December 4, 200421 yr And his achievments were'nt unquestionable. 626399[/snapback] Wait. Does that mean that his achievements WERE questionable? And whose achievements are we talking about here, Pete's or Barry's? I don't think you can question the achievements of either player. 626403[/snapback] Sorry, I was running out the door when I wrote that. What I mean is Barry's records could be completley bogus. Pete Rose didn't cheat to get hits. 626434[/snapback] neither did Bonds. It's not cheating. It has to be against the rules to be cheating. And plus he got better after he stopped taking them, while everyone else (Giambi, Sosa), had a huge dropoff in performance after they stopped. Explain that
December 4, 200421 yr And his achievments were'nt unquestionable. 626399[/snapback] Wait. Does that mean that his achievements WERE questionable? And whose achievements are we talking about here, Pete's or Barry's? I don't think you can question the achievements of either player. 626403[/snapback] Sorry, I was running out the door when I wrote that. What I mean is Barry's records could be completley bogus. Pete Rose didn't cheat to get hits. 626434[/snapback] neither did Bonds. It's not cheating. It has to be against the rules to be cheating. And plus he got better after he stopped taking them, while everyone else (Giambi, Sosa), had a huge dropoff in performance after they stopped. Explain that 626440[/snapback] It's banned by the government. Against the rules enough for ya? And no where has it been said that he stopped taking them at all.
December 4, 200421 yr It's banned by the government. Against the rules enough for ya? 626443[/snapback] no, only distribution of steroids is banned from the government. Nobody has ever been arrested just for possessing steroids, and if it was illegal Bonds would be in jail by now. And even if it was illegal, it wasn't in MLB. they did not start steroid testing until this year. And unlike the NBA and NFL, MLB doesn't have rules punishing people for their personal life. So it wasn't cheating. It wasn't against MLB rules, the majority of players do it. And no where has it been said that he stopped taking them at all. You honestly think Bonds would be dumb enough to continue to take them after the BALCO thing came out?
December 4, 200421 yr no, only distribution of steroids is banned from the government.? Nobody has ever been arrested just for possessing steroids, and if it was illegal Bonds would be in jail by now. And even if it was illegal, it wasn't in MLB.? they did not start steroid testing until this year.? And unlike the NBA and NFL, MLB doesn't have rules punishing people for their personal life.? So it wasn't cheating.? It wasn't against MLB rules, the majority of players do it. You honestly think Bonds would be dumb enough to continue to take them after the BALCO thing came out? 626450[/snapback] I'll use the story my parents always told me: All your friends jump off a cliff, are you jumping off too? Two wrongs (or three, or four, or five, or a thousand) don't make a right, buddy. And who are these "everyone" you claim of? The Giambi brothers, Jose Canseco, and Ken Caminiti. You can throw McGwire and (unproven to my knowledge) Luis Gonzalez in there. That's 7 people, counting Bonds. In a league that probably saw 1,000 players partake in a pitch at the Major League level. Really got a good argument for everyone, there! When you break the government's rules, you are breaking the rules of a body that is higher than the MLB, therefore their laws supercede that of baseball. The distribution of steroids is illegal, the taking of steroids is illegal, the purchasing of it, etc. It is treated as an illicit drug, especially the designer steroids that Bonds used. Bonds isn't in jail because his trainer possesed the supplements, look at the indictments, and one of his charges will be this. Bonds also isn't in jail yet because the trial of BALCO is still in discovery/grand jury stage, plus he was granted immunity from prosecution to come clean with the world. Which he didn't do, he's going down for perjury and he deserves it. MLB doesn't have rules punishing people's personal lives? First off, taking steroids to greatly enhance your performance is not your personal life, it affects the game itself. Second off, does the MLB not ban marijuana and other illicit drugs? Maybe not, but does that mean it condones players taking them? No, because it is banned by the government, the body that rules them.
December 4, 200421 yr And even if it was illegal, it wasn't in MLB.626450[/snapback] Not to take a side, but... ...I didn't know that the rules and regulations of Major League Baseball override those of the federal government's. :confused EDIT: Oh, Juanky beat me to it.
December 4, 200421 yr And even if it was illegal, it wasn't in MLB.626450[/snapback] Not to take a side, but... ...I didn't know that the rules and regulations of Major League Baseball are bigger than the federal government's. :confused 626458[/snapback] Exactly, like it or not Congress has final say on what goes on in Major League Baseball, because it and it alone controls baseball's most prized posession: its anti-trust exemption.
December 4, 200421 yr And even if it was illegal, it wasn't in MLB.626450[/snapback] Not to take a side, but... ...I didn't know that the rules and regulations of Major League Baseball are bigger than the federal government's. :confused 626458[/snapback] Exactly, like it or not Congress has final say on what goes on in Major League Baseball, because it and it alone controls baseball's most prized posession: its anti-trust exemption. 626459[/snapback] But here's the thing: if it's not banned in MLB, it doesn't concern MLB. If possession of steroids was banned by the government (which it isn't), then the government would be able to do what they want, but it don't concern MLB. It's his personal life, and unlike the NFL and NBA, players don't get punished for what goes on in his personal life. Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that. But fact is, he didn't break any rules, so it's not cheating. He didn't even break the law because he didn't distribute steroids.
December 4, 200421 yr It isn't your personal life when it enhance the performance of your everyday job, now is it? And fine, drag his ass to jail instead.
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended.
