Tuesday night:

 

1/1 rbi bb

I don't see what the big love affair is with Ross. He's okay as a bench player, but his career numbers aren't all that great. Neither were his numbers last year with us. He started out hot this year but his numbers are going down to where they have been year after year.

De Aza is the better defensive player, hits lefties very well, runs the bases more like Amazega, and has far more potential than Cody has. Cody has more power but De aza causes far more distraction on the base paths, which is a big plus that isn't very often appreciated by the casual fan, or fans that watch all/most games in front of their TVs. I like Cody but De Aza is just the better all around choice.

 

De Aza is a rule V pickup that has never been that great at any level. Cody Ross destroys LHP, so your point there is errant.

 

Not saying De Aza is bad, but the people on this board have been overrating him to a very high degree for months now.

 

And Cody is a .230something career hitter. Not even close to being special. De Aza tore up lefties in ST and with his few ABs this year. You may be right about me being a bit prejudicial on him, but he has much better range in CF and better on the bases than Cody. I was talking highly of De Aza during ST because I was one of the few that actually went to the games. Seeing is believing, even in ST games.

All said and done, it wouldn't bother me to see Amazing stay in CF for most games the rest of the year and let De Aza work his way back into the line up and that CF job. But if it is going to be that way then I would prefer him to stay in the minors and get his ABs instead of riding the bench and getting spot starts here. However, I do think he is mentally ready and capable of handling the job FAR better than Cody is.

I'm for putting him on the squad. We're in a position to gamble.

If we want to gamble, you put Brett Carroll in CF every night for the rest of the year

 

 

'what's wrong with Cody Ross?

Nothing... he just has no future with us as an everyday player (imo of course)

 

 

Totally agree. He is nothing special as an every day player. Good bench player, good team mate, and well liked by the fans, including me. But...I would be willing to bet he dosen't make the team next year in any capacity.

Yeah, he has picked up in some areas, but 2B is growing as a much stronger position than most will give it credit for. Uggla is definitely adequate, but not the All Star some claim him to be.

 

While his power numbers have increased, he leads the league for second basemen in SO's by a looong way (over 30 SO's from the next guy), and his OBP is suffering, which worries me for his future.

 

Uggla has a higher WARP3 than any player on our team. He is an above average defender and is an absolute beast on offense. The only other 2B with a higher WARP3 than Uggla is Utley. Uggla may be the most underappreciated player on our team. He's got an average OBP despite his "horrendous" batting average, and he's got a lot of power. Uggla is not only an all star (or more accurately, he should be), he's one of the 2 best 2nd basemen in the league.

July 27th: 1/2 r k sb

Yeah, he has picked up in some areas, but 2B is growing as a much stronger position than most will give it credit for. Uggla is definitely adequate, but not the All Star some claim him to be.

 

While his power numbers have increased, he leads the league for second basemen in SO's by a looong way (over 30 SO's from the next guy), and his OBP is suffering, which worries me for his future.

 

Uggla has a higher WARP3 than any player on our team. He is an above average defender and is an absolute beast on offense. The only other 2B with a higher WARP3 than Uggla is Utley. Uggla may be the most underappreciated player on our team. He's got an average OBP despite his "horrendous" batting average, and he's got a lot of power. Uggla is not only an all star (or more accurately, he should be), he's one of the 2 best 2nd basemen in the league.

 

Stats aside, I don't hold him in as high regard as you do but I do consider him adequate with a glove. Above average even. I do like the nonstatistical things he brings to the table. Attitude, workmanship, etc... He also is a fan favorite, which dosen't mean all that much with the exception of how he earned that regard. All in all I wouldn't object to seeing someone brought in during the off season to give him a run for the position.

Back to the topic. I just read De Aza will be making a rehab start this Sunday. Anyone know where??

Yeah, he has picked up in some areas, but 2B is growing as a much stronger position than most will give it credit for. Uggla is definitely adequate, but not the All Star some claim him to be.

 

While his power numbers have increased, he leads the league for second basemen in SO's by a looong way (over 30 SO's from the next guy), and his OBP is suffering, which worries me for his future.

 

Uggla has a higher WARP3 than any player on our team. He is an above average defender and is an absolute beast on offense. The only other 2B with a higher WARP3 than Uggla is Utley. Uggla may be the most underappreciated player on our team. He's got an average OBP despite his "horrendous" batting average, and he's got a lot of power. Uggla is not only an all star (or more accurately, he should be), he's one of the 2 best 2nd basemen in the league.

