July 30, 200719 yr Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea. Uggla > Luis In this case you have takin the "defense means nothing" mentality a little too far. Im not saying we should go out and get Luis but.......Luis > Uggla Or has Luis just been really really lucky in his career? :mischief Luis highest WARP3 in 2 seasons (2003 and 2005): 13.5 (5.2 of those wins coming from defense) Dan Uggla WARP3 in his first 2 years: 19.2 (6 of those wins coming from defense) Baseball prospectus finds Uggla to be a tremendously underrated fielder at an important defensive position, so that's where the gap in value comes from. But since I know most people will object to Uggla being a higher rated defender than Luis, even if Uggla was of neutral defensive value, his bat alone is worth as much as Luis' bat and glove were in his two best seasons. Granted it is entirely possible that being his 26 and 27 YO seasons, it's entirely possible he's peaked, but he's still tremendously valuable, moreso than Luis in any year with the Marllins. I am a stat guy for sure, love em and use em, but to me defensive stats are crap. I hate them. They can't possibly accurately account for range and fast twitch fibers that allow Castillo to get to balls that Uggla can't get to. It's as simple as watching them play. Watch Castillo play defense for a game then watch Uggla. No one in their right mind would compare the two. It's laughable. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid".
July 31, 200719 yr Castillo, when he was with the Marlins, was a better player than Uggla is now or that he will ever be. That said, Uggla is a good player with good power and currently a bargain for the Marlins. Better is a subjective statement. OBP: Castillo Defense: Castillo SLG: Uggla OPS: Uggla Lets just be happy that we've enjoyed such success at 2B from Quilvio Veras to present.
July 31, 200719 yr Castillo, when he was with the Marlins, was a better player than Uggla is now or that he will ever be. That said, Uggla is a good player with good power and currently a bargain for the Marlins. Better is a subjective statement. OBP: Castillo Defense: Castillo SLG: Uggla OPS: Uggla Lets just be happy that we've enjoyed such success at 2B from Quilvio Veras to present. I remember Quilvio! I thought, wow, he's got such a cool name. And then we didn't hear of him ever again.
July 31, 200719 yr Castillo, when he was with the Marlins, was a better player than Uggla is now or that he will ever be. That said, Uggla is a good player with good power and currently a bargain for the Marlins. Better is a subjective statement. OBP: Castillo Defense: Castillo SLG: Uggla OPS: Uggla Lets just be happy that we've enjoyed such success at 2B from Quilvio Veras to present. I remember Quilvio! I thought, wow, he's got such a cool name. And then we didn't hear of him ever again. Did he get hurt or something? Because he was a good OBP 2B and then... gone after one subpar season.
July 31, 200719 yr Castillo, when he was with the Marlins, was a better player than Uggla is now or that he will ever be. That said, Uggla is a good player with good power and currently a bargain for the Marlins. Better is a subjective statement. OBP: Castillo Defense: Castillo SLG: Uggla OPS: Uggla Lets just be happy that we've enjoyed such success at 2B from Quilvio Veras to present. I remember Quilvio! I thought, wow, he's got such a cool name. And then we didn't hear of him ever again. Did he get hurt or something? Because he was a good OBP 2B and then... gone after one subpar season. I think he went to San Diego and played until the Padres World Series run. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
July 31, 200719 yr I think he went to San Diego and played until the Padres World Series run. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. From here to the Padres for 97 and 98. Then to the Braves until 2001. I just don't know why his career ended, he was a quality player.
July 31, 200719 yr I think he went to San Diego and played until the Padres World Series run. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. From here to the Padres for 97 and 98. Then to the Braves until 2001. I just don't know why his career ended, he was a quality player. Injured shoulder as I recall. Injured his knee, lost his job to Marcus Giles, never came back.
