I swear some of you are hilarious.

 

You have no clue what Fredi says to Hermida in private, you have no clue what he says to anyone. All you do is base things off what is said in the media.

 

If Fredi's lambasting the team behind closed doors and telling the media all's rosey (which this quote indicates to me) he's setting himself up for real credibility issues down the road.

 

How so?

 

If I were on a high profile case and I messed up a bit and my boss said everything was cool publicly but told me privately that I need to fix some things he would not lose any credibility with me. In fact, I would think he's a jerk for blasting me publicly.

 

I'm sure your co-workers would love the mixed signals, and I'm sure there'd be hard feelings if they did the same thing and felt the boot come down on them.

 

 

Now you are crossing the signals. Fredi is doing the same thing with all the players (co-workers). Keeping it private and not airing laundry in the media. The media and the fan base are not co-workers, no matter how much they feel they have a right to be. Fredi taking it to the media would be the same as your boss openly and harshly berating you in front of a customer. Are you telling us that you would not only accept, but also praise that behaviour because you felt you had it coming??? Your boss making himself and the company look good at your expense???

I have virtually no problems with the way Fredi is handling discipline and the media (aside from Scott Olsen when he should have spoken out against his behavior, but who knows he could have been given a gag order from the front office). He has no starting pitching to speak of, the team has been riddled with injuries, but people want blame the team's woes on Fredi not publicly embarrassing his players? I think Fredi understands that publicly bashing a player is a valid motivational tool, but one that should be used infrequently (such as in the case of Olsen :whistle ). Publicly humiliating a player over a misplayed ball when the team has virtually no chance to contend due to injuries, would be a waste of that tool and a betrayal of the trust his players have in him. His players know that privately he may be disappointed in some of their play, but publicly he supports them. In my mind, that goes a long way in developing trust and might help a player "buy in" to the system.

 

You put that pretty well. Different way than I did. I do disagree with the Scotty opinion, but life goes on.

 

I am assuming you are speaking more of the police incident more than just Scotty's overall behavioral deficencies. Fredi probably was going the "company way" on Scotty. The team made a statement and I think by not saying otherwise Fredi was concurring with that line. It could be argued that the team should have taken a sterner appraoch to this but I feel that would be hypocritical considering how the team has handled DTrain's incident AND Alison's continuing legal and personal problems. (BTW Last I read this week, he is now in the PBC jail awaiting extridition back to the Carolinas, I think for probation violations).

Still waiting for an answer to my question DelGot (and Flummox)

 

 

Was the bullpen "effectively managed" last night?

Still waiting for an answer to my question DelGot (and Flummox)

 

 

Was the bullpen "effectively managed" last night?

You bet it was

Still waiting for an answer to my question DelGot (and Flummox)

 

 

Was the bullpen "effectively managed" last night?

I missed the game, but I can obviously see from the boards that Armando blew it in the 8th, although I didn't see how it happened. I could care less about one game though anyway, particularly when your 8th inning guy blows the 8th (shocking). Sometimes in baseball, you lose. If you are going to complain that he brought Mando in the 8th, then I think that's a bit ridiculous. Although Mando's had a rough season, he is suited as an 8th inning guy, and I wouldn't blame Fredi for bringing him in during that situation anymore than I would if he brought Gregg in the 9th and then blew the lead.

 

You still are seething about Girardi's dismissal, and it is boiling over to your analysis of this season. On a scale of 1 to 10, Girardi's bullpen talent level was about a 2, maybe a 3.5 when K-Mart was throwing, and Mitre and Nolasco were in the pen. Those guys would play for our team now, so it is hard to argue that they aren't at least talented enough to crack our rotation.

 

Fredi's bullpen is about a 5/6 out of 10. Yes, it is more talented, but some credit for the effectiveness of our bullpen has to go to Fredi. Gregg (as closer), Pinto, Lidstrom, and Gardner are not components of a top flight bullpen, Mando and Miller were thrown away by their teams just this season, and Tank was horrendous during the middle of the season. Fredi has "effectively managed" an adequate bullpen, who has been needed MUCH more than last year. Have there been times when I have disagreed with a move he's made? Of course, but a lot of those times the guy actually has gotten out of the inning, rather than realized my worst fears. That's effective management. Girardi didn't need a bullpen when his starters were throwing no hitters and complete games. I'm not sure if we've thrown a complete game this season.

