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"Marlins ticket holders cry foul"


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Season ticket holders should renew their tickets now more than ever to support the franchise and people who never had tickets should get a package t oshow their support otherwise the franchise is gone

 

Marlins ticket holders cry foul

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Holders of season tickets can't get their money back, even though the Florida Marlins have traded most of their key players.

 

If you are a Marlins season-ticket holder irate over the team's latest dismantling, which likely concluded with Wednesday's trade of Juan Pierre to the Cubs, you can call talk radio and spew invective, you can tear up your poster of the 2003 World Champions, you can even stick pins in a Billy the Marlin doll.

 

What you can't do is get your money back.

 

The team said this week it will not grant refunds to season-ticket holders -- a position that put already fuming fans in an even fouler mood.

 

The Marlins also won't reverse an earlier decision to raise single-game ticket prices for next season. (Prices will be announced soon.) Season-ticket prices also have increased for some seats.

 

After watching the Marlins trade Josh Beckett, Carlos Delgado, Mike Lowell, Luis Castillo, Paul Lo Duca and now Pierre, fans have been venting their outrage.

 

''This is not what we bought a ticket for,'' said Andrew Gordon, a Miami Beach resident, who said he and five other friends were rebuffed in efforts to get a refund. ``It's a shame. . . . The Marlins don't care. We're not getting what we paid for.''

 

There is no legal precedent for fans collecting refunds when a team trades popular players, according to Ervin A. Gonzalez, a Coral Gables attorney who handles class-action suits, among other things. After previous owner Wayne Huizenga dismantled the Marlins in 1998, several people filed class-action lawsuits.

 

''But they were not successful,'' said Gonzalez, who owns Marlins season tickets. ``The only thing guaranteed is that a team will be fielded, not the quality of the team. I feel bad for the consumer. We'll have a Triple A caliber team, but because they're wearing major-league uniforms and earning [at least] the major-league minimum salary, that will meet the legal requirement.''

 

Marlins President David Samson said that even with the highest payroll in its history last season ($65 million), the team did not advance to the postseason, and fans can make no assumptions about next year's team.

 

''There is no way to guarantee what's going to happen on the field,'' he said. ``We continue to promise a competitive, affordable team that will provide entertainment for our fans.''

 

The Marlins declined to say how many season tickets have been sold for next year, but Samson claims that the renewal rate has been high. The team sold nearly 10,000 season tickets for this year, but the Marlins' average attendance (22,872) ranked 28th in the major leagues, ahead of only Tampa Bay and Kansas City.

 

In September, fans who wanted to guarantee playoff tickets for 2005 were required to purchase season tickets for 2006. Those who exercised that option could not back out, even though the Marlins did not advance to the postseason.

 

In an e-mail to The Herald, Richard Crowell said he wrote to the Marlins, saying, ``As I stated in the first note, you sold me a product that no longer exists, a product you cannot deliver, and I demand a refund of my money. I have contacted my credit card company and requested they begin a dispute against the charges immediately and to refuse further charges until we can come to some form of an agreement.''

 

The Marlins will allow season-ticket holders to speak with Samson and General Manager Admin Beinfest at a party at 6 p.m. Tuesday at Dolphins Stadium.

 

The event was scheduled three months ago and is not in response to fan backlash, Marlins spokesman P.J. Loyello said.

 

Gordon said he wants to listen to what Samson has to say before deciding whether to pursue legal action

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I think these people should get their money back. The bad blood that will be created by the lawsuit that will likely happen here will far outweigh the amount of money the team will keep. Give someone's money back this year, and then maybe they'll come back to you in 2008 when the team is in better shape. Force them to take you to court, then sure, maybe you'll get their money this year....but never, ever again. It's actions like this that make it impossible for the team to gain any momentum in South Florida.

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I think these people should get their money back. The bad blood that will be created by the lawsuit that will likely happen here will far outweigh the amount of money the team will keep. Give someone's money back this year, and then maybe they'll come back to you in 2008 when the team is in better shape. Force them to take you to court, then sure, maybe you'll get their money this year....but never, ever again. It's actions like this that make it impossible for the team to gain any momentum in South Florida.

 

I don't think they are too worried about how they make South Florida feel. :confused Most of the evidence points to them having already given up on the idea of staying.

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"We continue to promise a competitive, affordable team that will provide entertainment for our fans."

 

Now that's just insulting the fans' intelligence. 'Exciting,' 'young,' 'talented,' any of those adjectives would have worked fine, but not competitive...that's just a slap in the face...

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Samson is a dick!

The Marlins can be a profit center, the team has been market poorly since winning the World Series in '03 and the "Marlin experience" is pure hell to the potential fan. Too hot, rain, underachieving team with complaining bitches like A.J..

