But the USA did wise up and finally decide that slavery was wrong, like Britain as well as other nations that were into slavery. The confederecy went down fighting for the right for slavery however, and they never backed off of it. And it stuck as a symbol for the deep south and slavery because that did fight under it. Because it represents those who died for the southern ideals. Yeah it does represent a lot now, a lot of negative connotations. And personally I think to wear that flag around is a bit ignorant.

 

Ask people what is the most racist and oppressive symbol still worn around today, still used, and I bet you a lot would say the confederate flag.

 

I mean you recognize the fact that it does represent quite a few negative things. And even though I find it ignorant to wear around just because of how you might be portraying yourself, I don't think it should be outlawed or anything. However, to wear it in a school that is a thin line, because aside from potentially being a distraction it could lead to stuff like this. Public school is a privledge, not a born right. Do I care if the guy down at the 7-11 wears a confederate flag hat? No not really, thats how he portrays himself. Or if my roommate marches around in Klan garb, no that is his choice. However, in a school setting that is pushing things, especially in public schools.

948031[/snapback]

You brought up those comments about Blacks saying this was the most oprresive time...it wasnt, that would be under the British rule of this land, hardly during the Confederacy of the 1850s, so again, people have no idea what they are talking about and are going on propaganda and what they think happened.

 

If you are going to call out the confederates flag, then you need to call out almost every national flag in the world. The worst slavery opression in recorded history was probably in Nigeria, with the black slave masters there that were instrumental in the slave trade. They were basically the driving force behind the slave trade. Where is the outcry for the Nigerian flag?

 

What about the Egyptians who owned Jewish slaves? Africans in Egypt are racist?

 

What about our quarters, which don the face of George Washington, a slave owner.

 

Or the Jefferson Memorial? He was a slave owner, he wanted slavery to die out on its own...not outright abolish it.

 

What about the White European Slavos (where the word is derived)? They were one of the most oppressed groups in history...many Americans have their roots from them, where is their outcry? These Slavs were sold to black masters in Africa as well...are those blacks racist because they owned whites?

 

In the United States, blacks were under slavery for under 100 years, that pales in comparrison to most groups.

 

Only 5% of all Blacks transported out of Africa went to America. The rest were msotly sent to South America. Where is the outcry?

 

The Confederate battle flag is the whipping boy of this country because of the KKK and ignorance, not because of any truth.

how was the south ever in the 'majority'

948042[/snapback]

As in it was more or less a democratic federal government. When Lincoln, the moderate republican, took office the south lost their power in the house, as in it was not democratic majority, so the south saw that as a problem.

 

And yeah Lincoln was "lucky" to win as in the top candidates split votes. The some southern states didn't even put Lincoln on the ballot, not that he would have won those states anyway.

how was the south ever in the 'majority'

948042[/snapback]

As in it was more or less a democratic federal government. When Lincoln, the moderate republican, took office the south lost their power in the house, as in it was not democratic majority, so the south saw that as a problem.

 

And yeah Lincoln was "lucky" to win as in the top candidates split votes. The some southern states didn't even put Lincoln on the ballot, not that he would have won those states anyway.

948045[/snapback]

 

 

 

the slave states werent getting anything long before lincoln took office. Bottom line is that if the Democratic party unites behind one candidate, Lincoln never sniffs the white house.

But the USA did wise up and finally decide that slavery was wrong, like Britain as well as other nations that were into slavery.? The confederecy went down fighting for the right for slavery however, and they never backed off of it.? And it stuck as a symbol for the deep south and slavery because that did fight under it. Because it represents those who died for the southern ideals. Yeah it does represent a lot now, a lot of negative connotations. And personally I think to wear that flag around is a bit ignorant.

 

Ask people what is the most racist and oppressive symbol still worn around today, still used, and I bet you a lot would say the confederate flag.

