Florida Marlins and steroids

[rferry]

At some point it will be revealed that a current Marlin at the major or minor league level is using. It's important that we don't bastardize that player, however large or small his contributions have been or may be. Playing baseball is a stressful job that destroys your body and affects all possible relationships you may have once had or will have in the future. The rewards one receives from the game are great, greater than most 20-somethings could ever attain. We won't know why they 'cheated', if they knew they did, or even if they did given the error rates of the test. Much like the Ramon Castro rape case or certain player's feuds with management, we won't know much of anything. To assume any of us do would be a mistake. For the sake of the players and the already poor reputation of the Marlins' fan base, let's not make too big of a deal out of any Marlin suspended. It will just alienate the player and his friends and teammates from the fans and the team. He'll feel no support from fans, the very people he may have been seeking attention from, and may not fully commit himself to cleaning himself up. Like the players' initial usage, nothing positive can come out of it. You sour your reputation, the players' and the team's.

[Ramp]

great post but you are in dream land if you dont think that will happen

[rferry]

If the established members set the tone, the general membership will follow.

[nc marlin]

If the established members set the tone, the general membership will follow.

764719[/snapback]

I don't think so. They don't usually do so.

 

Awesome post though.

[Ramp]

If the established members set the tone, the general membership will follow.

764719[/snapback]

:lol

 

how long have you been a member here for?

[Craig]

I'm suspecious of 3B #19......

 

That's all I'm saying.

[nc marlin]

I'm suspecious of 3B #19......

 

That's all I'm saying.

764728[/snapback]

nobody cares what you think.

 

this isn't a witch hunt thread.

[WildMarlinMan2003]

I'm suspecious of 3B #19......

 

That's all I'm saying.

764728[/snapback]

 

 

I thought about Lowell being on for a while. I doubt it because of his body type but who knows.

[miguelcabrera2420]

His body type is much like Palmeiro for the Baltimore and he was accused. I dont think Lowell would mess with that.

 

But......Who really knows anymore.

[TSwift25]

I really doubt anyone is using them, but after seeing Rincon and Sanchez test positive (two guys whom I'd never have guessed used them), I think anything is possible.

 

This is irrelevant, but the Marlins were tested during S.T., and since then, nothing has been announced so I'm pretty sure that all our Major Leaguers are clean. And regarding Lowell, I don't think it's fair to accuse someone who's slumping of 'roiding...if that's the case, then a whole lot of perennial power guys (Helton, Thome, Posada, etc) are pushed under the proverbial bus, and I'm willing to give almost anyone who's made it this far, and played well with consistency, the benefit of the doubt.

[rferry]

TSwift,

There were a ratio of 4 ballplayers for each Cactus League team. Only a handful have been announced from the Grapefruit League testing. When the full list is announced, chances are one of them will be a Marlin.

[Stag5]

I think we have some players that may have dabbled. Better check the DL list for a trio of relievers. :whistle

 

The trouble years for the Marlins was 1998/1999.

 

Bonilla, Sheff, Floyd, Millar, Renteria, Preston, Darensburg, Dempster, Edmondson, Mantei, Jay Powell...shall I go on?

 

Someone ask John Boles what issue the players felt he could not relate to having never payed the game. Someone ask John Boles about the arms he was trying to save.

[TSwift25]

TSwift,

There were a ratio of 4 ballplayers for each Cactus League team. Only a handful have been announced from the Grapefruit League testing. When the full list is announced, chances are one of them will be a Marlin.

764767[/snapback]

 

I was under the impression that with the Twins and Tigers testings (Sanchez was tested as a Tiger) already being made "public" that the Marlins and other Grapefruit league teams had "passed" their tests, because what do they do, have a press release saying that no one on the Marlins tested positive? That just sends the wrong message.

 

I don't think this steroid thing is as widespread an epidemic as others would have you believe, and even if it is, you have to think that the quality of steroid used would make it almost undetectable to urine tests.

