November 21, 200421 yr Just like old times: Marlins make pitch for Leiter Posted on Sun, Nov. 21, 2004 MARLINS NOTEBOOK Just like old times: Marlins make pitch for Leiter BY CLARK SPENCER cspencer@herald.com With their prospects of keeping Carl Pavano diminishing rapidly, the Marlins have submitted a one-year offer to a familiar name from the club's past -- veteran pitcher Al Leiter. Leiter, who has announced plans to retire after the upcoming season, is also mulling an offer to remain with the Mets and is reportedly receiving strong interest from the Yankees. The 39-year-old left-hander was an integral member of the 1997 World Series champion Marlins -- starting Game 7 for them -- and spent the past seven seasons with the Mets. He was 10-8 with a 3.21 ERA for the Mets last season. The Marlins are believed to have offered Leiter a contract in the $7 million range and, according to a report in The Newark Star-Ledger, have spoken to the pitcher about eventually assuming duties as a television broadcaster following his retirement. Leiter opted for free agency last week after the Mets declined a $10.2 million option for 2005, choosing instead to give him a $2.1 million contract buyout. But the Mets are still angling to hang on to the pitcher and offered him a one-year deal that calls for a $4 million base salary and incentives that could increase the total by an additional $3 million. Pavano received a three-year, $21 million offer to remain with the Marlins, but that figure is not expected to be enough to entice the pitcher into remaining with the team. The Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Orioles and Mariners are among the handful of teams pursuing Pavano, who could command a four-year deal worth as much as $36 million. Assuming Pavano isn't back, the Marlins rotation is certain to consist of only three returning starters: Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnett and Dontrelle Willis. The Marlins would like to add a seasoned veteran such as Leiter to act as a mentor and stabilizing influence to the young staff.
November 21, 200421 yr :lol We are signing him so he can be our play by play guy in 2006 or 2007 7 Million is a little more than I expected but it sure as hell beats the New York offer pretty good.
November 22, 200421 yr :lol We are signing him so he can be our play by play guy in 2006 or 2007 619007[/snapback] Nope, secondary color analyst alongside T-Hut.
November 22, 200421 yr Author He'll definitely accept it. 619452[/snapback] dont you dare the jinx this... 619453[/snapback] He won't get a deal better than this anywhere else. Even if the Yankees offer more money, he'll have to pay income tax on it that he won't have to pay here AND he won't be guaranteed a broadcasting job like with us .
November 22, 200421 yr Author He would be a great pick up. Who would we then get to be a number 5 pitcher? 619472[/snapback] Burnett, Beckett, Leiter, D-Train... Valdez? What's the latest with Valdez? I'll be happy with pretty much any #5 starter we pickup as long as it's not another AAA garbage player like all of last season, or even worse...... Logan Kensing.
November 22, 200421 yr A good 5th starter is not needed. At worst they'll start 30 games and even a corpse couldn't lose all 30. As long as they have an ERA under 5 we'll be fine. Wayne, Bump, Kensing, Hutchinson, any AAA player could do that IF handed the job out of spring training and not asked to jump back and forth from extended stays in the bullpen and rotation.
November 22, 200421 yr A good 5th starter is not needed. At worst they'll start 30 games and even a corpse couldn't lose all 30. As long as they have an ERA under 5 we'll be fine. Wayne, Bump, Kensing, Hutchinson, any AAA player could do that IF handed the job out of spring training and not asked to jump back and forth from extended stays in the bullpen and rotation. 619577[/snapback] The objective is not to place a team in the position to most likely lose every fifth day but rather to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace.
November 22, 200421 yr I'd take Leiter. He's lightyears better than any crap combo from the minors. Of course, I'd take Pavano over Leiter but both would be nice.
November 22, 200421 yr Bump cannot start at the major league level hes shown that obviously, and wayne doesnt seem to be able to either. Sign veterans
November 22, 200421 yr On its face, signing Leiter for one year seems to be the perfect shortgap solution for the Marlins. The combination of maturity, proven skills and short contractural duration seems to resolve a number of problems for the Fish. And the fact that the Marlins may be willing to offer the guy a future (after baseball) in the booth seems, at least to me, to be the perfect marriage. Working against the team is Leiter's ties to the metro NYC area but those ties also limit his options to the Mets and Yankees. It wil be interesting to see how this all plays out. Until the Marlins have a stadium deal in hand and can begin to see a projectible cashflow stream I think we'll see any number of these types of signings.
November 22, 200421 yr A good 5th starter is not needed. At worst they'll start 30 games and even a corpse couldn't lose all 30. As long as they have an ERA under 5 we'll be fine. Wayne, Bump, Kensing, Hutchinson, any AAA player could do that IF handed the job out of spring training and not asked to jump back and forth from extended stays in the bullpen and rotation. 619577[/snapback] The objective is not to place a team in the position to most likely lose every fifth day but rather to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace. 619749[/snapback] Not if the 5th starter costs more than 750K. He only plays every 5th day if that.
