http://capefish.blogspot.com/2007/05/updat...to-dolphin.html

 

Getting closer to being done.

good orange bowl, though I love it, is a dump

good orange bowl, though I love it, is a dump

 

Its a dump yes, but it still the orange bowl. I think its a big mistake to move the team so far away from campus.

Tear it down already. From what i've read the city's offer is about $100-$150 million toward renovations. By most accounts it will take double that to propertly renovate the OB. In fact, according to the Herald, the current offer would limit renovations of new restrooms and concession areas to the south side of the building. There is absolutely no good reason to spend that kind of money and do half of a job. UM moving to DS is a win-win for all involved. The university stands to make millions more each season playing there, Dolphin Stadium gets another high profile tenant, and the move helps the Marlins, the city, and county to finally resolve the Marlins stadium deal.

I still love going to Um games in the OB because of the noise and rattling. That is all is has-the history and tradition and big games are just memories and memories won't go away. The stadium is a dump and all the tradition does nothing to impress this age of recruits. They are impressed by S. Florida and a winning tradition and walking into a state of the art stadium with their pictures on the scoreboard. The OB no longer helps in recruiting and making money for the U and in the competitive world of college athletics, since an on campus stadium is an impossibility, the move is necessary for the U for the extra money as well as the impact on recruiting.

I am a Gator grad, but no one loves the canes more than me, and while you cannot compete with a big state school when it comes to money and campus feel, the move to DS is necessary. The old bowl could only compete if it was torn down and rebuilt, and that won't happen.

 

The students will find a way, the school will bus them etc., because for many games, there are so few students going anyway.

 

Now, the city of miami can use the money for the new Marlin stadium.

I think people should realize that Doak Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee and Ben Hill Griffin Stadium in Gainesville have been torn down in sections and rebuilt over the years. The Orange Bowl is still pretty much the same base structure it was in the 1940's-1950's.

 

Even the Gator Bowl was torn down and rebuilt as Jacksonville Municipal Stadium (formerly Alltel Stadium) for the Jaguars.

The Canes should build an on campus stadium. They have the resources to do it. What's the stumbling block for an on campus stadium? Is it Coral Gables zoning or UM's cheapness?

The Canes should build an on campus stadium. They have the resources to do it. What's the stumbling block for an on campus stadium? Is it Coral Gables zoning or UM's cheapness?

 

 

a mixture of both...but more twords Coral Gables not wanting a stadium in their city

It's a shame Miami can't get the best of both worlds. The Orange Bowl is part of Hurricanes Football and while I think change is good, it would be a shame to see the OB torn down, even if it results in the site becoming the new stadium for the Fish. Unfortunately the county and city just don't have enough money to give some to the 'Canes for OB renovations. But the alternative of cutting Marlins funding to help renovate the OB, leads me to be in favor of da 'U' moving to Dolphin Stadium.

The Canes should build an on campus stadium. They have the resources to do it. What's the stumbling block for an on campus stadium? Is it Coral Gables zoning or UM's cheapness?

Resources? I think many people read too much into UM's designation as a private school. In college sports, state schools are, by far, the fat cats. They're the ones with massive athletic budgets. They're the ones who can afford to spend money on new facilities and high-priced personnel.

 

Very rarely will you hear about a private school being a major player in multiple sports. Private schools just don't have the government-subsidized budgets to invest heavily in athletics. Instead, they have to cater to those who pay tuition, while remaining mindful of the fact that spending heavily on athletics will make the school less competitive from a cost perspective.

 

Anyway, to answer your question, I doubt a privately-financed football stadium would be feasible, particularly if it's located in CG.

UM and DS seem to be working on a lease-term (Wayne wants 5 years, UM wants 20 years) and revenue sharing (Wayne wants more to DS, UM wants a more even split).....seems like a deal should be done soon.

 

Why build a football stadium when their is a modern, state-of-the-art NFL facility in town that is available?

That lease better be extremely long.

 

This is about the only time UM will have leverage in negotiations with Wayne. Once they move out, the OB will be gone.

That lease better be extremely long.

 

This is about the only time UM will have leverage in negotiations with Wayne. Once they move out, the OB will be gone.

Agreed :thumbup

 

Not only does this help the Canes, but the rest of the ACC and any opponents the Canes host. More money for all if it happens.

That lease better be extremely long.

 

This is about the only time UM will have leverage in negotiations with Wayne. Once they move out, the OB will be gone.

Agreed :thumbup

 

Not only does this help the Canes, but the rest of the ACC and any opponents the Canes host. More money for all if it happens.

