February 13, 200719 yr My lineup: SS Ramirez RF Hermida 3B Cabrera 1B Jacobs LF Willingham 2B Uggla CF Borchard/Ross C Olivo so, i agree with lou Like I thought....Borchard is on the outside looking in.....he's lucky to be in the majors My lineup: SS Ramirez RF Hermida 3B Cabrera 1B Jacobs LF Willingham 2B Uggla CF Borchard/Ross C Olivo so, i agree with lou Why would you put Hermida in the 2 hole with Uggla having an all star year there last year????? BTW, Uggla and Willingham are better hitters than Jacobs so why would you bat them below him? you cant say they r better hitters then jake yes they had better years but if you look at jakes minor league Numbers they are better then them both so lets just see how he plays this year. Jake's minor league numbers are a little better than Uggla, sure... but he then proved it in the majors last year (even if Jake was hurt). Don't even compare his numbers to those of Willingham's minor league ones. It's not even close
February 13, 200719 yr The CapeFish Lineup: 1. SS Hanley Ramirez 2. 2B Dan Uggla 3. 3B Miguel Cabrera 4. 1B Mike Jacobs 5. LF Josh Willingham 6. C Miguel Olivo 7. RF Jeremy Hermida/Cody Ross/Joe Borchard 8. CF Cody Ross/Joe Borchard/Jesus Christ...whomever is out there 9. The Pitcher
February 13, 200719 yr So far I'm leaning toward's Cape's lineup. I like Jacobs hitting after Cabrera for a number of reasons but of course whoever is in that spot has prove himself to be a big run producer.
February 13, 200719 yr Sounds to me like he still doesn't know who he wants to close games yet, with Nolasco getting some starts in ST and then maybe converting to the pen. I was just looking at MLB.com's fantasy rankings, and they seem to think that both Tankersley and Nolasco will split save opportunities. They like Tank's performance from last year, but think he needs to cut down on his walks to earn the closer's role. They also like Nolasco's numbers out of the pen last year. They had projections up for both. I think they had Nolasco with 13 saves with an ERA of about 3.82 in 60 IP, and they had Tank with 17 saves with an ERA of 3.14 in 75 IP. They had Tank ranked as the 28th best reliever in the majors (fantasy value) and Nolasco as the 35th best. I was also shocked that neither one of the two pitchers we got from the Mets(Owen, Lindstrom) were listed. If this turns out to be the case, though, with Nolasco helping close, I'm pretty sure Mitre will be back in the rotation. Oh yeah, and Petit was listed as the last reliever on their list. They're not even sure he'll make the team. Something about how when he was with the Mets, his critics always said he would never have success at the upper levels, and so far, that's been true with sub-par AAA numbers and not-so-hot numbers in the majors. They say his upside is that he's only 22, but they counter with: "But who on the Marlins staff isn't?" Let's see, what else....they think Hanley will make a run at .300, 20 HR, 70 RBI, 50 Stl....Uggla will continue to post numbers similar to his second half drop-off from last season....Olivo will continue to not hit well....Jacobs could hit 25 HR's if he faces enough RHP....Willingham will post 30 HR, 90 RBI....Hermida will hit .280 with 15 HR's....Willis will have another solid season....they're not buying into Olsen, or Sanchez(think they will both break down after so many IP's last year)....ARE buying into JJ's ERA from last season....and only the obvious left...Cabs will be awesome!
February 13, 200719 yr My lineup: SS Ramirez RF Hermida 3B Cabrera 1B Jacobs LF Willingham 2B Uggla CF Borchard/Ross C Olivo so, i agree with lou I think uggla's too good of a hitter to bat him that low in the order Agreed. Plus I think trying to make it R-L-R-L is overrated. Many righties hit righties better than lefties. I don't think it is a bad idea but batting a guy that hit 27 HR 7th is not right. I would go: Ramirez CF (hopefully fast, good OBP) Uggla Cabs Hammer Time Jake Hermida Olivo Unless Hermida starts tearing it up early on then I would change it up. But as of right now, that's what I'd try.
