June 13, 200521 yr D Lee + Pudge > Delgado + Lo Duca 807569[/snapback] 15,666,667 > 8,660,993 You can always think about it that way :thumbup 807708[/snapback] I dont understand those numbers 807743[/snapback] I believe those are the combined 2005 salaries of D-Lee/Pudge and Delgado/Lo Duca. 807781[/snapback] Yes, they are. 807790[/snapback] my bad, I forgot about deferred strategies
June 13, 200521 yr Over/under for how many more times we have this argument over the next four years is 82 Personally I like the left-handed bat in the lineup. I really think it does make a big difference. Lee is one hell of a ball player. The Marlins could not afford him at the time. It sucks, but was something that had to be done. It happens, but the front office went out when they did have the money and got a pretty damn good replacement. I'm definitely not complaining.
June 13, 200521 yr But... D Lee < Delgado 2003 team's talent < 2005 team's talent 807693[/snapback] True, but obviously Pudge > Lo Duca. Plus Lee can steal bases and is a far better defensive first baseman than Delgado. I would never say I'd prefer Lee over Delgado but certainly would prefer the tandem of Lee & Pudge 807758[/snapback] Yep. Just making a statement on how many view certain players of the 2003 team. It wasn't an all-star cast. They had their lumps. Many of the same offensive, backend rotation and bullpen problems we have now and had in 2004. Cabrera was not solid in the outfield, Pudge would have hit into 10 more DPs had it not been for hit & run attempts and Urbina wasn'y any less shaky than Looper.
June 13, 200521 yr D Lee + Pudge > Delgado + Lo Duca 807569[/snapback] 15,666,667 > 8,660,993 You can always think about it that way :thumbup 807708[/snapback] I dont understand those numbers 807743[/snapback] I believe those are the combined 2005 salaries of D-Lee/Pudge and Delgado/Lo Duca. 807781[/snapback] When you add in Leiter they are just about equal. What a steal he was. Lee+Pudge>Delgado + LoDuca + (-Leiter) 15,666,667>15,660,993
June 13, 200521 yr When you add in Leiter they are just about equal. What a steal he was. Lee+Pudge>Delgado + LoDuca + (-Leiter) 15,666,667>15,660,993 807976[/snapback] i'm not really sure of leiter's relevance in the argument.
June 13, 200521 yr When you add in Leiter they are just about equal. What a steal he was. Lee+Pudge>Delgado + LoDuca + (-Leiter) 15,666,667>15,660,993 807976[/snapback] i'm not really sure of leiter's relevance in the argument. 807998[/snapback] He has none whatsoever. I think Delgado would have signed here without Al's influence in the process. It surely couldn't have been enough to sway Delgado's decision. And Maverick.....they're cool in the beginning of the contract, ain't they
June 13, 200521 yr it's a hell of a lot closer than it would've been last year, no doubt about that. I'd still take Delgado because the offensive numbers are the norm, not just a "breakout" year. DLee may very well go on to put up these kinds of #s every season, who knows. But Delgado has had those seasons every year.
June 13, 200521 yr For how long had the Marlins longed for that lefty power? They traded Lee for what they thought was a left handed power hitter, and that didnt work out. When another came available they pounced, Delgado has been everything the Marlins expected. I think they made the right calls both times, it was just unfortunate that Choi didnt work out - even so they did get something for him!
June 13, 200521 yr For how long had the Marlins longed for that lefty power? They traded Lee for what they thought was a left handed power hitter, and that didnt work out. When another came available they pounced, Delgado has been everything the Marlins expected. I think they made the right calls both times, it was just unfortunate that Choi didnt work out - even so they did get something for him! 808045[/snapback] since Uncle Cliffy left
June 13, 200521 yr For how long had the Marlins longed for that lefty power? They traded Lee for what they thought was a left handed power hitter, and that didnt work out. When another came available they pounced, Delgado has been everything the Marlins expected. I think they made the right calls both times, it was just unfortunate that Choi didnt work out - even so they did get something for him! 808045[/snapback] How did Choi not work out?
June 13, 200521 yr For how long had the Marlins longed for that lefty power? They traded Lee for what they thought was a left handed power hitter, and that didnt work out. When another came available they pounced, Delgado has been everything the Marlins expected. I think they made the right calls both times, it was just unfortunate that Choi didnt work out - even so they did get something for him! 808045[/snapback] Yup. Two years of Encarnacion. Let's hope Enc can make the bad memories go away.
June 13, 200521 yr All I meant was that they traded him for what they needed at the time, not that Choi didnt perform.
June 14, 200521 yr Derrek Lee does not strike fear into an opposing pitcher when he walks into a batter's box like Carlos Delgado does. Ignoring the clutch factor because I don't feel like arguing with the SABRs, Delgado seems to come through alot more than anyone else right now. Also, I don't ever recall Derrek Lee taking an offense on his back like Delgado has done. On defense, sure Lee has Delgado. However, Carlos has alredy proven that he is a leader. He and Lo Duca called a players only meeting to try to let cooler heads prevail during the losing streak, I don't think DLee would have done that. I don't think DLee would have been the standout face of this organization, or even the standout face of this lineup. No knocking DLee, but Delgado's more worth his money. 807744[/snapback] Tough to argue with anyone who seems to have such grand intuition like you. Anyone ever bother to check the park factor difference between Wrigley and PPS? We know PPS is much tougher on HRs, but I'd like to see someone actually post some numbers than to spout out feelings or proclimations without backup. 807788[/snapback] I did a post on this a way back, one second.
June 14, 200521 yr Side Note: Every single one of DLee's homers have been to Left Center and Dead Center, where JRS is clearly more expanisve than Wrigley. By looking at the chart, I would give an educational guess that with everything else being the same (remember pitches and such would change in parks, lineups, etc.) DLee would add one homer to his total (double to left that is out in JRS) and would subtract five homers from his total to left center and center combined as they'd be farther in JRS. This is only on distance, this isn't considering our wall is significantly larger than the wall in Left Center in Wrigley, causing any line drive homers he hit to Wrigley also not to go out. So a net loss of four homers based only on distance. Just for fun, I also looked at Delgado's shots in JRS to compare to Wrigley. Carlos has hit 5 homers in JRS, all of which would easily tower out in Wrigley Field based on distance. However, like I did with DLee, I also looked at fly outs and doubles (neither has a triple at home) to see how many of those would go out in the other stadium. Lee gained a homer in JRS (though he lost 5), and by my calculations Delgado loses none of his 5 and adds an extra 5 homers if he played at Wrigley. These numbers are based solely on distance and not on ball trajectory, which would affect DLee's numbers negatively if he hit line drive homers to Left Center. So, in short, 2005 at home: DLee in JRS: -4 Homers Delgado in Wrigley: +5 homers This, of course, is based on numbers up to the post date (June 2nd). I can redo the numbers if you'd like.
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