I dont necessarily think it's a skill, and that players are born with being a clutch hitter (although I think there are some...Reggie Jackson..October). I think though, that if a player gets a hit in a tight situation, it is not necessarily a fluke, luck, or just that his batting average, OPS or whatever suggested he would get a hit. I think clutch hits are due to a person rising to the occasion...whether it's adrenaline, or that they had been holding back (or pacing themselves) and put forth total concentration for that one at bat, or what...i think clutch hitting is a real thing.

Reggie Jackson hit for the same average in the playoffs that he did in the regular season...Did he rise to the occastion or just hit at his skill level? I don't know I'm not as good as downrodeo at arguing logically, but I still encourage you to research it....

Odom has a point though. Downrodeo, if Lee was batting .800 with bases loaded, you would be all over it. So would you Wild Card. The fact is, you Lee-lovers tried to show how well he was doing in certain situations of RISP in another thread. I shot it down based on how few ABs that is. Fact - Lee is a worse hitter when guys are on base. Pudge is leading the league with a .400+ AVG with RISP. Lowell is a better hitter when there are runners on base. These are the guys you keep around. Lee is hardly irreplaceable. That is a fact.

 

Now, two things. I am glad you compared Lee's stats to Thome's stats (overall), because I thought before teh season began Thome was overrated and over-priced. I wanted to compare the two to show a) that Lee is not as bad as some would have you think, and b) that Thome is not as good as some would have you think. You can make an argument that Lee is the best 1B in our division...and it seems you are intending that. Not much argument from me about that.

 

Having said that, Wild Card, I got to call you out on one more thing. How can you compare Thome's AVG with RISP (.277) with Lee's (.248) and say there isnt that much of a difference??!! That is 29 points lower! Sure, out of a hundred ABs, that means roughly 2-3 less hits from Lee. But if it were that simple, .250 batters would be in the same category as .280 hitters. Also, look at the RBI difference - 45 to 36. That is 9 more RBI from Thome, production that could potentially netted us 9 more wins. Now, I am not someone who believes stats so much, but I am hesitant to say that there really isnt that much difference between Thome and Lee with RISP. I think that is generalizing it too.

:thumbup

Has a great night. Hit with RISP again.

 

I just wanted to point out something very unigue, and intiguing, that I think some D-Lee haters might find suprising.

 

Jim Thome: . 269 BA, 27 HR's, . 386 OBP, . 557 Slug., . 944 OPS, 0 SB's

 

Derrek Lee: . 267 BA, 22 HR's, . 374 OBP, . 504 Slug., 878 OPS, 16 SB's

 

Those are some pretty comparable stats...

DLee must have heard us DLee haters and now wants to make us eat crow :lol :plain

Odom has a point though. Downrodeo, if Lee was batting .800 with bases loaded, you would be all over it.

 

100% wrong, not true. I don't give a hoot about stats like BA with RISP, BA with bases loaded, BA in close and late situations, etc. The whole point I have been trying to make is that these numbers are taken from such a small sample size and change so drastically from year to year that their significance is minimal. The only reason I point them out is because many posters make blanket statements like "Lee chokes hit in the clutch" when there is very little evidence to support such a claim (except the 3 or 4 bad at-bats they remember in their minds).

 

Meanwhile, in the most important series of the season, Derrek has gone 6 for 7. Of course, to me this doesn't indicate much of anything. Andy Fox could've started the first two games in this series and may have gone 6 for 7 too. It's just 7 at-bats. BUT, when Lee went 0 for 8 in the Atlanta series, numerous posters on this board once again bemoaned Lee's lack of clutch hitting. It's a double standard, and it's not a good way to be judging players.

amen downrodeo.

How can you compare Thome's AVG with RISP (.277) with Lee's (.248) and say there isnt that much of a difference??!! That is 29 points lower! Sure, out of a hundred ABs, that means roughly 2-3 less hits from Lee. But if it were that simple, .250 batters would be in the same category as .280 hitters.

 

You're making an unfair comparison. Assuming you're looking at two established players, the difference between a career .250 hitter and a career .280 is a whole lot more than 2-3 at-bats, so the argument that the .280 hitter is better holds some merit. But we are not looking at career stats. We're looking at about 100 at-bats. And the difference between a .280 hitter and a .250 over 100 at-bats is almost nothing (a conclusion you yourself came to but didn't take seriously, probably because it didn't support your argument).

 

Besides, no intelligent baseball fan would automatically assume a .280 hitter is better than a .250 hitter. Last season Andruw Jones hit .264 and Todd Walker hit .299. How many intelligent baseball fans would tell you Todd Walker was the better hitter?

You dont have any aspirations to GM do you DR??