February 13, 200719 yr Putting aside the fact that batting order has a nominal effect on expected runs over the course of a season, here's mine: Hermida Hanley Cabs Jake Willingham Uggla Ross/Borchard (I am set that this is who I want out there. Read moneyball and you'll see my thoughts on defense in the chapter on Jeremy Giambi) Olivo Pitcher
February 13, 200719 yr Ramirez CF (hopefully fast, good OBP) first of all, we have no good OBP CFs and secondly, if we did, I would hope he would hit before Hanley
February 13, 200719 yr In my opinion, you've got to get your best hitters the most AB's. So until Hermida, Jacobs, Olivo, and CF prove themselves as being good hitters, they will be filling out the bottom four spots in the lineup, regardless of whether they're lefthanded, righthanded, or if they can hit the ball blindfolded. The only real debate should be whether to hit Jacobs 5th and Hermida 6th, or Hermida 5th and Jacobs 6th. I think you hit Hermida 5th, because he'll have a higher OBP over the course of a "healthy" season. "If the wheel's not broken, don't fix it." 1.Ramirez 2.Uggla 3.Cabrera 4.Willingham 5.Hermida 6.Jacobs 7.Olivo 8.CF
February 14, 200719 yr Ramirez - SS Uggla - 2nd Cabrera - 3rd Willingham - LF Jacobs - 1st Hermida - RF CF - my preference being between Ross and E.Reed (flpping Reed and Olivo when Reed Starts) Olivo - C Willis - P
February 14, 200719 yr I don't think this will happen, but here's a thought for down the road, assuming Alex Sanchez can return to form maintaining long term a batting avg around 320 as he was in 05. 1 - SS Ramirez 2 - CF Sanchez 3 - 2B Uggla 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - LF Willingham 6 - 1B Jacobs 7 - C Olivo 8 - RF Hermida Assuming better performances from Hermida and Jacobs, here's something else just for fun 1 - RF Hermida 2 - SS Ramirez 3 - 1B Jacobs 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - 2B Uggla 6 - LF Willingham 7 - CF Sanchez (or whoever) 8 - C Olivo I tend to think the impact of Cabrera being #3 is overstated, just because I think the team in 06 had some of their best stretches with Jacobs going #3 before him. My main idea with the top of both lineups is start with someone who will be on base (and will run in Hanley's case) and follow them up with someone who can move them over. Id rather have Sanchez sac-bunting than Uggla, and he would also stand a chance at beating out the throw in that case. But I wouldn't mind keeping either Uggla or Jacobs hitting in front of Cabrera. They may need the boost more than Cabrera. Hammer is Hammer, and should be in the middle of the order, driving people in. Could go either way with him and Uggla on the second lineup, but there's only so much space. Hitting Olivo 7th on the first lineup was just to break up the Lefty-Lefty lineup thing. I wouldn't mind it with Sanchez though since he hits LHP better anyway. Same way Cabrera is slightly better vs RHP.
February 14, 200719 yr those are terrible and would never happen Well that was very constructive and well thought out. Thanks :thumbup
February 14, 200719 yr I don't think this will happen, but here's a thought for down the road, assuming Alex Sanchez can return to form maintaining long term a batting avg around 320 as he was in 05. 1 - SS Ramirez 2 - CF Sanchez 3 - 2B Uggla 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - LF Willingham 6 - 1B Jacobs 7 - C Olivo 8 - RF Hermida Assuming better performances from Hermida and Jacobs, here's something else just for fun 1 - RF Hermida 2 - SS Ramirez 3 - 1B Jacobs 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - 2B Uggla 6 - LF Willingham 7 - CF Sanchez (or whoever) 8 - C Olivo I tend to think the impact of Cabrera being #3 is overstated, just because I think the team in 06 had some of their best stretches with Jacobs going #3 before him. My main idea with the top of both lineups is start with someone who will be on base (and will run in Hanley's case) and follow them up with someone who can move them over. Id rather have Sanchez sac-bunting than Uggla, and he would also stand a chance at beating out the throw in that case. But I wouldn't mind keeping either Uggla or Jacobs hitting in front of Cabrera. They may need the boost more than Cabrera. Hammer is Hammer, and should be in the middle of the order, driving people in. Could go either way with him and Uggla on the second lineup, but there's only so much space. Hitting Olivo 7th on the first lineup was just to break up the Lefty-Lefty lineup thing. I wouldn't mind it with Sanchez though since he hits LHP better anyway. Same way Cabrera is slightly better vs RHP. The team wasn't good because Jacobs was hitting 3rd...Jacobs was good because he was hitting in front of Cabrera. Just like Uggla didn't shine until he went into the 2-hole. Just try taking Miggy off this team and see how many .260 hitters show up.
