WASHINGTON (AP) -- Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

 

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

 

The decision on whether to press criminal charges ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines' parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, California. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

 

The case is one of several involving alleged unjustified killings of Iraqi civilians that have emerged this year, damaging the military's reputation for humane treatment of civilians and triggering calls by some Iraqi leaders to end the arrangement under which U.S. troops are immune from prosecution by Iraqi authorities.

 

The Marines initially reported after the November 19, 2005 killings at Haditha that 15 Iraqi civilians had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.

 

A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.

 

A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines' chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.

 

Lawsuit filed against Murtha

Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed "in cold blood."

 

Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the accused Marines, argue in a lawsuit to be filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. The suit maintains that Pentagon officials "who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information" and that the congressman subsequently "has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory" to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.

 

Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, eight Marines have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya.

Not good, not good at all.

 

This is in addition to the other case where soldiers charged with killing civilians claimed that their superior officer (who was involved in the Black Hawk Down incident years ago) ordered them to kill any military-aged male Iraqis they could find.

Not good, not good at all.

 

Hey, thanks for that analysis. :plain

 

It doesn't matter what the evidence shows, they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Charges haven't even been filed yet and every bleeding heart has already convicted them! F*cking abusrd.

 

WASHINGTON - A Marine Corps Sergeant under investigation in connection with the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha is accusing Rep. John P. Murtha of defaming him in public comments about the case.

 

Lawyers for Frank D. Wuterich, 26, argue in a suit to be filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich "of cold-blooded murder and war crimes."

 

The suit maintains that Pentagon officials "who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information" and that the congressman subsequently "has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory" to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.

 

The suit accuses Murtha of spreading "false and malicious lies" about Wuterich and his squad that were "intended to serve his own private purpose and interests" and that Murtha's comments "have been reproduced by countless third parties throughout the world."

 

It says many of Murtha's remarks were made outside his "scope of employment as a congressman." Murtha, a former Marine, has been a leading proponent of withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

 

The planned court filing was first reported late Tuesday on The Washington Post's Internet site.

 

Wuterich's lawyers, Neal A. Puckett and Mark S. Zaid, subsequently provided a copy of the suit to The Associated Press early Wednesday and announced plans for a news conference outside the courthouse where they planned to file the suit.

 

The claim for libel and invasion of privacy seeks damages to be determined, but not less than $75,000.

 

"This case is not about money; it's about clearing Frank Wuterich's name, and part of that is to identify where these leaks are coming from," Zaid told the Post. "Congressman Murtha has created this atmosphere that has already concluded guilt. He's created this environment that really smells, and he's the only one who has done that."

 

The suit details Wuterich's account of what happened on Nov. 19, 2005, in Haditha, a story he has told through his lawyers previously.

 

Wuterich maintains several civilians were killed when his squad pursued insurgents firing at them from inside a house after a roadside bombing that killed one Marine. He describes a house-to-house hunt that went wrong in the midst of a confusing battlefield, but has denied through his attorneys any vengeful massacre.

 

Wuterich and three other Marines from his 3rd battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, are under criminal investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service. A parallel investigation is looking at whether officers at higher levels in the chain of command covered up the facts.

 

No one has been charged in the case.

 

The Post said telephone calls Tuesday to Murtha's office in Washington were referred to his district office in Pennsylvania and that calls there were not returned.

Not good, not good at all.

 

Hey, thanks for that analysis. :plain

 

It doesn't matter what the evidence shows, they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Charges haven't even been filed yet and every bleeding heart has already convicted them! F*cking abusrd.

 

 

Stop speaking out of your ass, and let people speak for themselves, and make their opinions, instead of putting words in their mouth, but hey who am I?

 

I feel great sorrow for these guys, if they are convicted. I blame this situation, on putting them into a hostile enviroment, where finally they were pushed to the brink and snapped.

 

God, I love how you are SO wise, that you know exactly what we commie's are thinking, stop trying to put on your little Michael Savage game face, and try to discuss things like I don't know, an adult. You know buddy, however, who am I to question such a tough spoon fed-conservative. When I'm an east coast, small town, hippie, who's out of touch with America.

Not good, not good at all.

 

Hey, thanks for that analysis. :plain

 

It doesn't matter what the evidence shows, they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Charges haven't even been filed yet and every bleeding heart has already convicted them! F*cking abusrd.