[Guest FlummoxedLummox]

At some point it will be revealed that a current Marlin at the major or minor league level is using. It's important that we don't bastardize that player, however large or small his contributions have been or may be. Playing baseball is a stressful job that destroys your body and affects all possible relationships you may have once had or will have in the future. The rewards one receives from the game are great, greater than most 20-somethings could ever attain. We won't know why they 'cheated', if they knew they did, or even if they did given the error rates of the test. Much like the Ramon Castro rape case or certain player's feuds with management, we won't know much of anything. To assume any of us do would be a mistake. For the sake of the players and the already poor reputation of the Marlins' fan base, let's not make too big of a deal out of any Marlin suspended. It will just alienate the player and his friends and teammates from the fans and the team. He'll feel no support from fans, the very people he may have been seeking attention from, and may not fully commit himself to cleaning himself up. Like the players' initial usage, nothing positive can come out of it. You sour your reputation, the players' and the team's.

764706[/snapback]

 

I appreciate your instructions on how to think, but no thanks. First of all, nobody except the proposed moron who took steroids did anything to his reputation. Saying my criticism of him tarnishes his reputation is a bit ridiculous. The whole point of the steroid policy that MLB has initiated is to PUBLICIZE the infraction and release the individual's name. Fans losing respect for the player is part of the deterrent within the system. If I wanna lambast somebody because they CHEATED, I'll bloody well do so.

 

It's one thing to have been caught doping before the new agreement was made, because up to that point steroids weren't necessarily banned from the sport (though they were prohibited by the US government, and therefore illegal!!!). But to say that anyone "accidentally" took steroids after the new policy is in place is preposterous. It has been all over the news, and congress has called a special session that was nationally televised which dealt exclusively with steroids in MLB. You would think that a player would be absolutely sure he put nothing in his body that the policy forbid.

 

I pay money to see him play and in turn help pay his enormous salary. Meanwhile he's selling me a false image of a falsely talented player, and by doing so he becomes priveleged beyond anything I can ever dream. So I'm sorry to say that I won't support someone who attained something that I used to dream about doing since being a child, after he artificially changed his body chemistry to beable to do it. I won't pat the person on the back and tell him that it's alright that he broke the rules and that I'm behind him, because it's not alright and I'm not gonna say that it is. To not have any expectations of anybody, and to let it be known that it's ok to attain a goal through deceit and unethical behavior, is much worse than criticizing him.

[Iowa]

this isn't a witch hunt

764729[/snapback]

Thank you

[Shaq-Man]

For the sake of the players and the already poor reputation of the Marlins' fan base, let's not make too big of a deal out of any Marlin suspended. It will just alienate the player and his friends and teammates from the fans and the team. He'll feel no support from fans, the very people he may have been seeking attention from, and may not fully commit himself to cleaning himself up.

As a guy who has loved ones with actual substance abuse problems, I have to say I find it laughable that you'd even begin to compare an athlete's anabolic steroid use to a typical drug addiction that requires support from others.

 

An athlete who knowingly takes anabolic steroids (and thus must 'commit' to "cleaning himself up") uses them for the purpose of giving himself a physical advantage (cheating); he doesn't use them to get high, as regular people with drug addictions do.

 

Personally, I don't mind your agenda regarding whether steroids in baseball are a big deal, whether steroids help baseball players (as you've questioned), and whether steroids are even harmful (again, as you've questioned). But I'd rather you not preach to us about being supportive on a message board if/when one of our guys tests positive. You're essentially lecturing people on how they ought to react to things.

 

Oh, and if the objective is for the player to "clean himself up," I'd imagine the public's criticism could only help. It would certainly be more effective than the "hey, so what if you cheated--we support you anyway! :cool " approach.

[jackarmstrong]

At some point it will be revealed that a current Marlin at the major or minor league level is using. It's important that we don't bastardize that player, however large or small his contributions have been or may be. Playing baseball is a stressful job that destroys your body and affects all possible relationships you may have once had or will have in the future. The rewards one receives from the game are great, greater than most 20-somethings could ever attain. We won't know why they 'cheated', if they knew they did, or even if they did given the error rates of the test. Much like the Ramon Castro rape case or certain player's feuds with management, we won't know much of anything. To assume any of us do would be a mistake. For the sake of the players and the already poor reputation of the Marlins' fan base, let's not make too big of a deal out of any Marlin suspended. It will just alienate the player and his friends and teammates from the fans and the team. He'll feel no support from fans, the very people he may have been seeking attention from, and may not fully commit himself to cleaning himself up. Like the players' initial usage, nothing positive can come out of it. You sour your reputation, the players' and the team's.