Fredi went with his 8th inning guy last night and we lost.

 

Yes you are correct, its baseball, it happens.

 

 

I wasnt complaining that he brought Mando in for the 8th. Mando is the 8th inning guy.

 

When Girardi brought his 8th inning guy (or 7th inning guy for that matter) last and the Marlins lost, all I ever heard on this board was a giant bitch fest about how Girardi's in game management sucked.

 

 

To summarize, Fredi brought in his 8th inning guy who has been struggling. When Girardi did the same thing last year and we lost, it was, "why did he bring that guy in when he is struggling". This years explanation for bullpen meltdowns is, "its baseball, we lost". Last year the explanation was always, "gIraRDI sUCks"

 

 

And Im not seething over Girardi's release. Its a bush league organization and his firing was not shocking in the least.

Fredi went with his 8th inning guy last night and we lost.

 

Yes you are correct, its baseball, it happens.

 

 

I wasnt complaining that he brought Mando in for the 8th. Mando is the 8th inning guy.

 

When Girardi brought his 8th inning guy (or 7th inning guy for that matter) last and the Marlins lost, all I ever heard on this board was a giant bitch fest about how Girardi's in game management sucked.

 

 

To summarize, Fredi brought in his 8th inning guy who has been struggling. When Girardi did the same thing last year and we lost, it was, "why did he bring that guy in when he is struggling". This years explanation for bullpen meltdowns is, "its baseball, we lost". Last year the explanation was always, "gIraRDI sUCks"

 

 

And Im not seething over Girardi's release. Its a bush league organization and his firing was not shocking in the least.

Real quick - who was Girardi's 8th inning guy??

logan kensing until he got hurt

And Tank afterwards.

Fredi went with his 8th inning guy last night and we lost.

 

Yes you are correct, its baseball, it happens.

 

 

I wasnt complaining that he brought Mando in for the 8th. Mando is the 8th inning guy.

 

When Girardi brought his 8th inning guy (or 7th inning guy for that matter) last and the Marlins lost, all I ever heard on this board was a giant bitch fest about how Girardi's in game management sucked.

 

 

To summarize, Fredi brought in his 8th inning guy who has been struggling. When Girardi did the same thing last year and we lost, it was, "why did he bring that guy in when he is struggling". This years explanation for bullpen meltdowns is, "its baseball, we lost". Last year the explanation was always, "gIraRDI sUCks"

 

 

And Im not seething over Girardi's release. Its a bush league organization and his firing was not shocking in the least.

 

When you can't work with the GM and the FO, it's time to go. That's where Girardi shot himself in the foot. He shot himself in the head when he publicly yelled at his only true backer in the organization. Remember, Beinfest wanted Fredi. Loria wanted Girardi. So por favor, if anyone should be called bush league from that whole debacle it should be Loria and Girardi, not the organization.

 

The only people who bitched about Girardi 'losing' games in the late innings last year on a nightly basis are the same people who are bitching about Fredi's lack of 'intensity' this year. In other words, the people who don't have a clue about what they're talking about and couldn't construct a proper sentence if their life depended on it.

 

Did Girardi lose games last year because of his bullpen management? Yes.

 

Has Fredi lost games this year because of his bullpen management? Yes.

 

It is baseball. Every move a manager makes will be questioned by anyone. There will never be a perfect manager. If message boards were around in those times, Connie Mack, John McGraw and Earl Weaver would have been trashed for X move on a nightly basis too. The difference between Joe Girardi and Fredi Gonzalez is the 'WTF?! moves.' For the most part Fredi has limited his 'WTF?! moves' so far this season. There has not been one move made by Fredi this year, that IMO, comes close to that Hanley bunting with two strikes against the Mets incident.

There is no doubt that Girardi made some bonehead decisions last year (although bunting in the 1st inning is a blunder made by MANY big league managers).

 

Just to clarify my position on him: I dont think he is the greatest manager ever to roam a dugout. I just don't think he was as bad as many portrayed him to be (not referring to you Festa). The fact remains that Girardi was dealt a big fat turd disguised as a bullpen and you just can't polish a turd.