July 31, 200719 yr You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up. Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade. oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup It's especially useless when you just say "lolz I know luis is better he was here for longer lolzolol" instead of backing it up with anything substantial. Show me anything other than an opinion that says that Luis is better. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid". WARP includes FRAA, which, like all fielding metrics is flawed, but in my opinion it is the least flawed of the numerous choices out there. But take out the defensive part of the metric, and Uggla is still worth 13 wins over two years over Luis' 7 (just with the bat). Unless you can tell me that you honestly think Luis Castillo's glove is worth 3 wins a season over Uggla's, then I still don't see how the argument can be made. In my opinion, Uggla is an above average defensive player. Luis had greater range, but I feel like there were times when the ball would just go right under his glove when he should've made a play. Luis was spectacular at times and he would slip up sometimes, whereas Uggla is steady but he doesn't make a lot of amazing plays. I'll give the edge to Luis in the glove, but it's not enough to make up for the serious disadvantage he has with the bat. It's not stupid to question something from Baseball Prospectus or anywhere, for that matter. It's stupid to dismiss it out of hand because you don't understand it or because you have your own instilled ideas that you refuse to change. It's absolutely possible that Luis was more valuable, but from where I'm standing I can't see it. I know it's awesome that he was a Marlin for a long time and played well for us and was there through thick and thin, but in my opinion (which has been backed up by numerous statistics), Uggla is the superior player.
July 31, 200719 yr Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea. Uggla > Luis In this case you have takin the "defense means nothing" mentality a little too far. Im not saying we should go out and get Luis but.......Luis > Uggla Or has Luis just been really really lucky in his career? :mischief Luis highest WARP3 in 2 seasons (2003 and 2005): 13.5 (5.2 of those wins coming from defense) Dan Uggla WARP3 in his first 2 years: 19.2 (6 of those wins coming from defense) Baseball prospectus finds Uggla to be a tremendously underrated fielder at an important defensive position, so that's where the gap in value comes from. But since I know most people will object to Uggla being a higher rated defender than Luis, even if Uggla was of neutral defensive value, his bat alone is worth as much as Luis' bat and glove were in his two best seasons. Granted it is entirely possible that being his 26 and 27 YO seasons, it's entirely possible he's peaked, but he's still tremendously valuable, moreso than Luis in any year with the Marllins. I am a stat guy for sure, love em and use em, but to me defensive stats are crap. I hate them. They can't possibly accurately account for range and fast twitch fibers that allow Castillo to get to balls that Uggla can't get to. It's as simple as watching them play. Watch Castillo play defense for a game then watch Uggla. No one in their right mind would compare the two. It's laughable. I agree. Stats are okay to a point. But you really have to be there and watch the guys to see what is truely going on. And being a defensive minded kind of guy...
July 31, 200719 yr You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up. Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade. oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup It's especially useless when you just say "lolz I know luis is better he was here for longer lolzolol" instead of backing it up with anything substantial. Show me anything other than an opinion that says that Luis is better. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid". WARP includes FRAA, which, like all fielding metrics is flawed, but in my opinion it is the least flawed of the numerous choices out there. But take out the defensive part of the metric, and Uggla is still worth 13 wins over two years over Luis' 7 (just with the bat). Unless you can tell me that you honestly think Luis Castillo's glove is worth 3 wins a season over Uggla's, then I still don't see how the argument can be made. In my opinion, Uggla is an above average defensive player. Luis had greater range, but I feel like there were times when the ball would just go right under his glove when he should've made a play. Luis was spectacular at times and he would slip up sometimes, whereas Uggla is steady but he doesn't make a lot of amazing plays. I'll give the edge to Luis in the glove, but it's not enough to make up for the serious disadvantage he has with the bat. It's not stupid to question something from Baseball Prospectus or anywhere, for that matter. It's stupid to dismiss it out of hand because you don't understand it or because you have your own instilled ideas that you refuse to change. It's absolutely possible that Luis was more valuable, but from where I'm standing I can't see it. I know it's awesome that he was a Marlin for a long time and played well for us and was there through thick and thin, but in my opinion (which has been backed up by numerous statistics), Uggla is the superior player. And you have a right to your opinion. Being a defensive minded person I think Castillo was hands down the better player. And I'll give up power numbers for a guy that consistently finds his way on base if there are power guys behind him. All that being said, I agree with some others on this topic. We have been very fortunate (and probably spoiled) with our 2Bmen over the years. If only Andino had any kind of bat he could make a run at that position. The range and arm are there if he could feel comfortable making the switch. Right now he is just a waste of defensive talent on our 40 man roster. No hope of making this team and should be traded for his own good.
