you're really a dumbass tool phishphan.

 

go back to being a braves fan.

 

and then go here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...75&type=batting

 

and scroll all the way to the bottom where it says close and late which is obviously when it matters and check out D-Lee's stats for the last three years.

745649[/snapback]

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...78&type=batting

 

Go here and look at Carlos's and you tell me if you see a huge jump worth millions and millions of dollars over the next 4 years paying the guy until he is 36.

745663[/snapback]

 

It isnt just about stats. Stats dont say the whole story. Heck I dont know, maybe Delgado is a stat padder too but his name alone helps this team out so much more than DLee could.

745666[/snapback]

 

Well he brought them up, I just wanted to show him that 20 points in your average may not be worth how ever millions of dollars extra we paid Delgado than we could have paid D-Lee, not to mention the difference in defense.

 

All I know the 2004 Marlins offense was a lot like the 2003 Marlins offense, just minus D-Lee and Pudge, and look at the world of difference.

you're really a dumbass tool phishphan.

 

go back to being a braves fan.

 

and then go here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...75&type=batting

 

and scroll all the way to the bottom where it says close and late which is obviously when it matters and check out D-Lee's stats for the last three years.

745649[/snapback]

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...78&type=batting

 

Go here and look at Carlos's and you tell me if you see a huge jump worth millions and millions of dollars over the next 4 years paying the guy until he is 36.

745663[/snapback]

yeah they look pretty damn good to me.

 

you argue that we gave Carlos too lengthy of a contract but yet you wanted us to give Pudge what he wanted. You make no sense. Pudge demanded 4 years. If the FO gave it to him he would have been playing until he was 36 at CATCHER no less which is much more demanding than First Base.

 

You're all over the place with your criticism of the FO and it gets real old real fast. They ain't perfect but every front office makes mistakes.

PhishPhan

 

The 2004 Boston Red Sox and defense?

 

You already our horrible with analysis of your 'own' team, dont bring in other teams you know nothing about.

 

The achilles heel of that team was their defense.

 

Manny is probably in the top 5 for worst defensive outfielders.

 

The Sox couldnt turn a double play to save their lives last year.

 

Stick to bitching about the Marlins instead of making an even bigger ass of yourself, wait....that isnt possible.

 

You are the most worthless poster on this board and each time you post anyone who reads your crap, their IQ lowers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...78&type=batting

 

Go here and look at Carlos's and you tell me if you see a huge jump worth millions and millions of dollars over the next 4 years paying the guy until he is 36.

 

Let's go stat by stat then.

 

At bats: Lee 272, Delgado 206

Doubles: Lee 13, Delgado 11

Homers: Delgado 16, Lee 6

RBIs: Delgado 44, Lee 27

Ks: Delgado 57, Lee 81

Average: Delgado .272, Lee .246

OBP: Delgado .390, Lee .379

SLG: Delgado .558, Lee .375

 

Considering Delgado has 66 fewer at bats yet 10 more homers, 17 more RBIs, 24 less K's, and significant increaes in average and slugging percentage, yes, it is worth it.

you're really a dumbass tool phishphan.

 

go back to being a braves fan.

 

and then go here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...75&type=batting

 

and scroll all the way to the bottom where it says close and late which is obviously when it matters and check out D-Lee's stats for the last three years.

745649[/snapback]

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...78&type=batting

 

Go here and look at Carlos's and you tell me if you see a huge jump worth millions and millions of dollars over the next 4 years paying the guy until he is 36.

745663[/snapback]

yeah they look pretty damn good to me.

 

you argue that we gave Carlos too lengthy of a contract but yet you wanted us to give Pudge what he wanted. You make no sense. Pudge demanded 4 years. If the FO gave it to him he would have been playing until he was 36 at CATCHER no less which is much more demanding than First Base.

 

You're all over the place with your criticism of the FO and it gets real old real fast. They ain't perfect but every front office makes mistakes.

745676[/snapback]

 

But see that is where the problem with the FO lies, you pointed it out exactly. They didn't want to pay a catcher until he was 36, but they are okay with paying a first baseman MORE until he is 36. I think if they wanted to pay someone until they were 36 you go with the proven guy who was a spark plug on your way to a championship. Instead they went with an unproven guy in their park and in the NL and with their players, not knowing how he'd interact, for more money and just as long.

PhishPhan

 

The 2004 Boston Red Sox and defense?

745680[/snapback]

 

When did they get better? When they got rid of Nomar and got Doug M. at first, no?

you're really a dumbass tool phishphan.

 

go back to being a braves fan.

 

and then go here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...75&type=batting

 

and scroll all the way to the bottom where it says close and late which is obviously when it matters and check out D-Lee's stats for the last three years.

745649[/snapback]

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...78&type=batting

 

Go here and look at Carlos's and you tell me if you see a huge jump worth millions and millions of dollars over the next 4 years paying the guy until he is 36.

745663[/snapback]

yeah they look pretty damn good to me.