 

I mean you recognize the fact that it does represent quite a few negative things. And even though I find it ignorant to wear around just because of how you might be portraying yourself, I don't think it should be outlawed or anything. However, to wear it in a school that is a thin line, because aside from potentially being a distraction it could lead to stuff like this. Public school is a privledge, not a born right. Do I care if the guy down at the 7-11 wears a confederate flag hat? No not really, thats how he portrays himself. Or if my roommate marches around in Klan garb, no that is his choice. However, in a school setting that is pushing things, especially in public schools.

948031[/snapback]

You brought up those comments about Blacks saying this was the most oprresive time...it wasnt, that would be under the British rule of this land, hardly during the Confederacy of the 1850s, so again, people have no idea what they are talking about and are going on propaganda and what they think happened.

 

If you are going to call out the confederates flag, then you need to call out almost every national flag in the world. The worst slavery opression in recorded history was probably in Nigeria, with the black slave masters there that were instrumental in the slave trade. They were basically the driving force behind the slave trade. Where is the outcry for the Nigerian flag?

 

What about the Egyptians who owned Jewish slaves? Africans in Egypt are racist?

 

What about our quarters, which don the face of George Washington, a slave owner.

 

Or the Jefferson Memorial? He was a slave owner, he wanted slavery to die out on its own...not outright abolish it.

 

What about the White European Slavos (where the word is derived)? They were one of the most oppressed groups in history...many Americans have their roots from them, where is their outcry? These Slavs were sold to black masters in Africa as well...are those blacks racist because they owned whites?

 

In the United States, blacks were under slavery for under 100 years, that pales in comparrison to most groups.

 

Only 5% of all Blacks transported out of Africa went to America. The rest were msotly sent to South America. Where is the outcry?

 

The Confederate battle flag is the whipping boy of this country because of the KKK and ignorance, not because of any truth.

948043[/snapback]

 

I am not saying the people are right or wrong. I am not going to tell a black person they are wrong to find the Confederate Flag offensive to them, because hell I don't know what it is to be black in this world. In fact, most people don't.

 

However, like I said, other nations now a days realize slavery is wrong. So they are more or less forgiven. The confederate flag is part of the past, no states use it as its state flag anymore, so now to wear it, you are digging it up from the past.

 

Is it wrong that the flag represents what it does? Maybe, maybe not. But you have to realize that people do associate the things together, like it or not. And something like that should not be worn in a school because it will just lead to trouble some way some how, even if it is worn for completely innocent reasons, it still carries the conotations.

But the USA did wise up and finally decide that slavery was wrong, like Britain as well as other nations that were into slavery. The confederecy went down fighting for the right for slavery however, and they never backed off of it. And it stuck as a symbol for the deep south and slavery because that did fight under it. Because it represents those who died for the southern ideals. Yeah it does represent a lot now, a lot of negative connotations. And personally I think to wear that flag around is a bit ignorant.

 

Ask people what is the most racist and oppressive symbol still worn around today, still used, and I bet you a lot would say the confederate flag.

 

I mean you recognize the fact that it does represent quite a few negative things. And even though I find it ignorant to wear around just because of how you might be portraying yourself, I don't think it should be outlawed or anything. However, to wear it in a school that is a thin line, because aside from potentially being a distraction it could lead to stuff like this. Public school is a privledge, not a born right. Do I care if the guy down at the 7-11 wears a confederate flag hat? No not really, thats how he portrays himself. Or if my roommate marches around in Klan garb, no that is his choice. However, in a school setting that is pushing things, especially in public schools.

948031[/snapback]

You brought up those comments about Blacks saying this was the most oprresive time...it wasnt, that would be under the British rule of this land, hardly during the Confederacy of the 1850s, so again, people have no idea what they are talking about and are going on propaganda and what they think happened.

 

If you are going to call out the confederates flag, then you need to call out almost every national flag in the world. The worst slavery opression in recorded history was probably in Nigeria, with the black slave masters there that were instrumental in the slave trade. They were basically the driving force behind the slave trade. Where is the outcry for the Nigerian flag?

