January 7, 200719 yr 1. Greg Maddux 2. Randy Johnson 3. Roger Clemens 4. Tom Glavine 5. John Smoltz 6. Kevin Brown 7. Pedro Martinez 8. Mike Mussina 9. David Cone 10. Kevin Appier Apologies to Chuck Finley, Curt Schilling, Jack McDowell, David Wells...
January 7, 200719 yr No love for closers? 1. Greg Maddux 2. Roger Clemens 3. Randy Johnson 4. Tom Glavine 5. Kevin Appier 6. David Cone 7. Kevin Brown 8. Mike Mussina 9. John Smoltz 10. Chuck Finley Yeah, me neither...
January 7, 200719 yr 1. Greg Maddux 2. Randy Johnson 3. Roger Clemens 4. Tom Glavine 5. John Smoltz 6. Kevin Brown 7. Pedro Martinez 8. Mike Mussina 9. David Cone 10. Kevin Appier Good list but I'd order mine differently. Maddux Johnson Clemens Brown Smoltz Glavine Cone Mussina Martinez Appier
January 7, 200719 yr Whoops.. I was just thinking of SP.. title changed. I was just kidding... but ok...
January 7, 200719 yr Author Whoops.. I was just thinking of SP.. title changed. I was just kidding... but ok... :thumbup
January 7, 200719 yr 1. Greg Maddux 2. Randy Johnson 3. Kevin Brown 4. Pedro Martinez 5. Roger Clemens 6. Nolan Ryan 7. Kevin Appier 8. David Cone 9. Curt Schilling 10. Tom Glavine
January 7, 200719 yr Author 1. Greg Maddux 2. Randy Johnson 3. Kevin Brown 4. Pedro Martinez 5. Roger Clemens 6. Nolan Ryan 7. Kevin Appier 8. David Cone 9. Curt Schilling 10. Tom Glavine You're entitled to your opinion and everything... but come on. Ryan retired in '93 and Glavine won 164 games during the '90s, which I'm guessing is the 2nd most during that time behind Maddux.
January 7, 200719 yr I think it is agreed that our consensus top 3 are Maddux, Clemens and R. Johnson...
January 7, 200719 yr 1. Greg Maddux 2. Randy Johnson 3. Kevin Brown 4. Pedro Martinez 5. Roger Clemens 6. Nolan Ryan 7. Kevin Appier 8. David Cone 9. Curt Schilling 10. Tom Glavine You're entitled to your opinion and everything... but come on. Ryan retired in '93 and Glavine won 164 games during the '90s, which I'm guessing is the 2nd most during that time behind Maddux. Yeah I know...I just wanted to put Ryan on this list for the heck of it.
January 8, 200719 yr Greg Maddux Tom Glavine Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Randy Johnson John Smoltz Mike Mussina Kevin Brown David Cone Chuck Finley Charles Nagy I know that's 11, but I had to put Nagy on there just because I had such a hard time leaving him off completely. And before I get flack for Clemens so low, his 95 and 96 seasons were the victims of his own greatness, and he didn't really throw his name into the "best pitcher ever" conversation until his Yankee renaissance when he decided he was tired of losing double digit games. Why this guy gets a completely free pass for turning it on to an almost inhuman level at age 38 yet Bonds and others get hammered to the cross is something I'll never understand. So basically, the big two from Atlanta have to be 1-2 for me since they were the sole reason for the dynasty, and Pedro get the 3 spot because in the '90s he was bar none the best pitcher "when he was on" and his '99 season may be the most dominant single season performance of any of these guys on the list.
January 8, 200719 yr before I get flack for Clemens so low, his 95 and 96 seasons were the victims of his own greatness, and he didn't really throw his name into the "best pitcher ever" conversation until his Yankee renaissance when he decided he was tired of losing double digit games. Well, Clemens did win 3 Cy Youngs from 1990-1999 ['91, '98, and '99] and finished 2nd in '90 and 3rd in '92. 5 top 3 finishes in 10 years is pretty darn good. In fact, it is exactly equal to Maddux and there is no arguing that Maddux played for MUCH better teams [100 win teams 4 times plus 90 win teams anoth 4] than Clemens [played for a team that finished below .500 4 times]. Clemens is also 12-8 in post season pitching [despite his reputation as not being a big game pitcher] versus Maddux at 11-14. Maddux was dominating behind the strength of his defense, there's no question. As good as we was, we can only wonder how Clemens would have done on that team and in that league. My top 3 - because that's all that matters - is Maddux, Clemens, Johnson.
January 8, 200719 yr Greg Maddux Tom Glavine Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Randy Johnson John Smoltz Mike Mussina Kevin Brown David Cone Chuck Finley I agree. I should add that if the decade was from 1996-2005, Pedro Martinez would be on top of that list, without a doubt.
January 8, 200719 yr if the decade was from 1996-2005, Pedro Martinez would be on top of that list, without a doubt. I'll give you that. However, since Pedro didn't really start pitching until '93, he didn't rack up the numbers that Clemens, RJ, and Maddux did. He had 3 great years in that time period while the others had 5 or 6. For example; Pedro had the best ERA twice while RJ did it twice leading the league in K's 5 times, Maddux had it 4 times, and Clemens had it 5 times [1/2 of the decade] while leading the league in K's 4 times. Once you start throwing in stats like CG and IP, the argument for Pedro becomes even weaker.