764706[/snapback]

 

in my view, the steroid question transcends team loyalty. any marlins player, be it at the major or minor league level, deserves the same level of criticism as if he played for the yankees or braves.

[MarlinFan10]

Any player who uses steriods deserves to be criticized harshly, no matter how hard life playing baseball is. That's sorta why they get paid millions.

[Guest markotsay7]

This sounds like rferry knows something :\

[MarlinsChik305]

Do you know something we dont know?

Seriously, no matter if hes a great contributer, Encarnacion, or a quaint contribution, like Lenny Harris, people are going to go bonkers if that were to happen. Fans see Barry Bonds differently after the "rumors" revealed themselves. Any accomplishment they made was dismissed because it seems they only got to that point because of the use of steroids. And face it, we do not have the most dedicated and hard core fans out there. One little thing, like a loosing streak looses a great bit of fans. Something like a player under the influence of steroids will cause them to even burn their Marlins hats. Im not sure wether id bash them or not, but I certainly wouldnt be behind that player.

[Guest Fritz]

If the established members set the tone, the general membership will follow.

764719[/snapback]

I don't think so. They don't usually do so.

 

Awesome post though.

764722[/snapback]

That pretty much sums it up. The junior members of the site will crucify that player when he comes around.

[Ralph]

I'm suspecious of 3B #19......

 

That's all I'm saying.

764728[/snapback]

 

I definitely know a guy like Mike who beat cancer would not even go near steroids for health reasons.

[The_Punisher]

I can't amagine any of our Marlins in the Major League level doing steroids.

[rferry]

Shaq_Man, my opinion of the steroids hoopla is directly related to my belief in personal rights and fact-based analysis. Say what you will about the relation to narcotics, but they are related. On the treatment end where a career baseball player's entire self-worth is defined by his physical prowess and must come to terms with its limits imposed by natural and legal forces. Also when it comes to stamping out the problem, users will come and go, but suppliers will always be the source of the problem. Nothing Congress or MLB can do to prevent steroids among youth or its own players without taking a stand against the suppliers. A player that did not question his trainer/coach/agent/translator/guardian that he's known since he was 10 in the Dominican shouldn't be at fault.

 

We won't know the player's stories. We won't know anything. I understand that the player-fan relationship is strained. You can hear it in the tone of any fan calling into a radio/TV program. Large contracts have made players seek more private lives off the job and teams imposing more protection, which has led fans to feel disconnected from players. Ticket prices, autograph session fees and work stoppages have contributed. Add in the changing era of baseball and fans are questioning if this game they grew up on. Those same fans who have newspaper columns or TV air time, fawn over the simplier of times recalling the rare great feats and character of many ballplayers who were every bit as crooked as the worst of recent times. Leaving us with a twisted reflection of the current game and its players.

 

All I ask is that you use caution. Nothing we can do can help. Leave it to the player and those close to him to come to grips with the new reality. If you care to take a stand against steroids, hate the game not the playa as they say.

[Guest FlummoxedLummox]

If the established members set the tone, the general membership will follow.

764719[/snapback]

I don't think so. They don't usually do so.

 

Awesome post though.

764722[/snapback]

That pretty much sums it up. The junior members of the site will crucify that player when he comes around.

765054[/snapback]

 

First of all, to say that just because I don't have as many posts as you, or haven't been a member as long, that I'm less of a fan or need to be told how to think by "senior members" is highly highly insulting. You imply that my opinion as a "junior member" is less valid, which is also highly insulting. You wanna hear something interesting? I've been thinking on my own for quite some time now (*gasp* before I ever came to MB.com), and miraculously, I've been able to do so just fine without the "senior membership" of marlinsbaseball.com guiding my every step and opinion. So leave your "holier-than-thou" "bow-down-to-my-post-count" attitude out of this.

 

EDIT: I care just as much about the team and the players as you do. I just don't like to root for someone under the false pretenses of artificial perfromance.