Intangibles of Pierzinski

I don't even have to read your post and I know you're just blurting out nonsense.

 

Ain't that great the way I know what it says without even reading it?

653731[/snapback]

 

I am still trying to figure out what does this have to do with the topic regarding the Marlins being interested in Vazquez... dammit, and I read his entire post!!! :banghead It's giving me a headache, so I am giving up :bangdesk

Beinfest would be have to be stupid to turn down Vazquez for prospective free agent Burnett and Encarnacion's contract.

 

Although he has proven to be in the past.

653629[/snapback]

Dood, you don't get it. I will take an overrated Lo Duca who is a leader over Treanor and Willingham right now anyday as would any rational person. Choi was nice but he sorta just stopped producing during the middle of the season.

653633[/snapback]

ok, Lo Duca is better than Willy and Treanor.... but he aint better than Pierzynski(all things considered)

653638[/snapback]

Intangibles of Pierzinski

The LoDuca trade wasn't the only thing I was talking about. He has routinely paid too high of a price for a widely available commodity (league-average slap-hitters with questionable defense), chosen potential over production when it is clearly the interest of Loria/Samson is to win now, and mishandled the minor leagues and domestic scouting department.

 

Not to mention the fascination with former Marlins which has reached such a point that makes you wonder if the moves were intended to help the club or to show to fans their detest of the 97/98 firesale. Some of these deals have put the club in a situation that forces them to conduct their own fire sale each winter.

653649[/snapback]

 

I really dont understand why you dislike Beinfest so much. Please specify your examples here with actual names. Because I dont see where he has overpaid for these 'slap hitters with questionable defense'. Who exactly are you referring to?

 

Let's see...Brad Penny, Hee Seop Choi and Bill Murphy for Mota, Lo Duca and Enc. This deal has almost become a steal to anyone who can objectively look at this deal. Penny has some arm problems and who knows what will come of that, Choi has basically turned into that slap hitter you seem to disdain and Murphy is a prospect - he wouldnt be helping this team out in anyway if he was still here.

 

Lo Duca will enhance both offense and defense. Mota will be the closer or the best set up man in baseball (I bet the former) and Enc plays gold glove defense with very good speed and excellent power. If he puts it all together, we got a steal in RF until Hermida takes it over next season.

Enc plays gold glove defense with very good speed and excellent power.? If he puts it all together, we got a steal in RF until Hermida takes it over next season.

653843[/snapback]

 

Well, to be objective, we are actively trying to dump Juan, and the only reason he's back here is that we had to take his contract to get Lo Duca and Mota. Not that I don't want him (he's got enough power and speed to be a 20-20 guy), but he's not exactly making anyone in the organization do cartwheels.

Enc plays gold glove defense with very good speed and excellent power.? If he puts it all together, we got a steal in RF until Hermida takes it over next season.

653843[/snapback]

 

Well, to be objective, we are actively trying to dump Juan, and the only reason he's back here is that we had to take his contract to get Lo Duca and Mota. Not that I don't want him (he's got enough power and speed to be a 20-20 guy), but he's not exactly making anyone in the organization do cartwheels.

653846[/snapback]

 

That is true, finally.

 

I wondered why we brought him back last season after we let him go. Didnt make any sense unless the Marlins had realized they made a mistake. But, at the time, the deal gave us some flexibility (move Conine to 1B, Cabs to LF and Enc to RF).

 

But I agree that Enc is not all bad. He gives us something solid out there.

I also wonder if bringing in Vazquez (I still subscribe to Gammon's account that he didn't go to LA because it was too far away from PRand DePodesta understood that) might help in acquiring Delgado, both having homes in Puerto Rico. Just a thought.

653235[/snapback]

 

 

Marlins2003...I like your thinking! Vazquez's ties to the Loria regime along with Delgado's desire to be out of the AL East (how can even think of wasting away in Baltimore?) along with the PR connections have got me feeling good...

 

C'mon Beinfest...get it done!

 

:thumbup

653444[/snapback]

 

 

Just the opposite. If they deal for Vazquez I think that totally washes out any chance at Delgado. They 11-12 mil per year they are throwing at Delgado would not be available anymore with Vazquez on the payroll.

 

The ONLY WAY this could be plausible is if the D-Backs take Encarnacion AND Conine or Valdez in the deal as salary dumps and I don't see that happening unless we overpay grossly.

 

So...It's either Delgado or Vazquez...not both.

653467[/snapback]

 

again, if we lose enc and brunett we can have vazquez and delgado. Vazquez will come with cash so we'll save money from the 8.5 million owed to burnett and enc combined. So in the end what we wont see if delgado, vazquez, and burnett together

653473[/snapback]

 

Reread the article...Burnett's name isn't involved in this rumor...the whole point of this deal from the Marlins perspective is to add a good 5th starter(Valdez is average at best). Trading Burnett defeats the purpose.