If and that is a big IF Loria would sell this team he and we had ownership that actually didn't cry when they lose a few bucks and we got ourselves a nice retractible roof baseball only stadium. ALL THOSE IF's but you would easily get 30k plus on an avg.

 

Samson is a dick!

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Samson is a dick!

The Marlins can be a profit center, the team has been market poorly since winning the World Series in '03 and the "Marlin experience" is pure hell to the potential fan. Too hot, rain, underachieving team with complaining bitches like A.J..

If and that is a big IF Loria would sell this team he and we had ownership that actually didn't cry when they lose a few bucks and we got ourselves a nice retractible roof baseball only stadium. ALL THOSE IF's but you would easily get 30k plus on an avg.

 

Samson is a dick!

 

 

"Marketed poorly since 2003"? What more did you want?? Geez, I don't know, that big f**kin' trophy after winning the World Series wasn't a pretty good reason to go to the park?!? Those two f**kin' parades through South Florida after winning the whole damn thing wasn't enough to bring you to the park?!?!? What, Willis, Delgado, Cabrera, Castillo, LoDuca, Beckett and Lowell wasn't enough to bring you to the park in 2004 and 2005?!?!? What, do you want a member of the front office to drive you to the stadium and stand over you with an umbrella so that your poor little self doesn't get wet or too much sun?!?!

 

Your statement is the reason why baseball has failed in South Florida. You want to be "marketed" but have no idea what you're talking about! Unless someone is spoonfeeding you, you're just going to sit back and say, "it's too hot," "there's too much traffic," "the team isn't 45 games over .500," etc., etc., etc.!

 

This team WAS marketed in 2004 and 2005. There were billboards up and down I-95 and the Turnpike in 2004 and 2005! What, you didn't see them? There were radio ads and television ads. What, you didn't hear them? The team was in Wild Card contention in late September both in 2004 and 2005. What, you didn't read the sports section or watch ESPN?

 

I'll be looking forward this year not having to share the stadium with your "type", since I love to actually watch a game without having some idiot like you and your ilk having to go to the bathroom or get their 52nd beer in the middle of a 2-1 count in the middle of the f**kin' inning!

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I'm the biggest Marlin's fan in South Florida, so you are probably as ignorant as your comments.

After winning a World Series and you can't get butts in the seats you have a marketing problem. You don't need to market to the FANS (like you and I) The people who watch the games on TV aren't showing up they are the ones that need some incentive supergenious!! People in South Florida love the Marlins just look at the TV ratings, if they are watching the games on TV and you can't get them to the park then it's marketing problem, not lack of fans.

This team has been f*cked with too much for anyone to take them seriously. '93 and '94 they averaged over 35k per game. What happened then??? Maybe the sh!t park, heat, rain all sent fans to watching the games at home. I would sit on the 7th ring of hell to watch a game, but Average Joe and his family will not. Then great the Marlins win a World Series and eveyone thought this is the begining of a great tradition, but NO..........firesale, no defending the Championship. That tarnished the trophy you referred too. Then piss poor owners, managers and players for 3 years. Loria comes in and things seem to be looking up and the Marlins win AGAIN. He defends the Championship for a whole 2 seasons, then cries I can't afford it. AND what do we get as fans................FIRESALE AGAIN!!! Why would anyone continue to support a team that is holding you as a fan hostage and is shopping it's self around like a whore???? '04, '05 '06 '07 should have been the best years in Marlins history because the fans are there, Samson and his schmucks can't get them to the stadium. AND when they get there it's a sh!t experience!!!

As a kid growing up in NJ I remember going to numerous Yankee and Mets games, I couldn't tell you who they played in any of the games I just loved the experience. DOLPHIN'S STADIUM you don't get a great baseball feel. Sorry if that rocks your world, but the fans are there, check the TV ratings, Samson's unqualified ass just can't figure out how to make the experience fun for everyone. THAT IS MARKETING, not a billboard 5 miles from the stadium.

New ownership with Major League baseball funds and a new stadium would make the fans forget how poorly this team has been handled. I pray that the Marlins stay and get a stadium AND I would go to games and watch them lose 100+ games if it meant a stadium and being competitive in 3 years.

Accept the facts, Loria has no right owning a team because he doesn't have the funds necessary; Samson's only qualification for being a MLB team President is the silver spoon in his mouth. Is it any wonder why they don't know how to get butts in the seats???!!

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I'm the biggest Marlin's fan in South Florida, so you are probably as ignorant as your comments.

After winning a World Series and you can't get butts in the seats you have a marketing problem.