Cape, your assessment is correct. The holdup is Wayne wanting more money from revenue derived from seat licenses etc. as well as the issue of the length of the deal. We all know what happens if you let Wayne dictate the terms. I believe the UM reps are a lot smarter than John Henry, who let Wayne intimidate him-ahh, thats another thread but it does bring back memories of Wayne publicly insulting John Henry as he was wavering on the Marlin purchase.

Shalala vs. Wayne....two of my favorite villains.

 

Anyone want some popcorn?

The Canes should build an on campus stadium. They have the resources to do it. What's the stumbling block for an on campus stadium? Is it Coral Gables zoning or UM's cheapness?

Resources? I think many people read too much into UM's designation as a private school. In college sports, state schools are, by far, the fat cats. They're the ones with massive athletic budgets. They're the ones who can afford to spend money on new facilities and high-priced personnel.

 

Very rarely will you hear about a private school being a major player in multiple sports. Private schools just don't have the government-subsidized budgets to invest heavily in athletics. Instead, they have to cater to those who pay tuition, while remaining mindful of the fact that spending heavily on athletics will make the school less competitive from a cost perspective.

 

Anyway, to answer your question, I doubt a privately-financed football stadium would be feasible, particularly if it's located in CG.

 

 

What would be the cost of a 50k capacity on campus stadium? Maybe $250 or $300 million?

 

What's room & board at UM nowadays? How many students at UM? If you bump up tuition and room & board by a couple of percentage points how much would you collect a year? Ballpark around $20 million a year. Add luxury boxes, premium seating, naming rights, advertising, etc. to the $20 million and UM can well afford to pay for their own stadium.

 

I would prefer if UM students and UM football fans pay for the stadium as opposed to people who will never go to one of the six football games a year. As a city resident that the city would even consider renovating the OB makes me fume.

UM would need a much larger endowment to justify spending 300 million on a stadium.

What would be the cost of a 50k capacity on campus stadium? Maybe $250 or $300 million?

 

What's room & board at UM nowadays? How many students at UM? If you bump up tuition and room & board by a couple of percentage points how much would you collect a year? Ballpark around $20 million a year. Add luxury boxes, premium seating, naming rights, advertising, etc. to the $20 million and UM can well afford to pay for their own stadium.

 

I would prefer if UM students and UM football fans pay for the stadium as opposed to people who will never go to one of the six football games a year. As a city resident that the city would even consider renovating the OB makes me fume.

In that case, you must be opposed to the idea of public financing of stadiums for privately-owned teams like the Marlins.

 

The Hurricanes are South Florida's college football team. Whether it belongs to a university, or whether that university is public or private, is irrelevant.

 

In fact, as the county's second-largest non-governmental employer, one would think the University of Miami would have a much better case for public support than Jeffrey Loria.

What would be the cost of a 50k capacity on campus stadium? Maybe $250 or $300 million?

 

What's room & board at UM nowadays? How many students at UM? If you bump up tuition and room & board by a couple of percentage points how much would you collect a year? Ballpark around $20 million a year. Add luxury boxes, premium seating, naming rights, advertising, etc. to the $20 million and UM can well afford to pay for their own stadium.

 

I would prefer if UM students and UM football fans pay for the stadium as opposed to people who will never go to one of the six football games a year. As a city resident that the city would even consider renovating the OB makes me fume.

In that case, you must be opposed to the idea of public financing of stadiums for privately-owned teams like the Marlins.

 

The Hurricanes are South Florida's college football team. Whether it belongs to a university, or whether that university is public or private, is irrelevant.

 

In fact, as the county's second-largest non-governmental employer, one would think the University of Miami would have a much better case for public support than Jeffrey Loria.

 

The ratio of fans that will attend Marlins games compared to UM games must be around 10:1 or something like that and I'm no fan of Loria but he's pledged $212 million (plus overruns) for the stadium while UM is unwilling to make firm commitments.

 

UM would need a much larger endowment to justify spending 300 million on a stadium.

What's does the endowment have to do with raising stadium money via increases in student fees and monies collected from luxury boxes, premium seating, advertising, etc?

What would be the cost of a 50k capacity on campus stadium? Maybe $250 or $300 million?

 

What's room & board at UM nowadays? How many students at UM? If you bump up tuition and room & board by a couple of percentage points how much would you collect a year? Ballpark around $20 million a year. Add luxury boxes, premium seating, naming rights, advertising, etc. to the $20 million and UM can well afford to pay for their own stadium.