 

you argue that we gave Carlos too lengthy of a contract but yet you wanted us to give Pudge what he wanted. You make no sense. Pudge demanded 4 years. If the FO gave it to him he would have been playing until he was 36 at CATCHER no less which is much more demanding than First Base.

 

You're all over the place with your criticism of the FO and it gets real old real fast. They ain't perfect but every front office makes mistakes.

745676[/snapback]

 

But see that is where the problem with the FO lies, you pointed it out exactly. They didn't want to pay a catcher until he was 36, but they are okay with paying a first baseman MORE until he is 36. I think if they wanted to pay someone until they were 36 you go with the proven guy who was a spark plug on your way to a championship. Instead they went with an unproven guy in their park and in the NL and with their players, not knowing how he'd interact, for more money and just as long.

745695[/snapback]

First basemen normally have a longer "life" span than catchers do

 

so thats where the age fits in

But the thing about baseball is it is more than just hitting. You play defense too. If you lose meaning of words inside of a sentence I pity you.

 

The 2003 Marlins and the 2004 Red Sox were both teams with sound defenses. Having a 1b commit 3 errors in 11 games is not exactly the healthiest thing in the world. Carlos is better than D-Lee right not batting, but million and millions of dollars better? I don't know that. And will he still be better 4 years from now when he is 36? That might be stretching it.

 

First off, the 2004 Red Sox wouldn't know defense if it hit them in the face with a bloody sock.

 

Second, do you honestly expect Delgado to make 3 errors in 11 games for the rest of the season? Why, if you continue to stress that the offense will be fine, won't the defense be fine as well? Can't he just be rusty?

 

Over the course of an entire season, if Derrek Lee is worth 8 million (I think that's what he is getting), then Delgado is worth at least 12. LEE CANNOT HIT WHEN IT COUNTS. People that have actually watched this team for all the years of its existence know this.

PhishPhan

 

The 2004 Boston Red Sox and defense?

745680[/snapback]

 

When did they get better? When they got rid of Nomar and got Doug M. at first, no?

745697[/snapback]

It wasnt a huge improvement.

 

The O.C blew his first few weeks as he adjusted and Mientalphabet only played maybe one or at most 2 innings a game.

 

Defense was our worst attribute. But you would know better than someone who watched 150+ of their games last year.

 

But, good point you made. :plain

First basemen normally have a longer "life" span than catchers do

 

so thats where the age fits in

745698[/snapback]

 

1 year down and Pudge did very very good. He's thinned up, and started this year pretty solidly as well.

First basemen normally have a longer "life" span than catchers do

 

so thats where the age fits in

745698[/snapback]

 

1 year down and Pudge did very very good. He's thinned up, and started this year pretty solidly as well.

745708[/snapback]

everyone assumed his first 2 years would be good

 

its years 3 and 4 where he may bottom out

First basemen normally have a longer "life" span than catchers do

 

so thats where the age fits in

745698[/snapback]

 

1 year down and Pudge did very very good. He's thinned up, and started this year pretty solidly as well.

745708[/snapback]

His knees will catch up with him because he is a catcher.

 

Again, the first two years were never the problem.

It wasnt a huge improvement.

745707[/snapback]

 

Were they a WS team with Nomar and no Dougie M.?

It wasnt a huge improvement.

745707[/snapback]

 

Were they a WS team with Nomar and no Dougie M.?

745714[/snapback]

They were a WS team without Nomar and WITH the O.C.

 

The Nomar trade was more for morale and chemistry. Some of the guys on the team probably didnt even know Miejkhkshksdghfknbckdfk was on the team.

 

Mientalphabet was probably the smallest contributor on that team as he played an INNING A GAME.

 

Dont argue with me about the Red Sox you ass.

 

Someone could state that humans are mammals and you would argue that to the death. You are such a damn tool.

LEE CANNOT HIT WHEN IT COUNTS.

745705[/snapback]

 

Isn't it Bill Robinson's fault? At least a lot of people on here try to tell me the inability to hit when it matters is the hitting coach's fault.

LEE CANNOT HIT WHEN IT COUNTS.

745705[/snapback]

 

Isn't it Bill Robinson's fault? At least a lot of people on here try to tell me the inability to hit when it matters is the hitting coach's fault.

745731[/snapback]

Well, at least you're effectively admitting defeat.

 

Lee couldn't hit ever when it counts, even before Robinson got here :thumbup

You can't argue with someone who's premise is purposely based on a false assumption and ignores the realities of what transpired around it. It's a waste of time.

 

For example while it's true Delgado has committed three errors he purposely, with forethought simply to further his ugly rant, he ignores the fact that two of those errors were committed on one play.

 

Or that it was fiscally impossible for the Marlins to commit almost $65 million to Rodriguez and Lee in the beginning of 2004 with Hampton and Pudge still owed nearly $25 million over the next two years (see why Delgado and Leiter are playing for peanuts this year), or his false assumption that the LA trade didn't load up the team for a run at the playoffs last season when everyone knows the major reason the Marlins didn't have an honest chance to play in October was four hurricanes which burdened the team's schedule to the point where they had to play 31 games in 29 days not to mention playing "home games" in Chicago and exhausting the players.

