How much of an impact do you guys think Bill Robinson has on hitters? Personally, I think very little. These are grown men who have played baseball for YEARS. Most of the learning they needed they recieved when they were first picking up the game. Do I defend Robby or think hes a good coach? Hell no. But dont expect him to be fired and our offense to start hitting .300 He was a minor impact on our hitting. Major league hitters need to focus more on the information that scouts give them for scouting reports on pitchers. Should Robinson be fired? Yes, but I dont think hes the central reason to our offensive woes. Hitting coaches help 'polish' up hitters IMO than really schooling them.

This team has absolutely no heart. I feel it is mostly Jacks fault. He has them playing with no intensity and drive. Either Jack rallies this team like he did in 2003 or other options should be taken.

Hiring a new manager midway through the season can sometimes lift a team up. Look what it did to us in 03 and Houston in 04. Id love to have a Mike Tice like spirit in the clubhouse, someone who could get the adrenaline running through our team. While I like niether as a long term solution as manager, Bobby Valentine and Admin Bowa could both shake up the team, IMO.

Theres no heart,hustle, or motivation on this team. Their spirits are way down, and the intensity Ive gotten used to seeing from this team is waaay down.

Trading away Pierre Enc, etc solves nothing. This is the kind of hitter Juan has always been/will be, so theres no shocker there. Pierrre is a great player with tremendous ethic who I think will turn it around. Lowell is disastrous, but trading him isint an option. I dont expect a big move to happen, but it is not needed. This team has INCREDIBLE talent, enough to go all the way. The problem lies with McKeon. Hes drastically underachieving with this team, reports are players dont like his style anymore, and he doest have them motivated. You cant grant him immunity because of 2003. He did great, yes, but this is a buisiness, an organization, not a man. The powers that be must do whatever it takes to remain competitive for the sake of their players and fans. And if that means canning a manager, then so be it

Thank you for saying what I mostly agree with. Take a look at my other thread "Marlins Baseball 2005: This is crap." Pretty much, with a few exceptions, we are kind of on the same page. Instead of Bowa or Valentine, I would go with a Tony Pena or Davey Lopes type. They can also be long term solutions. I feel like you when it comes to Lowell and Pierre. I'd personally like to see their performance under another manager before I throw them under the bus. Unlike many Marlins fans now, I've had a problem with what Jack was doing since early 2004 when I saw that his strategical changes were not working. I realized fast that he lucked his way into the championship and rode Ozzie Guillen's back. Now, it's a time for change. It seems that many people feel that these players have no heart, but I think that many of them have a track record that show that they do. I think that we can throw the theory that they may be latest sports team to tank it in order to force a change of coaching pesonnel. No matter what line of thinking that anyone has, it is clear that a change is needed to make everything happy in Marlins land again.

 

On another note, who would have ever thought that the Marlins and Heat on-field issues would be the talk of the town over the Dolphins?

I dunno about them tanking though. Your on your own on that one.

How much of an impact do you guys think Bill Robinson has on hitters? Personally, I think very little. These are grown men who have played baseball for YEARS. Most of the learning they needed they recieved when they were first picking up the game. Do I defend Robby or think hes a good coach? Hell no. But dont expect him to be fired and our offense to start hitting .300 He was a minor impact on our hitting. Major league hitters need to focus more on the information that scouts give them for scouting reports on pitchers. Should Robinson be fired? Yes, but I dont think hes the central reason to our offensive woes. Hitting coaches help 'polish' up hitters IMO than really schooling them.

? ? This team has absolutely no heart. I feel it is mostly Jacks fault. He has them playing with no intensity and drive. Either Jack rallies this team like he did in 2003 or other options should be taken.

? ? Hiring a new manager midway through the season can sometimes lift a team up. Look what it did to us in 03 and Houston in 04. Id love to have a Mike Tice like spirit in the clubhouse, someone who could get the adrenaline running through our team. While I like niether as a long term solution as manager, Bobby Valentine and Admin Bowa could both shake up the team, IMO.

? ? ? Theres no heart,hustle, or motivation on this team. Their spirits are way down, and the intensity Ive gotten used to seeing from this team is waaay down.

? ? ? Trading away Pierre Enc, etc solves nothing. This is the kind of hitter Juan has always been/will be, so theres no shocker there. Pierrre is a great player with tremendous ethic who I think will turn it around. Lowell is disastrous, but trading him isint an option. I dont expect a big move to happen, but it is not needed. This team has INCREDIBLE talent, enough to go all the way. The problem lies with McKeon. Hes drastically underachieving with this team, reports are players dont like his style anymore, and he doest have them motivated. You cant grant him immunity because of 2003. He did great, yes, but this is a buisiness, an organization, not a man. The powers that be must do whatever it takes to remain competitive for the sake of their players and fans. And if that means canning a manager, then so be it

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I think that a majority of people will disagree with that statement. I veiw enc at this point as a cancer in the clubhouse. he biatches when he is benched in favor of steve and he has no concept of the word team. I refer you to the lolly-gagger speach in Bull durham. He appitamizes that speach.