 

I would prefer if UM students and UM football fans pay for the stadium as opposed to people who will never go to one of the six football games a year. As a city resident that the city would even consider renovating the OB makes me fume.

In that case, you must be opposed to the idea of public financing of stadiums for privately-owned teams like the Marlins.

 

The Hurricanes are South Florida's college football team. Whether it belongs to a university, or whether that university is public or private, is irrelevant.

 

In fact, as the county's second-largest non-governmental employer, one would think the University of Miami would have a much better case for public support than Jeffrey Loria.

 

The ratio of fans that will attend Marlins games compared to UM games must be around 10:1 or something like that and I'm no fan of Loria but he's pledged $212 million (plus overruns) for the stadium while UM is unwilling to make firm commitments.

the ratio doesn't matter, since it still a very small percentage of the population

What would be the cost of a 50k capacity on campus stadium? Maybe $250 or $300 million?

 

What's room & board at UM nowadays? How many students at UM? If you bump up tuition and room & board by a couple of percentage points how much would you collect a year? Ballpark around $20 million a year. Add luxury boxes, premium seating, naming rights, advertising, etc. to the $20 million and UM can well afford to pay for their own stadium.

 

I would prefer if UM students and UM football fans pay for the stadium as opposed to people who will never go to one of the six football games a year. As a city resident that the city would even consider renovating the OB makes me fume.

In that case, you must be opposed to the idea of public financing of stadiums for privately-owned teams like the Marlins.

 

The Hurricanes are South Florida's college football team. Whether it belongs to a university, or whether that university is public or private, is irrelevant.

 

In fact, as the county's second-largest non-governmental employer, one would think the University of Miami would have a much better case for public support than Jeffrey Loria.

 

The ratio of fans that will attend Marlins games compared to UM games must be around 10:1 or something like that and I'm no fan of Loria but he's pledged $212 million (plus overruns) for the stadium while UM is unwilling to make firm commitments.

the ratio doesn't matter, since it still a very small percentage of the population

The difference between small (Marlins) and non-existent (UM) matters.. at least to me.

I for one do not have a problem with publicly financed sports venues. I think they add value to a community and promote growth in surrounding areas. I see spending public funds toward stadiums and areas just as justifable as spending public funds to build performing arts centers, museums, etc. That said, with all of the yelling and complaining people do when the Marlins stadium is brought up, I don't get the lack of outrage about the city offering upwards of $150 million to renovate the OB for a private university that plays 6 home games a season.

Louisville built Papa Johns Cardinal Stadium for $63,000,000 roughly 10 years ago, thats a 42K+ facility. They are talking about expanding it by 20K+ for another $63,000,000. So, if the stadium was built in full today like they planned at 63,000 capacity, about $200 mil.

 

Minnesotas new 50K seat stadium will cost $288 mil.

 

I could see why UM would want to stay away from a facility that could cost about $350,000,000 after land and what not.

Louisville built Papa Johns Cardinal Stadium for $63,000,000 roughly 10 years ago, thats a 42K+ facility. They are talking about expanding it by 20K+ for another $63,000,000. So, if the stadium was built in full today like they planned at 63,000 capacity, about $200 mil.

 

Minnesotas new 50K seat stadium will cost $288 mil.

 

I could see why UM would want to stay away from a facility that could cost about $350,000,000 after land and what not.

 

Which is why they will likely end up at Dolphin Stadium. To renovate the OB properly, it would cost at least $300 million. Hell, it's costing Wayne $250 million just to widen the concourses at DS.

The ratio of fans that will attend Marlins games compared to UM games must be around 10:1 or something like that and I'm no fan of Loria but he's pledged $212 million (plus overruns) for the stadium while UM is unwilling to make firm commitments.

UM is unwilling to make firm commitments for what? To pay the city to repair its run-down, city-owned Orange Bowl property? UM isn't exactly asking for a stadium to be built. The school has never had any ownership stake in the historic property, and the athletic program makes very little from playing there. That's why this talk of moving to Dolphins Stadium has popped up.

 

And I'm almost certain the total number people who attend get to see the Canes football games far outnumbers the number of people who get to attend Marlins games. My guess is that the ratio is closer to 5:1 in the other direction.

 

Oh, and living in South Florida my entire life, I think it's pretty laughable to compare the number of Canes football fans to the number of Marlins fans. I get annoyed more than anybody when people idiotically rip on the Marlins' fanbase, but even I'm willing to admit that that's a really foolish comparison. I mean, good lord, that's really outrageous. The Canes are much bigger in Miami.