December 3, 200421 yr Should..he was great before the cream.... 626298[/snapback] No joke. He cemented his place in Cooperstown long before BALCO.
December 3, 200421 yr Pete Rose cemented his place in the hall before he gambled... 626316[/snapback] :lol Fair enough. I've just been punked. That being said - I also continue to believe that Rose belongs in Cooperstown. Incidentally, he's on every plaque in the freaking place. But he's not IN the hall... :mischief
December 3, 200421 yr This is a ridiculous poll..... Barry's achievements before this whole thing were Hall-worthy. Pete Rose was banned from baseball. The day Barry gets banned, you can compare the two. Until then, Barry is a unanimous first ballot Hall of Famer... No doubt about it.
December 3, 200421 yr Pete Rose cemented his place in the hall before he gambled... 626316[/snapback] :lol Fair enough. I've just been punked. That being said - I also continue to believe that Rose belongs in Cooperstown. Incidentally, he's on every plaque in the freaking place. But he's not IN the hall... :mischief 626317[/snapback] I believe that Pete Rose should be in the Hall, but until that day I don't believe that Barry or Giambi or anybody else found to be using roids should be either.
December 3, 200421 yr I don't think anyone who has been found cheating should be put into the hall, that includes corkers and the rest.
December 3, 200421 yr they have to let Shoeless Joe in there one day... 626324[/snapback] i absolutely agree i'm reading his biography right now, what a great player, and he wasn't really involved in the fix. He tried to tell Comiskey before the series, but he didn't listen since he's an a-hole. Then Joe went on to hit over .360 in the series and hit it's only home run. back to the topic. This is ridiculous. No doubt Barry deserves to get in. If he weren't on roids, he'd still be hitting AT LEAST 30 HR's per year, putting him over 500 and with one of the best gloves in the outfield for many years, plus his speed, no doubt he's first ballot.
December 3, 200421 yr Should he be in the hall? Ask yourself this question. When Barry retires, would his impact on the sport of baseball be positive or negative? Did he tainted the game like Rose did? Would people respect his records the way records from Ruth, Williams and others were respected? He doesn't bellong on the hall.
December 3, 200421 yr Ask yourself this question. When Barry retires, would his impact on the sport of baseball be positive or negative? 626334[/snapback] Ask yourself this question: Was LT's impact on football positive or negative? The man redefined the position of LB, terrorized the league for years, and forced offenses to scheme around him. He's also a convicted and recovering and convicted and recovering crack head. He still got to wear that pretty gold jersey when he had his moment in Canton...
December 3, 200421 yr Yes, but based solely on every season prior to any involvement with Greg Anderson and Conte. Also, they should have a huge display about his steroid use.
December 3, 200421 yr If he retires now, and everything from 2000 on (including MVPs) are whiped off the books, yes. But, since he's not going to do this, no.
December 3, 200421 yr I think I'm going to have to go with the Ty Cobb defense: I don't like Barry. I think he's a prick. He has the warmth of Antarctica. All of these things make him a REALLY easy target for villification. That being said, the HOF isn't about being a good person - it's about putting up ridiculously good numbers. Barry has done that. Pete Rose has done that. They both belong in the HOF. I don't care that Rose gambled. His gambling didn't get him 4000 hits. I don't care that Barry did roids [unbeknownst to him or otherwise]. His steroids didn't give him a career ba of .300, didn't steal 500 bags, and didn't walk him 2300 times. If you look at his career numbers before and after this BALCO nonsense, they are fairly consistant with the glaring exceptions of 2001's 73 hr season and this year's 232 walk season.
December 3, 200421 yr Pete Rose was great before gambling on the game, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. Barry Bonds was great before cheating by using steroids, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. They both don't belong in the hall, if anything, what Bonds did was worse than Rose, at least Rose (a) betted on his team to win AND (b) wasn't playing in the games he bet on.
December 3, 200421 yr Pete Rose was great before gambling on the game, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. Barry Bonds was great before cheating by using steroids, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. They both don't belong in the hall, if anything, what Bonds did was worse than Rose, at least Rose (a) betted on his team to win AND (b) wasn't playing in the games he bet on. 626395[/snapback] And his achievments were'nt unquestionable.
December 3, 200421 yr Pete Rose was great before gambling on the game, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. Barry Bonds was great before cheating by using steroids, doesn't mean he should be in the hall. They both don't belong in the hall, if anything, what Bonds did was worse than Rose, at least Rose (a) betted on his team to win AND (b) wasn't playing in the games he bet on. 626395[/snapback] And his achievments were'nt unquestionable. 626399[/snapback] That's the key.
December 3, 200421 yr And his achievments were'nt unquestionable. 626399[/snapback] Wait. Does that mean that his achievements WERE questionable? And whose achievements are we talking about here, Pete's or Barry's? I don't think you can question the achievements of either player.
December 3, 200421 yr It doesn't diminish anything he has done. Steroids don't give you the things that makes Bonds great: The quick swing, the patience at the plate, his eye for the ball. He was the best player in baseball before he took it, and he's still the best player after he stopped taking it. In fact, while every other athelete that has taken it has had their stats and skills drastically drop off after they stopped taking it, Bonds got better. THat right there is proof that steroids isn't the reason why he's that good. Also, it's not cheating if it's not against the rules and the majority of players do it. ANd it is likely that Bonds didn't know. While he is a health food freak and is reallty careful about what he puts into his body, most athletes do have people in their inner circle that would drink gasoline if they told them to. Anderson probably is one of those people with Bonds.
December 3, 200421 yr I believe Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame based on his numbers. But the Hall of Fame glorifies the game of baseball by telling the story as it happened. Tell it as it happened. Open an exhibit on the issue. Same goes with Pete Rose and a driking/gambling-effect-on-the-game exhibit. History should be told in a Hall of Fame. I feel baseball will handle this all properly in due time.
December 3, 200421 yr What Pete Rose did was much worse. The cardinal sin of baseball is betting on games you're involved in. Every clubhouse has something on the walls about it. THere has always been a rule that it's automatic lifetime banishment if someone is caught doing it. Pete ROse knew all that and did it anyways. Bonds didn't break any rules. MLB had no rules against doing it at the time.
December 4, 200421 yr And his achievments were'nt unquestionable. 626399[/snapback] Wait. Does that mean that his achievements WERE questionable? And whose achievements are we talking about here, Pete's or Barry's? I don't think you can question the achievements of either player. 626403[/snapback] Sorry, I was running out the door when I wrote that. What I mean is Barry's records could be completley bogus. Pete Rose didn't cheat to get hits.
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