February 14, 200719 yr I don't think this will happen, but here's a thought for down the road, assuming Alex Sanchez can return to form maintaining long term a batting avg around 320 as he was in 05. 1 - SS Ramirez 2 - CF Sanchez 3 - 2B Uggla 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - LF Willingham 6 - 1B Jacobs 7 - C Olivo 8 - RF Hermida Assuming better performances from Hermida and Jacobs, here's something else just for fun 1 - RF Hermida 2 - SS Ramirez 3 - 1B Jacobs 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - 2B Uggla 6 - LF Willingham 7 - CF Sanchez (or whoever) 8 - C Olivo I tend to think the impact of Cabrera being #3 is overstated, just because I think the team in 06 had some of their best stretches with Jacobs going #3 before him. My main idea with the top of both lineups is start with someone who will be on base (and will run in Hanley's case) and follow them up with someone who can move them over. Id rather have Sanchez sac-bunting than Uggla, and he would also stand a chance at beating out the throw in that case. But I wouldn't mind keeping either Uggla or Jacobs hitting in front of Cabrera. They may need the boost more than Cabrera. Hammer is Hammer, and should be in the middle of the order, driving people in. Could go either way with him and Uggla on the second lineup, but there's only so much space. Hitting Olivo 7th on the first lineup was just to break up the Lefty-Lefty lineup thing. I wouldn't mind it with Sanchez though since he hits LHP better anyway. Same way Cabrera is slightly better vs RHP. The team wasn't good because Jacobs was hitting 3rd...Jacobs was good because he was hitting in front of Cabrera. Just like Uggla didn't shine until he went into the 2-hole. Just try taking Miggy off this team and see how many .260 hitters show up. Exactly right. So the question is which hitter would most benefit by hitting in front of Miggy? Jacobs or Uggla?
February 14, 200719 yr I don't think this will happen, but here's a thought for down the road, assuming Alex Sanchez can return to form maintaining long term a batting avg around 320 as he was in 05. 1 - SS Ramirez 2 - CF Sanchez 3 - 2B Uggla 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - LF Willingham 6 - 1B Jacobs 7 - C Olivo 8 - RF Hermida Assuming better performances from Hermida and Jacobs, here's something else just for fun 1 - RF Hermida 2 - SS Ramirez 3 - 1B Jacobs 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - 2B Uggla 6 - LF Willingham 7 - CF Sanchez (or whoever) 8 - C Olivo I tend to think the impact of Cabrera being #3 is overstated, just because I think the team in 06 had some of their best stretches with Jacobs going #3 before him. My main idea with the top of both lineups is start with someone who will be on base (and will run in Hanley's case) and follow them up with someone who can move them over. Id rather have Sanchez sac-bunting than Uggla, and he would also stand a chance at beating out the throw in that case. But I wouldn't mind keeping either Uggla or Jacobs hitting in front of Cabrera. They may need the boost more than Cabrera. Hammer is Hammer, and should be in the middle of the order, driving people in. Could go either way with him and Uggla on the second lineup, but there's only so much space. Hitting Olivo 7th on the first lineup was just to break up the Lefty-Lefty lineup thing. I wouldn't mind it with Sanchez though since he hits LHP better anyway. Same way Cabrera is slightly better vs RHP. I actually like the top lineup if Sanchez is the one to win the CF job. I just thought leave Hanley because he is now used to leadoff instead of moving him down to second. It's hilarious how people laugh at ideas before the season even starts but then things always happen like injuries and make many of these reality. Many of these guys have only played 1-2 years so saying that this person or that person wouldn't be a good fit based on 1 year doesn't make sense. Expect 1-2 of these guys to under-perform this year.