 

 

Stop speaking out of your ass, and let people speak for themselves, and make their opinions, instead of putting words in their mouth, but hey who am I?

 

I feel great sorrow for these guys, if they are convicted. I blame this situation, on putting them into a hostile enviroment, where finally they were pushed to the brink and snapped.

 

God, I love how you are SO wise, that you know exactly what we commie's are thinking, stop trying to put on your little Michael Savage game face, and try to discuss things like I don't know, an adult. You know buddy, however, who am I to question such a tough spoon fed-conservative. When I'm an east coast, small town, hippie, who's out of touch with America.

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

You're mature beyond your ears. You got me, I hate these guys, I love Iraqi's because I'm a dirty commie.

 

BTW, I bet it's not a coincidence your style of debate(if you can call it that), aligns exactly with Savage. I bet it's just a coincidence though. :thumbup

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

You're mature beyond your ears. You got me, I hate these guys, I love Iraqi's because I'm a dirty commie.

 

BTW, I bet it's not a coincidence your style of debate(if you can call it that), aligns exactly with Savage. I bet it's just a coincidence though. :thumbup

Is that all you can do be a sarcastic SOB and then say i'm being like some conservative radio host simply because I feel the troops deserve the right to due process?

 

I'd say what I was really thinking, but I don't feel like getting banned again.

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

You're mature beyond your ears. You got me, I hate these guys, I love Iraqi's because I'm a dirty commie.

 

BTW, I bet it's not a coincidence your style of debate(if you can call it that), aligns exactly with Savage. I bet it's just a coincidence though. :thumbup

Is that all you can do be a sarcastic SOB and then say i'm being like some conservative radio host simply because I feel the troops deserve the right to due process?

 

I'd say what I was really thinking, but I don't feel like getting banned again. Time to play devil's advocate...woo!

 

 

So why do the "terrorists" get held without due process? They are guilty in the eyes of public opinion before they have any chance.

 

 

 

AGAIN, I emphasize I am playing devil's advocate.

We have a double standard when it comes to our military. On the one hand, we want to bring to justice any people who attack our soldiers in a situation like Iraq. On the other hand, we refuse to let our soldiers stand trial for war crimes in the World Court. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, as Iraq gets worse, I start to think that we could have Vietnam-like slaughters of innocent civilians who soldiers might think are working with insurgents/terrorists. You never know. The battlefield is a tough environment.

We have a double standard when it comes to our military. On the one hand, we want to bring to justice any people who attack our soldiers in a situation like Iraq. On the other hand, we refuse to let our soldiers stand trial for war crimes in the World Court. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, as Iraq gets worse, I start to think that we could have Vietnam-like slaughters of innocent civilians who soldiers might think are working with insurgents/terrorists. You never know. The battlefield is a tough environment.

 

 

 

Iraq gettign worse as a definite :lol . For al you know this is an isolated incident. furthermore, the double standard is in the fact that since the late 60s, the general public has been quick to jump on soldiers misdoings and completely ignoring what the other side is doing to us.

Even General Abuzaid admits that things are getting worse in Iraq. Who else would know but the ground commander?

[

Is that all you can do be a sarcastic SOB and then say i'm being like some conservative radio host simply because I feel the troops deserve the right to due process?

 

I'd say what I was really thinking, but I don't feel like getting banned again.

 

Now I'm really scared, the man's holding Accord back from saying what he really wants.

 

BTW, I love the sheer hypocricy in your statement, "Liberals want to deny these guys the right to due process". Yeah, that makes sense you're claiming Liberals all have these guys guilty and are scumbags, yet you claim we should reserve judgement on these guys and they should get a fair deal.

 

Yeah, that doesn't contradict itself.

 

 

 

BTW, here's some of more of Accord's greatest hits...

 

What a f***ing dirtbag.

 

 

on Mcintosh being arrested for abusing his wife, not yet tried though...

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...=57071&st=0

 

Disgusting.

 

On Andrea Yates being found insane, I guess it didn't matter a court found her that way, you had your preconcieved notions, and you were going to stick with them, doesn't sound like Due process to me.

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...=64870&st=0

 

And their's more and more, I thought you cared about Due Process, Accord

 

BS, you're just trying to use this tragedy for both sides, for your own political game, you judge us, yet at the same time, have shown a complete lack of consistency on this issue.

 

Whatever, we dirty commies will go back to our hole, and you can still claim you really due support these guys, rather than using them as political pawns.