 

What about the Egyptians who owned Jewish slaves? Africans in Egypt are racist?

 

What about our quarters, which don the face of George Washington, a slave owner.

 

Or the Jefferson Memorial? He was a slave owner, he wanted slavery to die out on its own...not outright abolish it.

 

What about the White European Slavos (where the word is derived)? They were one of the most oppressed groups in history...many Americans have their roots from them, where is their outcry? These Slavs were sold to black masters in Africa as well...are those blacks racist because they owned whites?

 

In the United States, blacks were under slavery for under 100 years, that pales in comparrison to most groups.

 

Only 5% of all Blacks transported out of Africa went to America. The rest were msotly sent to South America. Where is the outcry?

 

The Confederate battle flag is the whipping boy of this country because of the KKK and ignorance, not because of any truth.

948043[/snapback]

 

I am not saying the people are right or wrong. I am not going to tell a black person they are wrong to find the Confederate Flag offensive to them, because hell I don't know what it is to be black in this world. In fact, most people don't.

 

However, like I said, other nations now a days realize slavery is wrong. So they are more or less forgiven. The confederate flag is part of the past, no states use it as its state flag anymore, so now to wear it, you are digging it up from the past.

 

Is it wrong that the flag represents what it does? Maybe, maybe not. But you have to realize that people do associate the things together, like it or not. And something like that should not be worn in a school because it will just lead to trouble some way some how, even if it is worn for completely innocent reasons, it still carries the conotations.

948049[/snapback]

Wow, good way to divert my points, and give a polished around the bush answer...but I guess Ill take that as a lost for words/comebacks.

 

Also most uses of the confederate flag are from dixie outfitters (mentioned in the article as what the boy had on over his offensive shirt), in North Carolina these were worn, I see them in Texas alot too...

 

'Real' offensive images here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also dont get the 'what it means to be black in this world' statement. Its almost as if you are looking down on african americans, like they have it worse off or at less of an opportunity from the cradle then other races.

 

My father, a black man, was born in the Bronx...in poverty with 5 brothers....made his way out of the ghetto, worked and paid his way through the Ohio State University, worked his way up while starting a family of his own with three kids.

 

He seemed to not look at his skin as a supposed death sentnece as most blacks now believe, and did something with his life.

I am not pushing your points away. Like I said, I am not going to speak for blacks and how they feel. I might not even agree with them that the confederate flag really does represent something horrific, although even you agreed it does a bit. However for them it does completely thus it is a distraction in school, end of story.

I am not pushing your points away. Like I said, I am not going to speak for blacks and how they feel. I might not even agree with them that the confederate flag really does represent something horrific, although even you agreed it does a bit. However for them it does completely thus it is a distraction in school, end of story.

948052[/snapback]

 

 

 

i can name just about anything that is a distraction in school.

I am not pushing your points away. Like I said, I am not going to speak for blacks and how they feel. I might not even agree with them that the confederate flag really does represent something horrific, although even you agreed it does a bit. However for them it does completely thus it is a distraction in school, end of story.

948052[/snapback]

 

 

 

i can name just about anything that is a distraction in school.

948055[/snapback]

Exactly.

 

Chicks with large breasts were a distraction to me during high school...should they have been kicked out?

 

Each individual person can have something being distracting to them, we shouldnt have to coddle each individual kid when something is innocent.

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

948061[/snapback]

Yep, and you cant even compare a swastika to a confederate flag.

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

948061[/snapback]

Yep, and you cant even compare a swastika to a confederate flag.

948062[/snapback]

So we feel compassion for the jews and not the blacks? Okay I get it. :plain Jews associate their pain to the swastica and blacks to the confederate flag.

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

948061[/snapback]

Yep, and you cant even compare a swastika to a confederate flag.

948062[/snapback]

So we feel compassion for the jews and not the blacks? Okay I get it. :plain

948063[/snapback]

I feel compassion for jews and blacks.

 

I think slavery is evil....but I dont think the Confederate flag has much to do with slavery as you think.