January 8, 200719 yr Pedro between 1998 and 2000 was absolutely dominating. Check out these numbers: 1998: 19-7 233IP 2.89 ERA 251 SO 1.09 WHIP 3.75 K/BB 1999: 23-4 213IP 2.07 ERA 313 SO 0.92 WHIP 8.46 K/BB 2000: 18-6 217IP 1.74 ERA 284 SO 0.74 WHIP 8.88 K/BB Those numbers are from the peak of the "juice ball era." I don't think any other pitcher on this list compiled three dominating seasons like Pedro did 1998-2000.
January 8, 200719 yr 1. Roger Clemens 2. Greg Maddux 3. Randy Johnson 4. Tom Glavine 5. Pedro Martinez 6. Kevin Brown 7. John Smoltz 8. Mike Mussina 9. Curt Schilling 10. Andy Pettitte
January 8, 200719 yr I don't think any other pitcher on this list compiled three dominating seasons like Pedro did 1998-2000. Check out Sandy Koufax's numbers from 1962-1966. :thumbup As far as this list goes, check out Maddux 93-95. Also, check this out: 2004: 18-4 215IP 2.98 ERA 218 SO 1.15 WHIP Age 41 2005: 13-8 212IP 1.87 ERA 185 SO 1.00 WHIP Age 42 2006: 7-6 114IP 2.30 ERA 102 SO 1.05 WHIP Age 43 How has Pedro compared over the last 3 seasons? THAT is what makes Clemens so dominating. He put up numbers like this every year throughout his career. You can find lots of guys who put up awesome numbers for 3-6 year stretches [Donnie Baseball would be in the HOF for '84 - '89 alone] but guys like Clemens and Aaron who can put up stellar numbers every year for over twenty consecutive years are far more rare. I'm not knocking Pedro, but that is how good Clemens has been - especially in the given era for this argument.
January 8, 200719 yr Author Top 4 are a given, IMO *Just stats from 1990-1999 Greg Maddux 4 Cy Young Awards in the 90's ('92, '93, '94, '95) 331 GS, 176-88, 2.54 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 1764 K (6.63 K/9) Randy Johnson 2 Cy Young Awards in the 90's ('95, '99) 290 GS, 150-75, 3.14 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 2538 K (11.06 K/9) Roger Clemens 3 Cy Young Awards in the 90's ('91, '97, '98) 305 GS, 152-89, 3.02 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 2101 K (8.68 K/9) Tom Glavine 2 Cy Young Awards in the 90's ('91, '98) 327 GS, 164-87, 3.21 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 1465 K (5.92)
January 8, 200719 yr Pitcher / Wins / Losses / Innings / ERA / ERA+ 1. Maddux - 176 / 88 / 2395 / 2.54 / 174 2. Clemens - 152 / 89 / 2178 / 3.02 / 163 3. Glavine - 164 / 87 / 2228 / 3.21 / 133 4. Johnson - 150 / 75 / 2064 / 3.15 / 146 Pedro and Mussina didn't pitch the full decade: Pedro - 107 / 50 / 1359 / 2.83 / 167 Mussina - 136 / 66 / 1772 / 3.50 / 135
January 9, 200719 yr Top 4 are a given, IMO *Just stats from 1990-1999 Greg Maddux Randy Johnson Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Good post. I'll buy it.
January 9, 200719 yr 1. Greg Maddux 2. Roger Clemens 3. Randy Johnson 4. Tom Glavine 5. Pedro Martinez 6. Mike Mussina 7. David Cone 8. Kevin Brown 9. John Smoltz 10. Ramon Martinez Is it just me, or did almost every great pitcher in the 1990s end up with either the Mets or Yankees at one point in their career?
January 9, 200719 yr Is it just me, or did almost every great pitcher in the 1990s end up with either the Mets or Yankees at one point in their career? Not Maddux or Smoltz. Yet. :shifty
January 9, 200719 yr I don't think any other pitcher on this list compiled three dominating seasons like Pedro did 1998-2000. Check out Sandy Koufax's numbers from 1962-1966. :thumbup As far as this list goes, check out Maddux 93-95. Also, check this out: 2004: 18-4 215IP 2.98 ERA 218 SO 1.15 WHIP Age 41 2005: 13-8 212IP 1.87 ERA 185 SO 1.00 WHIP Age 42 2006: 7-6 114IP 2.30 ERA 102 SO 1.05 WHIP Age 43 How has Pedro compared over the last 3 seasons? THAT is what makes Clemens so dominating. He put up numbers like this every year throughout his career. You can find lots of guys who put up awesome numbers for 3-6 year stretches [Donnie Baseball would be in the HOF for '84 - '89 alone] but guys like Clemens and Aaron who can put up stellar numbers every year for over twenty consecutive years are far more rare. I'm not knocking Pedro, but that is how good Clemens has been - especially in the given era for this argument. Check out the bold. Koufax pitched during the dead ball era. Pedro pitched during the "juice ball era." Enough said.
January 10, 200719 yr 1. Jimmy Key 2. Bobby J. Jones 3. Bobby Witt 4. Anthony Young 5. Jason Bere 6. Teddy Higuera 7. Billy Swift 8. Ben McDonald 9. Jack McDowell 10. Bob Tewksbury
January 10, 200719 yr 1. Jimmy Key 2. Bobby J. Jones 3. Bobby Witt 4. Anthony Young 5. Jason Bere 6. Teddy Higuera 7. Billy Swift 8. Ben McDonald 9. Jack McDowell 10. Bob Tewksbury :lol
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