 

So you guys can keep arguing with this hater or you come to your senses and ignore him. Make your own choice, I've made mine.

LEE CANNOT HIT WHEN IT COUNTS.

745705[/snapback]

 

Isn't it Bill Robinson's fault? At least a lot of people on here try to tell me the inability to hit when it matters is the hitting coach's fault.

745731[/snapback]

Well, at least you're effectively admitting defeat.

 

Lee couldn't hit ever when it counts, even before Robinson got here :thumbup

745741[/snapback]

 

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

You can't argue with someone who's premise is purposely based on a false assumption and ignores the realities of what transpired around it. It's a waste of time.

 

For example while it's true Delgado has committed three errors he purposely, with forethought simply to further his ugly rant, he ignores the fact that two of those errors were committed on one play.

 

Or that it was fiscally impossible for the Marlins to commit almost $65 million to Rodriguez and Lee in the beginning of 2004 with Hampton and Pudge still owed nearly $25 million over the next two years (see why Delgado and Leiter are playing for peanuts this year), or his false assumption that the LA trade didn't load up the team for a run at the playoffs last season when everyone knows the major reason the Marlins didn't have an honest chance to play in October was four hurricanes which burdened the team's schedule to the point where they had to play 31 games in 29 days not to mention playing "home games" in Chicago and exhausting the players.

 

So you guys can keep arguing with this hater or you come to your senses and ignore him. Make your own choice, I've made mine.

745745[/snapback]

And you sir, have made my early year prediction for Pwn of the year.

 

Good day.

You can't argue with someone who's premise is purposely based on a false assumption and ignores the realities of what transpired around it. It's a waste of time.

 

For example while it's true Delgado has committed three errors he purposely, with forethought simply to further his ugly rant, he ignores the fact that two of those errors were committed on one play.

 

Or that it was fiscally impossible for the Marlins to commit almost $65 million to Rodriguez and Lee in the beginning of 2004 with Hampton and Pudge still owed nearly $25 million over the next two years (see why Delgado and Leiter are playing for peanuts this year), or his false assumption that the LA trade didn't load up the team for a run at the playoffs last season when everyone knows the major reason the Marlins didn't have an honest chance to play in October was four hurricanes which burdened the team's schedule to the point where they had to play 31 games in 29 days not to mention playing "home games" in Chicago and exhausting the players.

 

So you guys can keep arguing with this hater or you come to your senses and ignore him. Make your own choice, I've made mine.

745745[/snapback]

 

They are still paying Hampton and Pudge this year, much like last year, but they were able to sign Delgado and Al, as well as guys for the pen. Loria said he lost money last year, so if anything he had less money this year than starting 2004. To say it was impossible to sign Pudge and Lee to start 2004 versus signing everyone they did this year to start 2005 makes me scratch my head since Loria says he has less money this year than last year, if anything he should have cut payroll if he is sturggling financially so much.

 

Truth of the matter is, the FO took a gamble, decided D-Lee and Pudge were good pieces, but the Marlins could do things without them, and they didn't.

 

And once again, a fan on here blames something other than the players, coaches, umps, etc. etc. etc. Just another thing to hang everything on.

LEE CANNOT HIT WHEN IT COUNTS.

745705[/snapback]

 

Isn't it Bill Robinson's fault? At least a lot of people on here try to tell me the inability to hit when it matters is the hitting coach's fault.

745731[/snapback]

Well, at least you're effectively admitting defeat.

 

Lee couldn't hit ever when it counts, even before Robinson got here :thumbup

745741[/snapback]

 

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

745750[/snapback]

sorry it had to come to this but... YOU ARE A f***ING MORON.

 

listen dude. Derrek Lee does not hit when it counts. This isnt being biased. This is from what I have seen and mostly everyone else here. When you were celebrating NL East title #11, you must have missed DLee not driving in runs when it matters. So shut the f*** up, you really are out of your element here.

 

sorry I had to use such language. My apologies to the children and Passion.

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

 

What did he do as a Marlin, before he hit in a hitter's park behind two feared hitters and one of the best hitting third baseman in baseball?

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

 

What did he do as a Marlin, before he hit in a hitter's park behind two feared hitters and one of the best hitting third baseman in baseball?

745770[/snapback]

 

Won a World Series.

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

 

What did he do as a Marlin, before he hit in a hitter's park behind two feared hitters and one of the best hitting third baseman in baseball?

745770[/snapback]

 

Won a World Series.

745773[/snapback]

You are a lost cause.

D-Lee:

 

2005:

Runners on- .300/.609/.933

RISP- .667/.800/1.333

RISP w/ 2 out- .500/.667/.750

 

2004:

Runners on- .302/.387/.550

RISP- .276/.382/.531

RISP w/ 2 out- .230/.427/.410

Bases load- .357/.333/.929

 

If you get the hits that matter early there is no "close and late". :thumbup

 

What did he do as a Marlin, before he hit in a hitter's park behind two feared hitters and one of the best hitting third baseman in baseball?

745770[/snapback]

 

Won a World Series.

745773[/snapback]

So did the FO.