 

No, you don't have a marketing problem, you have a populace that doesn't care. I can market the Rolls Royce of snowmobiles here in South Florida using cutting edge techniques, flashy ads, great promotions, but I won't sell any of them because the population doesn't need it, doesn't care for it, or flat out doesn't want it.

 

What more could have been "marketed" in 2004 and 2005 that would have brought in 35,000 per game? The best "marketing" for a sports team is success on the field. The 2004 and 2005 teams were in the Wild Card hunt until September, but nobody cared. You claim I'm ignorant, but I've shown you that the best marketing to "non-rabid fans" is a winning product, and that product in 2004 and 2005 was a "winning" product. But since the general populace down here would rather complain about the heat, the traffic, the stadium, the team is not "good enough" (and by "good" I mean that if they're not 40 games over .500 they're not worth their time) or whatever other sad excuse (like not going to a game last year because of the 1997 fire sale), then what that says to me (and probably to Loria) is that no matter what you would have presented here to the "market" they were going to reject you. That's not a "marketing" problem, that's a "market" problem and going as far back is 1996 and 1997, this market has not responded to baseball. Therefore, why would ANY owner incur losses if no matter what he does, no matter who he brings in, the fans won't come in numbers to justify the expense. Huizenga found that out in 1997, Loria found it out in 2005, and I'm sure Owner X will find that out in 2010 in a retractable roof stadium somewhere in South Florida. If the market doesn't respond, then I'm not sure baseball will ever survive in South Florida.

 

So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

 

THANK YOU! This is our problem. There's really not an issue the die-hards will show up but honestly, it's hell to sit in that park. Especially those 1:00 games. Not that getting carried out for medical attention ISN'T a fun thing to pay good money to do. It's not a good experience. It's nothing to do with the team, it's the park. You guys are looking at this from die-hard fan perspective on why it's ridiculous people aren't showing up - the casual fans will NOT spend money to be rained on, sun-burned, and pass out. It's expensive for a family to go to a game, despite whatever tickets prices may be in other markets. I know fans down here are lazy and IN GENERAL are not the best, but I don't think we're being given a fair chance. Teams cannot survive on die-hards solely and someone who isn't a die-hard is not going to pay good money to sit through crap conditions.

 

 

It's not just the stadium. I would put a handsome wager that if this team were to get a new retractable roof stadium in, let's say for argument's sake next to Dolphins Stadium, and the year is 2012 and we're in August and they're 5 games under .500 and/or 7.5 games back of the Phillies, or Mets, or Nats, or Braves, you're going to see 15,000 people at the game. Why? Because this populace will only go to an "event." And, the casual fan will still say the traffic is bad, the parking is bad, the ticket is too expensive. The problem is South Florida is not the stadium, it's the apathetic population. Perhaps it's time to come to the realization that the South Florida general population doesn't care for baseball. C'mon, only 10,000 show up for a Panthers game! If the Heat are 10 games under .500 you have 14,000 or less at the AAA. This season, while "sold" tickets may say otherwise, there are around 55,000 people at Dolphins games. For heaven's sake 37,000 showed up for a key ACC match-up between UM and UVa! Apathy is the problem down here. It was cheaper for me to take my daughter to a Marlins game than it is for me to take her to the movies! But if most people don't care for baseball, they just won't show up.

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Im a season ticket holder and it hasnt crossed my mind about asking or suing for a refund... I will support this team! It doesnt matter if they are playing nothing but kids.. Im a fan of the game and this team...

 

BTW Hotcorner nailed it, you can BITCH all you want, you ARE NOT going to get a refund because the team traded away its players!

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I'm still waiting for hard data on why people aren't attending instead of everyone's gut feelings and best guesses. The fact that it doesn't seem to exist might be a good indicator of where the problems begin. You can't fix the problem until you know what's causing it.

 

 

Great point. The Marlins ought to research this closely.

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Guest Moneyball

I'm still waiting for hard data on why people aren't attending instead of everyone's gut feelings and best guesses. The fact that it doesn't seem to exist might be a good indicator of where the problems begin. You can't fix the problem until you know what's causing it.

 

 

Great point. The Marlins ought to research this closely.

 

They probably have, and came to the obvious conclusion. The weather. Why do you think they wouldn't budge on the roof? The 200M he was willing to put into the stadium project also says something about the potential of the market. Selig has said Miami has excellent demographics in the past.

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I'll just add that the FO has at least amplified the excuses for people not to come out to the games. A major facet of their argument for a new stadium in South Florida is the threat of rainouts, the seating is terrible in DS and overall the stadium is terrible as far as a baseball stadium goes. That is not to say people would not come up with excuses not to go to the games any ways. It is a tough spot because they are valid point to make when arguing for a retractable roof stadium.