 

Unfortunately I can't off the top of my head think of a gaffe that would eclipse the HanRam bunting w/ 2 strikes incident but there have been a few WTF managerial moments this year. When I think of some I will share it with the board (One that comes to mind is Hermida needs to bat 2nd but that is not really an "in-game decision")

 

 

 

Oh and the this whole Jihad against Girardi because of JJ's TJ surgery is laughable. Injuries happen. Its baseball right?

Let's be honest: Fredi only has this job because he worked under Bobby Cox, and it was assumed that this would somehow make him a great manager. That is practically the only coaching credentials that he has.

Let's be honest: Fredi only has this job because he worked under Bobby Cox, and it was assumed that this would somehow make him a great manager. That is practically the only coaching credentials that he has.

 

 

 

The same then could be said about Girardi.

Let's be honest: Fredi only has this job because he worked under Bobby Cox, and it was assumed that this would somehow make him a great manager. That is practically the only coaching credentials that he has.

has a career record of 628-596 (.513) in 10 seasons as a manager at the minor league level...Spent the last five seasons (2002-06) in the Atlanta Braves organization, including the last four seasons as third base coach at the Major League level...managed the Triple-A Richmond Braves to a 75-67 second-place finish in 2002...He returns for his 11th season with the Marlins, where he served as third base coach at the Major League level from 1999-2001...he managed for seven seasons in the Marlins organization from 1992-1998... managed Portland (AA) to a 79-63 record and first-place finish in 1997...was selected by Baseball America as the Eastern League Manager of the Year in 1997...was recognized by Baseball America as the Florida State League Manager of the Year in 1994, after going 78-61 with Brevard County (A) and finishing second to Tampa in the FSL championship series...was Baseball America's California League Manager of the Year in 1993, guiding High Desert (A) to an 85-52 mark en route to becoming California League Champions...that championship in 1993 marked the first ever by a Marlins' affiliate...received the Carl Barger Player Development Person of the Year Award in 1993...was named the first minor league manager in Marlins history, leading the 1992 Erie (A) club to a 40-37 record en route to the New York-Penn League championship series...Began his managerial career in 1990, taking over the unaffiliated Miami Miracle (A) of the Florida State League with 20 games remaining on their schedule...he continued his post as manager of the Miracle in 1991.

 

that's a pretty solid resume for a rookie manager

Let's be honest: Fredi only has this job because he worked under Bobby Cox, and it was assumed that this would somehow make him a great manager. That is practically the only coaching credentials that he has.

has a career record of 628-596 (.513) in 10 seasons as a manager at the minor league level...Spent the last five seasons (2002-06) in the Atlanta Braves organization, including the last four seasons as third base coach at the Major League level...managed the Triple-A Richmond Braves to a 75-67 second-place finish in 2002...He returns for his 11th season with the Marlins, where he served as third base coach at the Major League level from 1999-2001...he managed for seven seasons in the Marlins organization from 1992-1998... managed Portland (AA) to a 79-63 record and first-place finish in 1997...was selected by Baseball America as the Eastern League Manager of the Year in 1997...was recognized by Baseball America as the Florida State League Manager of the Year in 1994, after going 78-61 with Brevard County (A) and finishing second to Tampa in the FSL championship series...was Baseball America's California League Manager of the Year in 1993, guiding High Desert (A) to an 85-52 mark en route to becoming California League Champions...that championship in 1993 marked the first ever by a Marlins' affiliate...received the Carl Barger Player Development Person of the Year Award in 1993...was named the first minor league manager in Marlins history, leading the 1992 Erie (A) club to a 40-37 record en route to the New York-Penn League championship series...Began his managerial career in 1990, taking over the unaffiliated Miami Miracle (A) of the Florida State League with 20 games remaining on their schedule...he continued his post as manager of the Miracle in 1991.

 

that's a pretty solid resume for a rookie manager

 

PWNED!

 

:thumbup

Let's be honest: Fredi only has this job because he worked under Bobby Cox, and it was assumed that this would somehow make him a great manager. That is practically the only coaching credentials that he has.

:lol