 

But we are running in circles, Ive made my points loud and clear.

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

948061[/snapback]

Yep, and you cant even compare a swastika to a confederate flag.

948062[/snapback]

So we feel compassion for the jews and not the blacks? Okay I get it. :plain

948063[/snapback]

I feel compassion for jews and blacks.

 

I think slavery is evil....but I dont think the Confederate flag has much to do with slavery as you think.

 

But we are running in circles, Ive made my points loud and clear.

948066[/snapback]

But like it or not blacks associate their pain with the confederate flag yet you find nothing wrong with it worn in school.

So do you guys find anything wrong with wearing swasticas to school?

948061[/snapback]

Yep, and you cant even compare a swastika to a confederate flag.

948062[/snapback]

So we feel compassion for the jews and not the blacks? Okay I get it. :plain

948063[/snapback]

I feel compassion for jews and blacks.

 

I think slavery is evil....but I dont think the Confederate flag has much to do with slavery as you think.

 

But we are running in circles, Ive made my points loud and clear.

948066[/snapback]

But like it or not blacks associate their pain with the confederate flag yet you find nothing wrong with it worn in school.

948067[/snapback]

Some blacks do, the outspoken ones, those are the ones you hear.

 

The rest just dont give a s*** and go on with their business. And I already posted the results of a nation wide poll where 68% said it was not offensive to them.

 

Again, circles.

 

Im done Phishphan...for more, go back and re-read my posts. It will do you some good.

Few symbols rival the Confederate flag for the ability to evoke such a wide range of passions. It is perhaps not surprising that those passions tend to run along racial lines.

 

A Mason-Dixon poll conducted in January found that 77% of African-Americans believe the flag is a symbol of racism, and just 9% characterize it as a symbol of Southern heritage. Sixty-six percent of whites responding to the survey said the flag symbolizes Southern heritage, while just 21% describe it as a symbol of racism.

 

http://www.ncac.org/cen_news/cn77confederateflag.html

 

A Mason-Dixon poll conducted this January found that three-fourths of the African-Americans polled said the old flag symbolized oppression and racial division, while nearly as many whites said it is a symbol of heritage and history.

 

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/voi...0203racism.html

 

I must have missed the link and quote you provided for your numbers. And I don't get who this phisphan guy is you talk about.

phishphan with a lecture on racism and a call for sensitivity toward blacks.

 

how ironic.

The Confederate flag IS a symbol of racism. Secondly let's go back to this...

'Real' offensive images here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also dont get the 'what it means to be black in this world' statement. Its almost as if you are looking down on african americans, like they have it worse off or at less of an opportunity from the cradle then other races.

 

My father, a black man, was born in the Bronx...in poverty with 5 brothers....made his way out of the ghetto, worked and paid his way through the Ohio State University, worked his way up while starting a family of his own with three kids.

 

He seemed to not look at his skin as a supposed death sentnece as most blacks now believe, and did something with his life.

948051[/snapback]

Ok so if I wear a shirt with puppies and a swastica then it's ok? If I show good ol' American baseball with the Nazi flag in the background it ok? Because basically... there is no difference between these images you showed, and what I just said. But wait... you guys are foaming at the mouth to attack me so I am stupid I guess...

Few symbols rival the Confederate flag for the ability to evoke such a wide range of passions. It is perhaps not surprising that those passions tend to run along racial lines.

 

A Mason-Dixon poll conducted in January found that 77% of African-Americans believe the flag is a symbol of racism, and just 9% characterize it as a symbol of Southern heritage. Sixty-six percent of whites responding to the survey said the flag symbolizes Southern heritage, while just 21% describe it as a symbol of racism.

 

http://www.ncac.org/cen_news/cn77confederateflag.html

 

A Mason-Dixon poll conducted this January found that three-fourths of the African-Americans polled said the old flag symbolized oppression and racial division, while nearly as many whites said it is a symbol of heritage and history.