February 14, 200719 yr trick question. Hermida is the answer. Cabrera absolutely must hit #3 so you cant have Jake at #2 for several reasons. You want 2 guys who get on base at an average or better clip and with average or better speed in front of Cabrera because he makes so few outs and hits a lot of doubles. but, I also agree that Hermida needs to prove himself first and that trial must come towards the bottom of the order.
February 14, 200719 yr My Lineup 1. Ramirez - SS 2. Hermida - RF 3. Uggla - 2B 4. Cabrera - 3B 5. Jacobs - 1B 6. Willingham - LF 7. Olivo - C 8. Sanchez - CF 9. Pitcher
February 14, 200719 yr trick question. Hermida is the answer. Cabrera absolutely must hit #3 so you cant have Jake at #2 for several reasons. You want 2 guys who get on base at an average or better clip and with average or better speed in front of Cabrera because he makes so few outs and hits a lot of doubles. but, I also agree that Hermida needs to prove himself first and that trial must come towards the bottom of the order. I agree. At the moment the choice is between Uggla and Jacobs, so I vote for Uggla.
February 14, 200719 yr I don't think this will happen, but here's a thought for down the road, assuming Alex Sanchez can return to form maintaining long term a batting avg around 320 as he was in 05. 1 - SS Ramirez 2 - CF Sanchez 3 - 2B Uggla 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - LF Willingham 6 - 1B Jacobs 7 - C Olivo 8 - RF Hermida Assuming better performances from Hermida and Jacobs, here's something else just for fun 1 - RF Hermida 2 - SS Ramirez 3 - 1B Jacobs 4 - 3B Cabrera 5 - 2B Uggla 6 - LF Willingham 7 - CF Sanchez (or whoever) 8 - C Olivo I tend to think the impact of Cabrera being #3 is overstated, just because I think the team in 06 had some of their best stretches with Jacobs going #3 before him. My main idea with the top of both lineups is start with someone who will be on base (and will run in Hanley's case) and follow them up with someone who can move them over. Id rather have Sanchez sac-bunting than Uggla, and he would also stand a chance at beating out the throw in that case. But I wouldn't mind keeping either Uggla or Jacobs hitting in front of Cabrera. They may need the boost more than Cabrera. Hammer is Hammer, and should be in the middle of the order, driving people in. Could go either way with him and Uggla on the second lineup, but there's only so much space. Hitting Olivo 7th on the first lineup was just to break up the Lefty-Lefty lineup thing. I wouldn't mind it with Sanchez though since he hits LHP better anyway. Same way Cabrera is slightly better vs RHP. The team wasn't good because Jacobs was hitting 3rd...Jacobs was good because he was hitting in front of Cabrera. Just like Uggla didn't shine until he went into the 2-hole. Just try taking Miggy off this team and see how many .260 hitters show up. Exactly right. So the question is which hitter would most benefit by hitting in front of Miggy? Jacobs or Uggla? Well, of the two, I think Uggla's the more capable hitter, so I'd go with him, but in all honesty, the best to go in front of Miggy is Hermida and to a lesser extent Willy.