Even General Abuzaid admits that things are getting worse in Iraq. Who else would know but the ground commander?

 

 

The other millions of people that are in Iraq currently? No way to spin it, theres no definite that its getting worse. No definite that its getting better. Hell, no way of telling who considers what to be better or worse and so forth

Even General Abuzaid admits that things are getting worse in Iraq. Who else would know but the ground commander?

 

 

The other millions of people that are in Iraq currently? No way to spin it, theres no definite that its getting worse. No definite that its getting better. Hell, no way of telling who considers what to be better or worse and so forth

I believe the ground general as well, as it is a better choice to listen to then "other millions of people" specially since most of them "citizens of iraq" would most likely tell us to GTFO.

 

But really, I hope less situations like this arise and the individual soliders get due process to determine if they are indeed guilty of these attrocities.

 

 

As for Accord's statements above, that was completely and utterly unfounded and disrespectful slander.

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

 

Well, there is an awful lot of evidence against them, and very little evidence for them, so it's not like it's the "liberal media elite" or some such bs spouting off these unfounded claims.

 

I love it when people make sweeping generalizations like "Liberals hate soldiers". f*** that. Thats so idiotic that it really doesn't deserve a response.

We have a double standard when it comes to our military. On the one hand, we want to bring to justice any people who attack our soldiers in a situation like Iraq. On the other hand, we refuse to let our soldiers stand trial for war crimes in the World Court. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, as Iraq gets worse, I start to think that we could have Vietnam-like slaughters of innocent civilians who soldiers might think are working with insurgents/terrorists. You never know. The battlefield is a tough environment.

 

There is no double standard, the military justice system is far harsher than the civilian criminal justice system, if these Marines did any wrong then they'll be punished accordingly and far worse than if they were tried in a civilian court. The fact remains, charges have not even been brought yet and every god damn liberal on here has already convicted them.

 

 

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

 

Well, there is an awful lot of evidence against them, and very little evidence for them, so it's not like it's the "liberal media elite" or some such bs spouting off these unfounded claims.

 

I love it when people make sweeping generalizations like "Liberals hate soldiers". f*** that. Thats so idiotic that it really doesn't deserve a response.

Liberals may not hate soldiers per se, however the second any soldier does anything wrong you can always count on the liberals to jump all over them, all because they disagree with the war.

We have a double standard when it comes to our military. On the one hand, we want to bring to justice any people who attack our soldiers in a situation like Iraq. On the other hand, we refuse to let our soldiers stand trial for war crimes in the World Court. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, as Iraq gets worse, I start to think that we could have Vietnam-like slaughters of innocent civilians who soldiers might think are working with insurgents/terrorists. You never know. The battlefield is a tough environment.

 

There is no double standard, the military justice system is far harsher than the civilian criminal justice system, if these Marines did any wrong then they'll be punished accordingly and far worse than if they were tried in a civilian court. The fact remains, charges have not even been brought yet and every god damn liberal on here has already convicted them.

 

 

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

 

Well, there is an awful lot of evidence against them, and very little evidence for them, so it's not like it's the "liberal media elite" or some such bs spouting off these unfounded claims.

 

I love it when people make sweeping generalizations like "Liberals hate soldiers". f*** that. Thats so idiotic that it really doesn't deserve a response.

Liberals may not hate soldiers per se, however the second any soldier does anything wrong you can always count on the liberals to jump all over them, all because they disagree with the war. :lol :lol :lol

 

 

I'm sorry, Accord, not everything is a f***ing conspiracy against soldiers.

 

 

And its not the liberal media. Every goddamned media is jumping over the soldiers. Its not a liberal media conspiracy. Its the fact that whenever the media catches a whiff of a bigtime negative story, the hounds go out. Get over yourself, please.

 

 

ktnxbi!

We have a double standard when it comes to our military. On the one hand, we want to bring to justice any people who attack our soldiers in a situation like Iraq. On the other hand, we refuse to let our soldiers stand trial for war crimes in the World Court. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, as Iraq gets worse, I start to think that we could have Vietnam-like slaughters of innocent civilians who soldiers might think are working with insurgents/terrorists. You never know. The battlefield is a tough environment.

 

There is no double standard, the military justice system is far harsher than the civilian criminal justice system, if these Marines did any wrong then they'll be punished accordingly and far worse than if they were tried in a civilian court. The fact remains, charges have not even been brought yet and every god damn liberal on here has already convicted them.