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] that's ridiculous so ron artest shouldn't be suspended? after all, the fan he attacked was non NBA personnel thats like saying (on a larger scale) that if you murdered some average joe, u don't get suspended
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] that's ridiculous so ron artest shouldn't be suspended? after all, the fan he attacked was non NBA personnel thats like saying (on a larger scale) that if you murdered some average joe, u don't get suspended 626473[/snapback] That's not my point. That incident was as much in Franco's personal life as Bonds taking roids is, because they both affect what is happening on the field of play.
December 4, 200421 yr It isn't your personal life when it enhance the performance of your everyday job, now is it? And fine, drag his ass to jail instead. 626469[/snapback] But it wasn't against the law. Nobody has ever been arrested just for possession of steroids. Your training regime, as long as you don't break any MLB rules, doesn't concern MLB. He didn't break any rules, so it is his personal life.
December 4, 200421 yr 19 Human Growth Hormone/Steroids Statutory Overview The above link is directly to the US Department of Justice website. Check out the verbiage for yourself...
December 4, 200421 yr It isn't your personal life when it enhance the performance of your everyday job, now is it? And fine, drag his ass to jail instead. 626469[/snapback] But it wasn't against the law. Nobody has ever been arrested just for possession of steroids.626476[/snapback] Newsflash, he's going down for perjury anyways
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] that's ridiculous so ron artest shouldn't be suspended? after all, the fan he attacked was non NBA personnel thats like saying (on a larger scale) that if you murdered some average joe, u don't get suspended 626473[/snapback] that's different. He did that in an NBA arena to a paying fan. If that was in a bar, he probably would have gotten suspended but only a few games because it's his personal life. Baseball however, never punishes people for their personal life and this is no different.
December 4, 200421 yr It isn't your personal life when it enhance the performance of your everyday job, now is it? And fine, drag his ass to jail instead. 626469[/snapback] But it wasn't against the law. Nobody has ever been arrested just for possession of steroids.626476[/snapback] What you really don't seem to understand is that it was. 626478[/snapback] Find one case where someone was arrested for possession of steroids?
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] that's ridiculous so ron artest shouldn't be suspended? after all, the fan he attacked was non NBA personnel thats like saying (on a larger scale) that if you murdered some average joe, u don't get suspended 626473[/snapback] That's not my point. That incident was as much in Franco's personal life as Bonds taking roids is, because they both affect what is happening on the field of play. 626475[/snapback] how does franky throwing a chair affect the field of play?
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] that's ridiculous so ron artest shouldn't be suspended? after all, the fan he attacked was non NBA personnel thats like saying (on a larger scale) that if you murdered some average joe, u don't get suspended 626473[/snapback] That's not my point. That incident was as much in Franco's personal life as Bonds taking roids is, because they both affect what is happening on the field of play. 626475[/snapback] how does franky throwing a chair affect the field of play? 626484[/snapback] He was unable to participate in future events, altering the talent on his team.
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] It took me awhile to realize you meant Frank Francisco. And no, it's not his personal life. He did it in the ballpark to a paying fan. If it was outside the park, no, MLB wouldn't punish him.
December 4, 200421 yr And no, it's not his personal life. He did it in the ballpark to a paying fan. If it was outside the park, no, MLB wouldn't punish him. 626486[/snapback] Actually morality clauses in contracts could probably get the contract voided if he was convicted for assault off the field...
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] It took me awhile to realize you meant Frank Francisco. And no, it's not his personal life. He did it in the ballpark to a paying fan. If it was outside the park, no, MLB wouldn't punish him. 626486[/snapback] Frankie Franco is my nickname for him. So we agree it affected what was happening on the field, then how is Bonds taking PERFORMANCE ALTERING STEROIDS not change his performance on the field? I'm failing to see this.
December 4, 200421 yr Just like if you get into a fight at a bar, MLB doesn't do anything, even though you can get arrested for that.626466[/snapback] Frankie Franco hit a fan with a chair. That's his personal life, because it was a fight with non-MLB personnel. He shouldn't be suspended. 626470[/snapback] It took me awhile to realize you meant Frank Francisco. And no, it's not his personal life. He did it in the ballpark to a paying fan. If it was outside the park, no, MLB wouldn't punish him. 626486[/snapback] Frankie Franco is my nickname for him. So we agree it affected what was happening on the field, then how is Bonds taking PERFORMANCE ALTERING STEROIDS not change his performance on the field? I'm failing to see this. 626490[/snapback] when he took them, it wasn't against the rules of the game. And he didn't take them in the middle of the field. So yes, it is his personal life. And no, they didn't make much of a difference to his performance
December 4, 200421 yr And no, they didn't make much of a difference to his performance 626494[/snapback] Yes they did Einstein. Steriods help better players more than crappy players. They make you inhumane, your muscle mass can grow two-fold, which increases your power, your bat speed and subsequently the time you have to wait on pitches. Obviously someone with great hand-eye coordination has alot more to pain from steriods than someone that doesn't. Barry was a great player but the steriods took him to a completely different level. How can you even hint that they had no effect? Do you have any proof at all that something else caused his record setting rampage at that stage in his career while on steriods???? Don't be hypocritical. Bonds is now and forever going to be known as a cheat, his legacy is tarnished. I'm happy for that, and everywhere you read about his baseball exploits you'll stumble on his steriod use.
December 4, 200421 yr I'm not too sure of this one yet. I'm about 60 percent no, 40 percent yes. For the record I support Pete Rose being inducted into the Hall, but I don't believe he should be allowed to manage again or anything. I would also support the Veterans' Committee inducting Shoeless Joe Jackson.
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