February 14, 200719 yr The team wasn't good because Jacobs was hitting 3rd...Jacobs was good because he was hitting in front of Cabrera. Just like Uggla didn't shine until he went into the 2-hole. Just try taking Miggy off this team and see how many .260 hitters show up. My point is that if you're going to try to get a good contribution from Jacobs or Uggla (And I would hope that you are), in front of Cabrera is a good place to put them. I still believe that a healthy Jacobs can be well above average (just think back to that stretch in 05 with the Mets when he wasn't hitting in front of Cabrera). Cabrera will hit well anywhere in the lineup, although you do want to maximize his and Hanley's ABs, I think there's more to assembling a lineup than who gets how many ABs. To be quite honest...I really don't blame him. Sanchez hitting second? Assuming Sanchez is batting near 324 with an OBP of 353 (his 05 #s), which is how I prefaced that lineup, what would be so bad about him going #2? please explain why having a guy who can put the ball in play that effectively bunting behind our best baserunner is a bad idea? Now if you don't think Sanchez will perform up to that level - fine. That's a different argument though. Right now you don't want to maximize the number of ABs Jacobs gets. And Hermida?
February 14, 200719 yr Assuming Sanchez is batting near 324 with an OBP of 353 (his 05 #s), which is how I prefaced that lineup, what would be so bad about him going #2? please explain why having a guy who can put the ball in play that effectively bunting behind our best baserunner is a bad idea? Now if you don't think Sanchez will perform up to that level - fine. That's a different argument though. That's a huuuuge assumption, no?
February 14, 200719 yr Assuming Sanchez is batting near 324 with an OBP of 353 (his 05 #s), which is how I prefaced that lineup, what would be so bad about him going #2? please explain why having a guy who can put the ball in play that effectively bunting behind our best baserunner is a bad idea? Now if you don't think Sanchez will perform up to that level - fine. That's a different argument though. That's a huuuuge assumption, no? big, sure. I don't know if it's huge. It's not like I'm assuming Reggie will bat 350, when his only ML season he was batting in the 210-220 range, or that Eric Reed will suddenly hit 300 when he can't hit over 100. Sanchez actually hit 323 over the course of the 04 and 05 seasons (combined), with an OBP of 342. I never said I was expecting it to happen, but if the guy was hitting for about the same average for 2 seasons, I don't see why it would be beyond the realm of possibility to so many of you. Likely or not, something in the 300-320 range isn't unrealistic.
February 14, 200719 yr Assuming Sanchez is batting near 324 with an OBP of 353 (his 05 #s), which is how I prefaced that lineup, what would be so bad about him going #2? please explain why having a guy who can put the ball in play that effectively bunting behind our best baserunner is a bad idea? Now if you don't think Sanchez will perform up to that level - fine. That's a different argument though. That's a huuuuge assumption, no? big, sure. I don't know if it's huge. It's not like I'm assuming Reggie will bat 350, when his only ML season he was batting in the 210-220 range, or that Eric Reed will suddenly hit 300 when he can't hit over 100. Sanchez actually hit 323 over the course of the 04 and 05 seasons (combined), with an OBP of 342. I never said I was expecting it to happen, but if the guy was hitting for about the same average for 2 seasons, I don't see why it would be beyond the realm of possibility to so many of you. Likely or not, something in the 300-320 range isn't unrealistic. Considering he struggled in the minors in 2006, that and I dont personally see him winning the CF job, it is to me a pretty big assumption. But I hope he does hit that well
February 14, 200719 yr Considering he struggled in the minors in 2006, that and I dont personally see him winning the CF job, it is to me a pretty big assumption. But I hope he does hit that well And Mike Lowell hit like 230 in 2005. Player's sometimes have entire seasons that go really bad. And while Lowell didn't hit at quite the same level as before then in 2006, he did show that 2005 wasn't indicative of his offensive abilities. Sanchez may not hit 324. But if he's hitting in the 300-310 range consistently, he would still be a good fit there.
February 14, 200719 yr even if he somehow manages to hit 300+ (an admitted stretch) he's still not a good fit as the leadoff man considering the other people we have. There's no way Id take away the Hanley/Uggla combination at the top of the order. Even if Uggla struggles there are options I'd try at #2 before Sanchez. I hope he does hit something like 300/325/370 (assuming he wins the job), but I dont want him leading off. Thankfully Fredi Gonzalez agrees with me from what Ive read.
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