653506[/snapback]

 

I actually read the article perfectly, and keeping burnet would be a huge mistake. Trading olsen would also be a mistake. Burnett wont be here for more than one year so this trade will be great if it includes burnett and enc and in return get vazquez and cash. We'll keep our prospects and lose burnett who we'll lose anyway after this year., but if we trade now we'll get value. Trading those two opens up space to sign delgado. Furthermore, vazquez is way above average. A tendency that people on this board have is that they think b/c someone has a bad year it means that they arent good. Those people were proven wrong with benitez last year. Vazquez was sick while with the expos, in fact he was arguably better than any of our pitchers. He has one bad year with the yankees in the AL east. Bring him to a pitchers park in the NL and he'll be way above average. In fact if we acquire vazquez hes defintely not our 5th starter. Assumign we keep burnett he'll be our third starter, if we trade burnett he'll be our second. Dont underrate vazquez, FO's like him for a reason.

Beinfest would be have to be stupid to turn down Vazquez for prospective free agent Burnett and Encarnacion's contract.

 

Although he has proven to be in the past.

653629[/snapback]

 

Exactly

I come to this website at LEAST 20 times per day during work . There are times where i would say wow we have some pretty knowlegable members on this site, and other times,LIKE NOW I think to myself what the hell am I doing wasting my time reading this crap. It's great to have opinions on both sides of an issue, It gives you alot more to think about . But when you keep pounding the LoDuca issue in a post that has nothing to do with him , it's frigging annoying. We have discussed this many times. lets not drag this crap into another thread.

Vazquez is said to be happy being a DBack. See the link.

 

Vazquez excited to be D-Back

By Scott Bordow, Tribune

Diamondbacks managing general partner Ken Kendrick on Tuesday night ended speculation that pitcher Javier Vazquez would seek a trade for family reasons.

 

Kendrick met with Vazquez and his representatives for 5 1/2 hours Monday and said the right-handed pitcher told him he wants to be a Diamondback.

 

?He's very excited about our team,? Kendrick said.

 

Earlier reports indicated Vazquez didn't want to pitch for a team on or near the West Coast because his in-laws live in Puerto Rico, and it would be easier for his wife to see her parents if Vazquez pitched for a team in the East.

 

Vazquez recently bought a home in New Jersey.

 

?We talked about that, and he knows it's going to be difficult,? Kendrick said. ?But he said they'll just have to deal with it.?

 

Vazquez will anchor a Diamondbacks rotation that includes newcomers Russ Ortiz and Shawn Estes, and third-year pro Brandon Webb.

 

The Diamondbacks are still in the market for another starter, and reportedly are interested in Oakland's Barry Zito, if he's available, or Florida's A.J. Burnett.

 

Kendrick said Arizona's pursuit of a center fielder and leadoff hitter could be consummated later this week. Among the possibilities: Eric Byrnes of the Oakland Athletics or the New York Mets' Mike Cameron.

I really dont understand why you dislike Beinfest so much. Please specify your examples here with actual names. Because I dont see where he has overpaid for these 'slap hitters with questionable defense'. Who exactly are you referring to?

 

Let's see...Brad Penny, Hee Seop Choi and Bill Murphy for Mota, Lo Duca and Enc. This deal has almost become a steal to anyone who can objectively look at this deal. Penny has some arm problems and who knows what will come of that, Choi has basically turned into that slap hitter you seem to disdain and Murphy is a prospect - he wouldnt be helping this team out in anyway if he was still here.

 

Lo Duca will enhance both offense and defense. Mota will be the closer or the best set up man in baseball (I bet the former) and Enc plays gold glove defense with very good speed and excellent power. If he puts it all together, we got a steal in RF until Hermida takes it over next season.

653843[/snapback]

First off, you're nuts to say LoDuca helps the defense. He's a passed ball waiting to happen. He's major downgrade over the defense we received from our 2002, 2003 and 2004 backstops.

 

Now I like Beinfest. Overall, he's done a bang-up job, but the moves he's made, successes and failures, suggest some disturbing trends. Most importantly, the focus on potential when the team is concentrating on winning now. As for names of slap hitters with questionable defense, try one player he traded for (LoDuca) and one player who he refuses to despite the interest in him far outgrowing his abilities (Pierre).

 

It's too early to analyze the trade. As it stands, it's a wash for both teams. Murphy got the Dodgers Steve Finley who led them to the NL West crown. The Marlins got Mota. Choi, who in his second full major league season had a higher OPS (a stat that credits singles 200% the value of a walk) than LoDuca or Encarnacion, gives the Dodgers a cheap productive hitter as they try to cut payroll. Penny was the most consistent and durable starter of the Marlins' big three. The Marlins got LoDuca (with a steep raise) and Encarnacion. Call me crazy, but I think the Dodgers look to get the better of this deal in the end.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

I think the Marlins got the better deal of talent they can have RIGHT NOW, but they have to pay for it, and when you are constricted by payroll it hurts.

If you start with a false premise you can prove almost anything.