July 31, 200719 yr You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up. Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade. oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup It's especially useless when you just say "lolz I know luis is better he was here for longer lolzolol" instead of backing it up with anything substantial. Show me anything other than an opinion that says that Luis is better. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid". WARP includes FRAA, which, like all fielding metrics is flawed, but in my opinion it is the least flawed of the numerous choices out there. But take out the defensive part of the metric, and Uggla is still worth 13 wins over two years over Luis' 7 (just with the bat). Unless you can tell me that you honestly think Luis Castillo's glove is worth 3 wins a season over Uggla's, then I still don't see how the argument can be made. In my opinion, Uggla is an above average defensive player. Luis had greater range, but I feel like there were times when the ball would just go right under his glove when he should've made a play. Luis was spectacular at times and he would slip up sometimes, whereas Uggla is steady but he doesn't make a lot of amazing plays. I'll give the edge to Luis in the glove, but it's not enough to make up for the serious disadvantage he has with the bat. It's not stupid to question something from Baseball Prospectus or anywhere, for that matter. It's stupid to dismiss it out of hand because you don't understand it or because you have your own instilled ideas that you refuse to change. It's absolutely possible that Luis was more valuable, but from where I'm standing I can't see it. I know it's awesome that he was a Marlin for a long time and played well for us and was there through thick and thin, but in my opinion (which has been backed up by numerous statistics), Uggla is the superior player. And you have a right to your opinion. Being a defensive minded person I think Castillo was hands down the better player. And I'll give up power numbers for a guy that consistently finds his way on base if there are power guys behind him. All that being said, I agree with some others on this topic. We have been very fortunate (and probably spoiled) with our 2Bmen over the years. If only Andino had any kind of bat he could make a run at that position. The range and arm are there if he could feel comfortable making the switch. Right now he is just a waste of defensive talent on our 40 man roster. No hope of making this team and should be traded for his own good. Even if Andino was a completely tolerable, average major league hitter, I wouldn't switch him with Uggla at 2nd base. You don't take Uggla's bat out of the lineup.
August 1, 200719 yr You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up. Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade. oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup It's especially useless when you just say "lolz I know luis is better he was here for longer lolzolol" instead of backing it up with anything substantial. Show me anything other than an opinion that says that Luis is better. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid". WARP includes FRAA, which, like all fielding metrics is flawed, but in my opinion it is the least flawed of the numerous choices out there. But take out the defensive part of the metric, and Uggla is still worth 13 wins over two years over Luis' 7 (just with the bat). Unless you can tell me that you honestly think Luis Castillo's glove is worth 3 wins a season over Uggla's, then I still don't see how the argument can be made. In my opinion, Uggla is an above average defensive player. Luis had greater range, but I feel like there were times when the ball would just go right under his glove when he should've made a play. Luis was spectacular at times and he would slip up sometimes, whereas Uggla is steady but he doesn't make a lot of amazing plays. I'll give the edge to Luis in the glove, but it's not enough to make up for the serious disadvantage he has with the bat. It's not stupid to question something from Baseball Prospectus or anywhere, for that matter. It's stupid to dismiss it out of hand because you don't understand it or because you have your own instilled ideas that you refuse to change. It's absolutely possible that Luis was more valuable, but from where I'm standing I can't see it. I know it's awesome that he was a Marlin for a long time and played well for us and was there through thick and thin, but in my opinion (which has been backed up by numerous statistics), Uggla is the superior player. And you have a right to your opinion. Being a defensive minded person I think Castillo was hands down the better player. And I'll give up power numbers for a guy that consistently finds his way on base if there are power guys behind him. All that being said, I agree with some others on this topic. We have been very fortunate (and probably spoiled) with our 2Bmen over the years. If only Andino had any kind of bat he could make a run at that position. The range and arm are there if he could feel comfortable making the switch. Right now he is just a waste of defensive talent on our 40 man roster. No hope of making this team and should be traded for his own good. Even if Andino was a completely tolerable, average major league hitter, I wouldn't switch him with Uggla at 2nd base. You don't take Uggla's bat out of the lineup. Okay. You like the power and I like a near the top of the order guy that gets on base frequently, has speed, and can wreak havoc on defenses. I like small ball. Especially when we have the guys with power behind small ballers and those top of the order guys play league leading defense. I think he would be better at 2B than Uggla. He has the range, speed to get to little bloopers, pretty much vacumn for glove, and good arm. If he could hit near the .300s with a high OBP then he could be a better player at that position. Question is...Would he feel comfortable playing there? If not, he needs to be traded in some sort of package deal. If for nothing else, for his own good. And yea I know there sure are alot of IFs in my response. But this is all just speculation. Uggla is fine where he is.