 

I know I am guilty of it too and I am making a concerted effort to not do it anymore but does anyone else realize how easy it is to get drug down in this whole "FIRE MCKEON" talk all the time. I am not going to ever type though words again unless we win four in a row and then lose two in a row to a very decent team. Then i shall want his head again.

Im not "calling for his head"

 

To an extent, we underachived(sp) last year. We certainly are underacherving this year. A decision should be made if Jack should coach this team for the rest of the year. I feel a change would be a fresh breath of air and could be a sparkplug.

There is something wrong with this team, and that observation can't be ignored.

 

Whether it's simply that they've gotten too comfortable with losing, because after all BOTH winning and losing are contagious, I can't say. But clearly they aren't having fun out there, even when they're winning.

 

So what do you do? Well I'm on record as saying Lowell ought to be benched, but that isn't going to make him any happier. And while trading Encarnacion away might be a feel good move for a least some fans, the only plus in such a move is that it opens up a roster spot, and potentially some playing time for Aguila and Willingham, who, while not the obsession for me he is with others, is just rotting away on the bench right now and all of us can agree on that.

 

I'd like to know what positions he practices at if anyone knows (and "knows" means real knowledge, not some guess). I haven't been to game this season where the gates were open early enough that fans can actually see the guys go through their drills.

 

But back to subject of this thread, moving Enc, regardless of what we get in return seems a logical first step. I don't care for Quantrill, frankly I'd just as soon get a true prospect. If the Yankees can use him, send us someone who can contribute next year or the year after.

 

Moving Cabrera to third, recalling Aguila and platooning him with Conine and Willingham in the corner outfield spots is certainly worth trying. Let the cream rise to the top. The best two out of three play the rest of the season, or until Lowell forces his way back into the lineup by showing he can hit off the bench.

 

One thing I've noticed this week regarding JP is that the Braves are employing a shift against him that's even more radical than against Delgado. If you were to draw a line from third to second and out into the outfield, the rightfielder is playing 30' left of that line, for all intents and purposes in centerfield. I've opined frequently that JP has to open up the field of play and start pulling the ball more. The only way to convince other teams to not employ these radical defenses is go with flow and bloop it over the 2nd baseman's head and run like h*ll.

 

But in the end I still believe once he gets untracked, he'll start hitting at his usual .300 clip and we'll start scoring runs again. I wouldn't trade him. Not now and not this season.

 

Firing McKeon, seems to me to be a last resort, Same goes for Robinson.

For expediency, firing Robinson is the easiest move to make. It's harder to move players especially with ones with big salaries. Firing Robinson would at least show us that someone's still awake in the FO.

For expediency, firing Robinson is the easiest move to make. It's harder to move players especially with ones with big salaries. Firing Robinson would at least show us that someone's still awake in the FO.

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The problem is that not many people in the FO or in teh baseball world beleive the hitting coach is the problem. Firing Robinson will do nothing good, he is liked amoung the players and thus it might actually hurt the team if Robinson is fired. Personally, I do not think it would make 1 bit of diffrence so I am not concerned with Robinson.

I'm afraid to picture our offense getting worse.

For expediency, firing Robinson is the easiest move to make.? It's harder to move players especially with ones with big salaries.? Firing Robinson would at least show us that someone's still awake in the FO.

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The problem is that not many people in the FO or in teh baseball world beleive the hitting coach is the problem. Firing Robinson will do nothing good, he is liked amoung the players and thus it might actually hurt the team if Robinson is fired. Personally, I do not think it would make 1 bit of diffrence so I am not concerned with Robinson.

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Well, Torborg was loved by the players and they went on to win the WS after he was given the pink slip.

Not to mention '03 that defenses are playing so shallow on JP that fly balls have almost no chance of dropping.

 

I don't think firing Robinson is a last resort. I don't think he's the problem, but nor do I think it would have much of an impact either way. So if people want to fire somebody just for the sake of change, he's probably the easiest target.

For expediency, firing Robinson is the easiest move to make.? It's harder to move players especially with ones with big salaries.? Firing Robinson would at least show us that someone's still awake in the FO.

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The problem is that not many people in the FO or in teh baseball world beleive the hitting coach is the problem. Firing Robinson will do nothing good, he is liked amoung the players and thus it might actually hurt the team if Robinson is fired. Personally, I do not think it would make 1 bit of diffrence so I am not concerned with Robinson.

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Well, Torborg was loved by the players and they went on to win the WS after he was given the pink slip.

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Yea, but your talking about the Head Coach there, he is the one with the most control over the players and decisions on the field. A hitting coach is insignificant and would hardly have the same amount of impact as a head coach change.