 

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/voi...0203racism.html

 

I must have missed the link and quote you provided for your numbers. And I don't get who this phisphan guy is you talk about.

948071[/snapback]

 

 

Certainly counters the notion that blacks arent offended by it. Most blacks Ive talked to are. Maybe not all.

I can see the points being made by both Passion and Tealfish. For white Southerners (I count myself one. Born and raised G-ville, FL) the Confederate battle flag contains the meaning of heritage/better times/good ole' days/etc. Black people, and especially black Southerners see that flag as a symbol of hate/oppression/terror/lynching and with very, very good reason. Many horrible things were done in the name of that flag long after the Civil War was ended at the App. Courthouse.

The Confederate flag IS a symbol of racism. Secondly let's go back to this...

'Real' offensive images here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also dont get the 'what it means to be black in this world' statement. Its almost as if you are looking down on african americans, like they have it worse off or at less of an opportunity from the cradle then other races.

 

My father, a black man, was born in the Bronx...in poverty with 5 brothers....made his way out of the ghetto, worked and paid his way through the Ohio State University, worked his way up while starting a family of his own with three kids.

 

He seemed to not look at his skin as a supposed death sentnece as most blacks now believe, and did something with his life.

948051[/snapback]

Ok so if I wear a shirt with puppies and a swastica then it's ok? If I show good ol' American baseball with the Nazi flag in the background it ok? Because basically... there is no difference between these images you showed, and what I just said. But wait... you guys are foaming at the mouth to attack me so I am stupid I guess...

948077[/snapback]

Again, my whole point is that the Confederate Battle Flag has been contorted to represent racism when in fact it doesnt, and shouldnt (I gave examples of much more racist symols in my previous posts). You can not say that the Nazi symbol represents anything other then a genocide practicing regime that threatened the free world during the 40s...

I can see the points being made by both Passion and Tealfish. For white Southerners (I count myself one. Born and raised G-ville, FL) the Confederate battle flag contains the meaning of heritage/better times/good ole' days/etc. Black people, and especially black Southerners see that flag as a symbol of hate/oppression/terror/lynching and with very, very good reason. Many horrible things were done in the name of that flag long after the Civil War was ended at the App. Courthouse.

948137[/snapback]

But for some people for whom the confederate flag is reminiscent of "better times/good ole' days" harken to the period where there were slaves. For some, those good ole' days came at the expense of others.

 

As Passion notes, the confederate flag has been contorted by some to represent racism, where I disagree is that the assertion that it doesn't. It might not to all Southerners or even all white/black people - but it does to some.

I can see the points being made by both Passion and Tealfish.? For white Southerners (I count myself one.? Born and raised G-ville, FL) the Confederate battle flag contains the meaning of heritage/better times/good ole' days/etc.? Black people, and especially black Southerners see that flag as a symbol of hate/oppression/terror/lynching and with very, very good reason.? Many horrible things were done in the name of that flag long after the Civil War was ended at the App. Courthouse.

948137[/snapback]

But for some people for whom the confederate flag is reminiscent of "better times/good ole' days" harken to the period where there were slaves. For some, those good ole' days came at the expense of others.

 

As Passion notes, the confederate flag has been contorted by some to represent racism, where I disagree is that the assertion that it doesn't. It might not to all Southerners or even all white/black people - but it does to some.

948562[/snapback]

Yep, I pretty much agree with that. The good ole' days for some Southerners (yes, even today) represents a time when blacks were a sub-race to be stepped on and scoffed at.

First, TealFish, I think the kid's shirt was offensive more because it showed black people being dragged by a car driven by klansmen, not the Confederate flag. Second, the Nazis did not 'invent' the swastika, it was an ancient symbol that was adopted by the Nazis, turning an inoffensive symbol into an offensive one. The Confederate flag, while it may not itself symbolize racism, was/is adopted by racists and is seen as offensive by many because of that. Not at the same level of the nazis but that is my attempt of comparing a swastika to a confederate flag.