November 22, 200421 yr A good 5th starter is not needed. At worst they'll start 30 games and even a corpse couldn't lose all 30. As long as they have an ERA under 5 we'll be fine. Wayne, Bump, Kensing, Hutchinson, any AAA player could do that IF handed the job out of spring training and not asked to jump back and forth from extended stays in the bullpen and rotation. 619577[/snapback] The objective is not to place a team in the position to most likely lose every fifth day but rather to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace. 619749[/snapback] Not if the 5th starter costs more than 750K. He only plays every 5th day if that. 619779[/snapback] Shamster my dear friend, I have no idea what your point is. If the goal is to win as many games possible in a 162 game season, and last time I checked that's the idea in MLB, then why should a fifth starter be worth $750k and your first starter be worth 10 times (more or less) more in that each will start theoretically the same number of games and each game has the same importance. A Valdez victory doesn't count less in the win column than one by AJ Burnett.
November 22, 200421 yr Only bad part about signing Leiter would be that he is a Type A free agent I'm pretty sure. We would lose the 16th pick in the draft if we were to sign him before the arbitration date which is sometime in December I think.
November 22, 200421 yr Only bad part about signing Leiter would be that he is a Type A free agent I'm pretty sure. We would lose the 16th pick in the draft if we were to sign him before the arbitration date which is sometime in December I think. 620025[/snapback] We'd be picking up picks for Pavano and Benitez if the FO lets him go too.
November 23, 200421 yr The objective is not to place a team in the position to most likely lose every fifth day but rather to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace. 619749[/snapback] No. Frontline starters play more games than your backend starters. Frontline pitching has great tendency to perform well in the playoffs. Bump cannot start at the major league level hes shown that obviously, and wayne doesnt seem to be able to either. Sign veterans 619763[/snapback] Oliver. Hentgen. Nomo. Bobby F-ing Jones. For every single young player who had a disappointing season I can name an equally terrible or overpaid veteran.
November 23, 200421 yr The objective is not to place a team in the position to most likely lose every fifth day but rather to win as many games as possible throughout the season. The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace. 619749[/snapback] No. Frontline starters play more games than your backend starters. Frontline pitching has great tendency to perform well in the playoffs. You have to get to the playoffs first. You get to the playoffs by winning games. You try to win every game you play.
November 23, 200421 yr I really have no f-ing idea what you're talking about now. Maybe you're purposing a radical rethinking to how rotations are built. However until the Phillies and Braves join the Mets in building rotations full of #3-quality starters, I think it's safe to way we stand a pretty decent chance when Wayne/Bump/$750K Schmo meet up with most 5th starters.
November 23, 200421 yr Author I really have no f-ing idea what you're talking about now. Maybe you're purposing a radical rethinking to how rotations are built. However until the Phillies and Braves join the Mets in building rotations full of #3-quality starters, I think it's safe to way we stand a pretty decent chance when Wayne/Bump/$750K Schmo meet up with most 5th starters. 620196[/snapback] That is incredibly naive. Wayne and Bump were awful last year starting in the #5 spot, so it is completely illogical to think that the same AAA garbage we put in last year is going to be any different this year. Need I even bring up Darren Oliver? The #5 slot was a complete disaster until we acquired Valdez and unless we re-sign Valdez or someone just as good, we have no chance of winning games every 5th day unless our offense puts up 10 runs. We cannot afford to have a minor leaguer starting every 5th day, it didn't work last year you have no basis whatsoever to suggest that it will work in 2005, it's just that simple. Mike Lowell even came out in the press and flat out said we have no chance unless we add more veterans to the club.
November 23, 200421 yr I really have no f-ing idea what you're talking about now. Maybe you're purposing a radical rethinking to how rotations are built. However until the Phillies and Braves join the Mets in building rotations full of #3-quality starters, I think it's safe to way we stand a pretty decent chance when Wayne/Bump/$750K Schmo meet up with most 5th starters. 620196[/snapback] I had a philosophy professor once named Dr. Grossbeck. He would on occassion walk up to me in the middle of the hall and scream (!!) "You hear but you don't listen." Had you read what I wrote a few posts ago you would see that I didn't say the number five pitcher is neccessarily as skilled as the ace of your staff. What I said was "The (fourth and) fifth starter is as important to his team on the day he pitches as the team's ace. I stand by that.
November 23, 200421 yr I really have no f-ing idea what you're talking about now. Maybe you're purposing a radical rethinking to how rotations are built. However until the Phillies and Braves join the Mets in building rotations full of #3-quality starters, I think it's safe to way we stand a pretty decent chance when Wayne/Bump/$750K Schmo meet up with most 5th starters. 620196[/snapback] Ask the Chicago White Sox how important a 5th starter can be. I don't think their 5th starter won until July.
November 23, 200421 yr That's fine, but A. It's untrue. You must adjust for the level of opponent. B. It's misleading. Over the course of a season your frontline starters contribute more outings. Perhaps you were confused by my original statement. Sham tried to lead you back, but you kept running out to left. I was proposing cutting costs at the 5th starter spot by adding more of a traditional scrub, limit his starts and spend elsewhere. Yes, the 5th starter role cost us games, but... had either Beckett not been injured, Burnett/Willis/Penny/Pavano given quality starts during that period, or McKeon skipped over starters on off-days we may have made the playoffs. June and July ruined the Marlins. The entire rotation tanked while the offense was in its season-long slump. No way you can pin that on Phelps, Bump, Wayne, Tejera and Oliver for all of that. I don't know what you were watching, but Valdez was every bit as terrible. His 4 to 6 inning outings taxed the bullpen, something we would later regret, and he couldn't get anyone out away from Pro Player. He's just another player thanking the baseball deities for PPS's deep fences and the Marlins' good defense. You can create a solid #5 for the league-minimum.
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