 

Stats aside, I don't hold him in as high regard as you do but I do consider him adequate with a glove. Above average even. I do like the nonstatistical things he brings to the table. Attitude, workmanship, etc... He also is a fan favorite, which dosen't mean all that much with the exception of how he earned that regard. All in all I wouldn't object to seeing someone brought in during the off season to give him a run for the position.

There is absolutely no need to bring in competition for Uggla.

Yeah, he has picked up in some areas, but 2B is growing as a much stronger position than most will give it credit for. Uggla is definitely adequate, but not the All Star some claim him to be.

 

While his power numbers have increased, he leads the league for second basemen in SO's by a looong way (over 30 SO's from the next guy), and his OBP is suffering, which worries me for his future.

 

Uggla has a higher WARP3 than any player on our team. He is an above average defender and is an absolute beast on offense. The only other 2B with a higher WARP3 than Uggla is Utley. Uggla may be the most underappreciated player on our team. He's got an average OBP despite his "horrendous" batting average, and he's got a lot of power. Uggla is not only an all star (or more accurately, he should be), he's one of the 2 best 2nd basemen in the league.

 

Stats aside, I don't hold him in as high regard as you do but I do consider him adequate with a glove. Above average even. I do like the nonstatistical things he brings to the table. Attitude, workmanship, etc... He also is a fan favorite, which dosen't mean all that much with the exception of how he earned that regard. All in all I wouldn't object to seeing someone brought in during the off season to give him a run for the position.

 

Unless we are bringing in Brandon Phillips or Chase Utley then there is no reason to have competetition for a power hitting 2nd baseman who is good with the glove who is just entering his prime.

 

What we need to do with Danny is keep him until he's a free agent and take the compensation. He's going to be a free agent at the age of 32 or something, we don't want to be anywhere near him when he hits free agency. Take the draft picks and thank him for the 6 years of being a top 5 second baseman in the league.

Yeah, he has picked up in some areas, but 2B is growing as a much stronger position than most will give it credit for. Uggla is definitely adequate, but not the All Star some claim him to be.

 

While his power numbers have increased, he leads the league for second basemen in SO's by a looong way (over 30 SO's from the next guy), and his OBP is suffering, which worries me for his future.

 

Uggla has a higher WARP3 than any player on our team. He is an above average defender and is an absolute beast on offense. The only other 2B with a higher WARP3 than Uggla is Utley. Uggla may be the most underappreciated player on our team. He's got an average OBP despite his "horrendous" batting average, and he's got a lot of power. Uggla is not only an all star (or more accurately, he should be), he's one of the 2 best 2nd basemen in the league.

 

Stats aside, I don't hold him in as high regard as you do but I do consider him adequate with a glove. Above average even. I do like the nonstatistical things he brings to the table. Attitude, workmanship, etc... He also is a fan favorite, which dosen't mean all that much with the exception of how he earned that regard. All in all I wouldn't object to seeing someone brought in during the off season to give him a run for the position.

 

Unless we are bringing in Brandon Phillips or Chase Utley then there is no reason to have competetition for a power hitting 2nd baseman who is good with the glove who is just entering his prime.

 

What we need to do with Danny is keep him until he's a free agent and take the compensation. He's going to be a free agent at the age of 32 or something, we don't want to be anywhere near him when he hits free agency. Take the draft picks and thank him for the 6 years of being a top 5 second baseman in the league.

 

I definitely agree that we don't need to bring in competition, and that his production is at an elite level considering position, but he does scream "debut late, decline early." I'd almost be a little upset if he isn't dangled before his arby schedule runs out.

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

Castillo was so much better defensively than Uggla ever will be. I like Uggla but he is replaceable with his glove. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little competition. Get the stardust out of your eyes. Thinking he is the best there ever was for us is like trying to tell me that Miggy is in the top 3 of defensive 3B in the NL.

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

Castillo was so much better defensively than Uggla ever will be. I like Uggla but he is replaceable with his glove. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little competition. Get the stardust out of your eyes. Thinking he is the best there ever was for us is like trying to tell me that Miggy is in the top 3 of defensive 3B in the NL.

Who do you suggest we could bring in for the minimum that would even remotely get close to the numbers Uggla could put up?

2/4 2b

 

now in Jupiter

Uggla > Luis

No frickin' way, especially as a #2 hitter. Apparently the Marlins still think Uggla is Luis, which is the only conceivable reason Uggla is hitting second.

Uggla > Luis

No frickin' way, especially as a #2 hitter. Apparently the Marlins still think Uggla is Luis, which is the only conceivable reason Uggla is hitting second.