August 1, 200719 yr You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up. Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade. oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup It's especially useless when you just say "lolz I know luis is better he was here for longer lolzolol" instead of backing it up with anything substantial. Show me anything other than an opinion that says that Luis is better. If this WARP stat includes defensive stats in it then it's even more questionable than I previously thought. The funny thing is you'll have guys who acknowledge the limitations of defensive stats then turn around and use this WARP crap as if it's the bible even though WARP uses defensive stats... ridiculous. I guess it's against the law or something to question anything Baseball Prospectus says... if you question it then you're called "stupid". WARP includes FRAA, which, like all fielding metrics is flawed, but in my opinion it is the least flawed of the numerous choices out there. But take out the defensive part of the metric, and Uggla is still worth 13 wins over two years over Luis' 7 (just with the bat). Unless you can tell me that you honestly think Luis Castillo's glove is worth 3 wins a season over Uggla's, then I still don't see how the argument can be made. In my opinion, Uggla is an above average defensive player. Luis had greater range, but I feel like there were times when the ball would just go right under his glove when he should've made a play. Luis was spectacular at times and he would slip up sometimes, whereas Uggla is steady but he doesn't make a lot of amazing plays. I'll give the edge to Luis in the glove, but it's not enough to make up for the serious disadvantage he has with the bat. It's not stupid to question something from Baseball Prospectus or anywhere, for that matter. It's stupid to dismiss it out of hand because you don't understand it or because you have your own instilled ideas that you refuse to change. It's absolutely possible that Luis was more valuable, but from where I'm standing I can't see it. I know it's awesome that he was a Marlin for a long time and played well for us and was there through thick and thin, but in my opinion (which has been backed up by numerous statistics), Uggla is the superior player. And you have a right to your opinion. Being a defensive minded person I think Castillo was hands down the better player. And I'll give up power numbers for a guy that consistently finds his way on base if there are power guys behind him. All that being said, I agree with some others on this topic. We have been very fortunate (and probably spoiled) with our 2Bmen over the years. If only Andino had any kind of bat he could make a run at that position. The range and arm are there if he could feel comfortable making the switch. Right now he is just a waste of defensive talent on our 40 man roster. No hope of making this team and should be traded for his own good. Even if Andino was a completely tolerable, average major league hitter, I wouldn't switch him with Uggla at 2nd base. You don't take Uggla's bat out of the lineup. Okay. You like the power and I like a near the top of the order guy that gets on base frequently, has speed, and can wreak havoc on defenses. I like small ball. Especially when we have the guys with power behind small ballers and those top of the order guys play league leading defense. I think he would be better at 2B than Uggla. He has the range, speed to get to little bloopers, pretty much vacumn for glove, and good arm. If he could hit near the .300s with a high OBP then he could be a better player at that position. Question is...Would he feel comfortable playing there? If not, he needs to be traded in some sort of package deal. If for nothing else, for his own good. And yea I know there sure are alot of IFs in my response. But this is all just speculation. Uggla is fine where he is. So, basically you are saying if Robert Andino wasn't Robert Andino and instead was, say Luis Castillo, you would want him to play 2nd base over Uggla. Cool.
August 5, 200719 yr all of his (your) updates have been really good. is he gonna come back soon? I sure as hell hope so this team needs a spark and they are not getting it from Amezaga
August 5, 200719 yr Author all of his (your) updates have been really good. is he gonna come back soon? yep, he's close
August 5, 200719 yr all of his (your) updates have been really good. is he gonna come back soon? yep, he's close So, he'll be called up soon? I'd figure it'd be benificial for him to get as many AB's as possible. So, unless Freddi is going to give him the CF job, wouldn't it be better for him to stay in AAA or AA?
August 5, 200719 yr all of his (your) updates have been really good. is he gonna come back soon? yep, he's close So, he'll be called up soon? I'd figure it'd be benificial for him to get as many AB's as possible. So, unless Freddi is going to give him the CF job, wouldn't it be better for him to stay in AAA or AA? I say that there's no reason that he shouldn't be getting ABs up here. He won the job in ST for a reason, let's give him a shot. Amezega isn't horrible but he isn't a longterm answer either, while I doubt De Aza is truly either we need to see what he's got. He sure looked pretty good when he was playing.
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