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Marlins respond to this Miami herlad Article:

 

While we appreciate that certain season ticket holders have questioned the Florida Marlins' decision to have a payroll that finally reflects its revenues, the Marlins continue to deliver to season ticket holders exactly what was promised to them -- exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy.

 

Indeed, there has never been a more important time to be a Florida Marlins season ticket holder. Fans who continue to show their commitment to the Marlins are doing their part to help baseball in South Florida, and the Marlins are hopeful that the rest of the community will follow suit.

 

Offical Press Release: http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=fla

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I'm still waiting for hard data on why people aren't attending instead of everyone's gut feelings and best guesses. The fact that it doesn't seem to exist might be a good indicator of where the problems begin. You can't fix the problem until you know what's causing it.

 

 

Great point. The Marlins ought to research this closely.

 

They probably have, and came to the obvious conclusion. The weather. Why do you think they wouldn't budge on the roof? The 200M he was willing to put into the stadium project also says something about the potential of the market. Selig has said Miami has excellent demographics in the past.

That's a valid assumption, but I'm surprised none of this data seems to be available. You'd think not only the club, but MLB, the media, the local tourism board, and anyone else interested in arguing either for or against the stadium would have this research to bolster or discredit the stadium as being the main reason for fans staying away.

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Marlins respond to this Miami herlad Article:

 

While we appreciate that certain season ticket holders have questioned the Florida Marlins' decision to have a payroll that finally reflects its revenues, the Marlins continue to deliver to season ticket holders exactly what was promised to them -- exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy.

 

Indeed, there has never been a more important time to be a Florida Marlins season ticket holder. Fans who continue to show their commitment to the Marlins are doing their part to help baseball in South Florida, and the Marlins are hopeful that the rest of the community will follow suit.

 

Offical Press Release: http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=fla

 

Mabdul Doobakus responds to this Marlins response to the Miami Herald article:

 

While we season ticket holders understand your need to cut payroll, what we don't understand is why you feel you must treat your most loyal customers like sh*t. I couldn't be any angrier with this front office and their belittling responses to their angry fanbase. You can shove your exciting and talented players up your market-corrected ass.

 

Seriously, I would be less upset right now if they just said, "SUCKERS!" I don't take well to being treated like a moron.

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SoFlaFish:

 

That's not a "marketing" problem, that's a "market" problem

 

Bingo.

 

And by the way, I wholeheartedly agree with you that if the Marlins ever built a new stadium in South Florida, you'd see crappy crowds within about a couple of years. Then the "fan-apologists" will claim that the reason is that fans are still smarting from the 1997 firesale.

 

C'mon people, quit your whining and lay off the sorry excuses! You don't want to go to Marlins games because you don't want to get sunburned? Please. Use that one on the bleacher-creatures in Wrigley, who snap up the bleacher seats months in advance for the PRIVILEGE of turning their bare chests bright red. You think a Marlins game is too expensive at $6 a ticket? Tell that to the poor bastard from Boston who has to save up for weeks to buy a $50 upper deck seat at Fenway.

 

You fan-apologists don't freakin' get it. It's not the rain. It's not the firesales. It's not the long drives. Or the cost of parking. Or the cost of the ticket. It's that SOUTH FLORIDA SUCKS AS A SPORTS TOWN!

 

It reminds me of a ESPN SportsNation poll done a couple years back. Miami fans were asked to name the worst sports town in America, but were instructed that they couldn't name their own town. Miami's choice? South Florida.

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Marlins respond to this Miami herlad Article:

 

While we appreciate that certain season ticket holders have questioned the Florida Marlins' decision to have a payroll that finally reflects its revenues, the Marlins continue to deliver to season ticket holders exactly what was promised to them -- exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy.

 

Indeed, there has never been a more important time to be a Florida Marlins season ticket holder. Fans who continue to show their commitment to the Marlins are doing their part to help baseball in South Florida, and the Marlins are hopeful that the rest of the community will follow suit.

 

Offical Press Release: http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=fla

 

Mabdul Doobakus responds to this Marlins response to the Miami Herald article:

 

While we season ticket holders understand your need to cut payroll, what we don't understand is why you feel you must treat your most loyal customers like sh*t. I couldn't be any angrier with this front office and their belittling responses to their angry fanbase. You can shove your exciting and talented players up your market-corrected ass.

 

Seriously, I would be less upset right now if they just said, "SUCKERS!" I don't take well to being treated like a moron.

 

Exactly, it's one thing to say "we need your support in this important time in the franchise" and it's another to pull a rope-a-dope like they did.

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