 

Luis had really nice On base skills. He also couldn't hit for any type of power. I agree he was more suited for the 2 spot than Uggla, but Uggla is still a more valuable player anywhere in the lineup.

not if defense comes into play at all

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

 

 

 

In this case you have takin the "defense means nothing" mentality a little too far.

 

Im not saying we should go out and get Luis but.......Luis > Uggla

 

 

 

 

 

Or has Luis just been really really lucky in his career?

 

:mischief

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

 

 

 

In this case you have takin the "defense means nothing" mentality a little too far.

 

Im not saying we should go out and get Luis but.......Luis > Uggla

 

 

 

 

 

Or has Luis just been really really lucky in his career?

 

:mischief

 

Luis highest WARP3 in 2 seasons (2003 and 2005): 13.5 (5.2 of those wins coming from defense)

Dan Uggla WARP3 in his first 2 years: 19.2 (6 of those wins coming from defense)

 

Baseball prospectus finds Uggla to be a tremendously underrated fielder at an important defensive position, so that's where the gap in value comes from. But since I know most people will object to Uggla being a higher rated defender than Luis, even if Uggla was of neutral defensive value, his bat alone is worth as much as Luis' bat and glove were in his two best seasons. Granted it is entirely possible that being his 26 and 27 YO seasons, it's entirely possible he's peaked, but he's still tremendously valuable, moreso than Luis in any year with the Marllins.

2/4 2b

 

now in Jupiter

 

Thanks Ramp, I almost forgot this thread was about De Aza

 

I don't know who I feel about this, but De Aza is surprising me and playing very well (at least stat wise) since he's been back.

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

Castillo was so much better defensively than Uggla ever will be. I like Uggla but he is replaceable with his glove. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little competition. Get the stardust out of your eyes. Thinking he is the best there ever was for us is like trying to tell me that Miggy is in the top 3 of defensive 3B in the NL.

Who do you suggest we could bring in for the minimum that would even remotely get close to the numbers Uggla could put up?

 

I have no suggestions. And I have no real problems with Uggla. I like his work ethic and his blue collar approach to the game. BUT I see no problem with bringing a player or two in to see what happens. If he gets beat out, fine. That could be a win-win. We get a better 2B and he is used as trade bait to get someone else we need. If he holds the job, great. He's not bad, even tho not as high as some place him defensively, and his bat is better than most at his position, even tho his slumps seem to be a bit prolonged.

2/4 2b

 

now in Jupiter

 

Damn, damn, damn. What a bust of a week end for me. I could have again been among the 70K (I can't even imagine what Main Street looked like this week end) in Cooperstown for the ceremonies and didn't. Now I could have been in Jupiter to watch this youngster and didn't. Damn, damn, damn.

Bringing in someone to compete with Uggla???? Are you out of your mind?????? The only way we can bring in somebody that can even hold Uggla's jockstrap is if we give the guy 9 mil a year. Or maybe Luis will take a hometown discount. The last thing we need is to pay for somebody to compete with Uggla. I think you should be banned for even proposing the idea.

 

Uggla > Luis

 

 

 

In this case you have takin the "defense means nothing" mentality a little too far.

 

Im not saying we should go out and get Luis but.......Luis > Uggla

 

 

 

 

 

Or has Luis just been really really lucky in his career?

 

:mischief

 

Luis highest WARP3 in 2 seasons (2003 and 2005): 13.5 (5.2 of those wins coming from defense)

Dan Uggla WARP3 in his first 2 years: 19.2 (6 of those wins coming from defense)

 

Baseball prospectus finds Uggla to be a tremendously underrated fielder at an important defensive position, so that's where the gap in value comes from. But since I know most people will object to Uggla being a higher rated defender than Luis, even if Uggla was of neutral defensive value, his bat alone is worth as much as Luis' bat and glove were in his two best seasons. Granted it is entirely possible that being his 26 and 27 YO seasons, it's entirely possible he's peaked, but he's still tremendously valuable, moreso than Luis in any year with the Marllins.

 

 

I am a stat guy for sure, love em and use em, but to me defensive stats are crap. I hate them. They can't possibly accurately account for range and fast twitch fibers that allow Castillo to get to balls that Uggla can't get to.

 

It's as simple as watching them play. Watch Castillo play defense for a game then watch Uggla. No one in their right mind would compare the two. It's laughable.

You all should know by now that it is useless trying to convince bobbob that one player is better than another when a particular stat doesn't back it up.

 

Uggla's making it pretty close though. Let's just be glad that we've had such good second basemen for the past decade.

 

 

 

oh, & keep it up DeAza! :thumbup