have to think of what you want for him and get it. If that team wants/needs him badly enough then you can get a pretty good package for him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 No you self proclaim Guru........It is best the Marlins to try to get something in return for D.Lee than lose him for nothing in the offseason.D.Lee is an average player and nothing more than that. It isn't idiocy to trade him during the season, but it is complete idiocy to say, "Take what you can get!" That's just dumb. When you trade a player, you never just say, "Oh, well whatever you guys wanna give ys for him we'll take..." You have to think of what you want for him and get it. If that team wants/needs him badly enough then you can get a pretty good package for him... you know what he meant.... trade DLee for the best thing that is offered.... im sorry your favorite player is really biting the big one right now but he is.... he needs to see a sports psychologist....he should be the best 1st baseman in baseball....but something is really wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Seriously Josh don't give people a hard time for being sarcastic and right now D.Lee should be traded away from a can of beans because unless I'm in a hitters park I don't want him... Trade D.Lee to The Rangers, and then they dump Rafi in the FA market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 No one in there right mind would trade for Lee with that gargantuan salary expectation he's dragging around with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 Lee doesn't even really have to have a great year, he can still demand a ton of money. These 5th year arbitration-eligible players have a big advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ok, back to the solution/prediction 1) Lee continues to have an average year, at best. 2) Lowell and Castillo go by-by 3) Lee tests the market with his arbitration backed 3-5 mil expectation 4) Every team in the league tells him to go sit on his thumb (a'la Pudge) 5) Marlins offer and sign him a 1 year deal worth 2-3 mil 6) Repeat in future years as neccessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ok, back to the solution/prediction 1) Lee continues to have an average year, at best. 2) Lowell and Castillo go by-by 3) Lee tests the market with his arbitration backed 3-5 mil expectation 4) Every team in the league tells him to go sit on his thumb (a'la Pudge) 5) Marlins offer and sign him a 1 year deal worth 2-3 mil 6) Repeat in future years as neccessary But see, that isn't going to happen. You think if another team that needs a 1B knows we are only going to offer him 3 mill they won't offer him four? In the right ballpark, D-Lee hits 35 HR a season. Not Pro Player. He is a Right-Center HR hitter, and you're gonna have to hit it 410 FT to get it out at the Pro. Almost anywhere else, you hit it 370-380 and it's out. D-Lee will get the 5-7 Mill he wants. BTW: Ramp, Derrek is not at all my favorite Marlin, but because he is a Marlin, I stick by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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