 

 

Be a sarcastic POS all you want, doesn't change the fact that you and every other liberal have already convicted these Marines in the court of public opinion before any charges have even been filed. Rationalize it however you choose, I could give a sh*t. Of all the people in this country, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have certainly earned the right to due process, and who the f*** are you to try and take that away from them?

 

 

Well, there is an awful lot of evidence against them, and very little evidence for them, so it's not like it's the "liberal media elite" or some such bs spouting off these unfounded claims.

 

I love it when people make sweeping generalizations like "Liberals hate soldiers". f*** that. Thats so idiotic that it really doesn't deserve a response.

Liberals may not hate soldiers per se, however the second any soldier does anything wrong you can always count on the liberals to jump all over them, all because they disagree with the war.

 

 

Nobody has convicted them you just keep telling the liberals here that they have convicted them. You are skipping the electro shock therapy portion in the convincing of them.

 

If you keep telling me the sky is green, it isnt green Accord. The posts above are not convictions towards our soliders and I havent heard hatred upon soliders at all. Quite the opposite matter of fact.

 

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

 

You should reread the above posts and look what you have been saying and doing. You are putting lies in the mouths of others. Really the only one acting like convictions are being surpassed has been you.

Liberals may not hate soldiers per se, however the second any soldier does anything wrong you can always count on the liberals to jump all over them, all because they disagree with the war.

 

 

Thats bulls***, and if you are intelligent, you'll recognize that it is. If a soldier or a group of soldiers is accused of going into a town and killing civilians, you should expect outrage that we've even gotten to the point where it is believable that they would do it.

 

You keep backtracking, first saying "Every liberal on this f***ing board has convicted them blah blah blah" and now you're saying they are just using the soldier's actions for political gain. If you had made even a relevant argument to begin with (which you didn't), maybe you wouldn't have to backtrack to make yourself seem less insane. And yes, I'll say it, you sound insane here. You are going on and on about the liberal conspiracy to have all of our soldiers either locked away or killed, when there isn't a shred of evidence on this board. I just hope the liberals can't get you when you have your aluminum foil hat on, for your sake.

Thank you all for proving my point to the TEE

 

The fact of the matter is, every liberal has already convicted these men in the court of public opinion, deny it all you want, it's the truth and you all know it, however on this forum where an overwhelming majority of the members on here are liberals you can just easily write off any argument as "omg liberal media conspiracy talk by some conservative!!111one" so you don't have to acknowledge that you're all wrong.

 

I hate to turn this into a liberal vs. conservative issue, but that's exactly what it is when you open your god damn eyes. Liberals convicted these men from the second the news broke blaming it on the stresses they were unnecessarily put under by the President, which is flat out ridiculous. The root of it is that this news ultimately hurts the President, which is why liberals have been so quick to convict these men and blame the President for putting them in that situation.

 

There is a major difference between how liberals and conservatives see this. Every conservative says they deserve a fair trial and have refused to pass judgement on these men who have seen and experienced things none of you can even begin to comprehend, and IF they're found guilty then they'll be punished accordingly and rightfully so. Liberals immediately convicted these men as if they were already found guilty, when charges haven't even been filed yet.

 

Liberals love to say how they support the troops but are against the war, what a f***ing joke.

Thank you all for proving my point to the TEE

 

The fact of the matter is, every liberal has already convicted these men in the court of public opinion, deny it all you want, it's the truth and you all know it, however on this forum where an overwhelming majority of the members on here are liberals you can just easily write off any argument as "omg liberal media conspiracy talk by some conservative!!111one" so you don't have to acknowledge that you're all wrong.

 

I hate to turn this into a liberal vs. conservative issue, but that's exactly what it is when you open your god damn eyes. Liberals convicted these men from the second the news broke blaming it on the stresses they were unnecessarily put under by the President, which is flat out ridiculous. The root of it is that this news ultimately hurts the President, which is why liberals have been so quick to convict these men and blame the President for putting them in that situation.

 

There is a major difference between how liberals and conservatives see this. Every conservative says they deserve a fair trial and have refused to pass judgement on these men who have seen and experienced things none of you can even begin to comprehend, and IF they're found guilty then they'll be punished accordingly and rightfully so. Liberals immediately convicted these men as if they were already found guilty, when charges haven't even been filed yet.

 

Liberals love to say how they support the troops but are against the war, what a f***ing joke.

 

i support our troops but am against the war...whats so wrong with that?