http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...man.mannytrade/

The low-budget Marlins were up next. They appeared to be sensing a kill, so they tried for a killer deal. Jeremy Hermida was one name talked about. Gaby Hernandez was another, but Hernandez went to Seattle for reliever Arthur Rhodes.

 

Slugging outfield prospect Mike Stanton would not be included by the Marlins. Other decent prospects would not be included either. Plus the Marlins wanted Boston to not only pay Ramirez's $7 million salary but also to ship them $2 million more to cover the draft choices they'd get when they let Ramirez leave as a free agent after the year. So in other words Florida wanted Boston to pay for three of its players for accepting the Cooperstown-bound Ramirez.

A lot of possible scenarios were discussed for days with Florida. But there never was an agreement on players and dollars.

The Marlins "overplayed their hand,'' in the words of one person familiar with the dealings.

 

:mis2

 

Marlins were too greedy.

 

Fail!

beating the dead horse now.

Yikes. I hate to question Beinfest, but its hard not to right now.

You read this article and it really makes you happy Ramirez isn't here, its all about the $$'s

You read this article and it really makes you happy Ramirez isn't here, its all about the $$'s

 

These days, thats what baseball is all about.

If Hermida didn't K four times yesterday, I wonder if this thread would be here.

If Hermida didn't K four times yesterday, I wonder if this thread would be here.

The article came out today, so that's why I posted. Regardless of what Hermida did, I still think the Marlins made the right move

Im glad hermida wasnt traded. If he can live up to his potential, he can be the hitter ramirez is today. I know thats a stretch, but its true. and it sounds like the marlins were being way to greedy, but whatever.

I don't mind us being "greedy". It's clear that we didn't want to give up the farm for Ramirez but I'm glad that out FO looked towards getting a deal that would benefit us in the long run.

Im glad hermida wasnt traded. If he can live up to his potential, he can be the hitter ramirez is today. I know thats a stretch, but its true. and it sounds like the marlins were being way to greedy, but whatever.

 

If Hermida lives up to his potential he'll still likely never be the hitter Manny is. Its his other 3 tools (speed, arm and fielding) that give him the chance to become a more valuable player.

I don't think it was the $$$ part that nixed the deal. And I don't think it was the BoSox that wouldn't have done the deal. Look towards Pitt for that. They wanted too much from our farm system to make the deal worthwhile. If you give up enough prospects for the win now attitude then you end up like the Mets. Check out their farm system and ask yourself if that is where you want us to be at. And Manny was a 2 month rental on a bat that we don't need.

You guys they wanted way too much for a 2-month rental, the Pittsburgh Pirates are the ones who messed up the deal, not Boston! Now my question is why didn't we try and snag Jason Bay?

Reports say the money had nothing to do with the end of the deal, it was all about Pittsburgh getting greedy and us saying no.

The Pirates are the ones who TURNED DOWN the Marlins offer...they didn't think it was enough (Hermida, Tank, Coughlan), and they liked what the Dodgers were offering. I'm assuming Boston had the same prospects going to the Pirates no matter what, although with Beinfest's demands for $2 Million to cover compensation picks, maybe that's too much of an assumption.

 

I also think this deal speaks volumes about what the league (or at least the Pirates) thinks of Hermida. Which, is not that much, or at least not as much as the people on this board. Maybe Hermida can use this to fuel his passion to play, and maybe one day he can prove the Pirates wrong. I still would rather have Manny, but I seem to be in the minority here. I think we lack situational hitters, and Manny, for all his shennigans, is one of the best situational hitters out there. He works a count, drives in runners when he has to with sac. flies, and generally makes the whole lineup more dangerous. I think we need someone like that. We don't need another masher, but anyone who watches Manny knows he's more than that.

 

3 quick thoughts about this whole thing. One, I wonder if Hermida PLUS Gaby would have sealed the deal with the Pirates? If so, it makes me question the Rhodes deal. Wouldn't you rather have Manny (positional player) than Rhodes (situational lefty)? And, I really question whether the demand for $2 million dollars for the extra picks was justified. It is not as if the picks do not end up benefiting the Marlins (you can't underestimate compensation picks, as Volstad, West, Tucker, etc...that was the last time we were able to take advantage of compensation picks).

 

Two, anyone want to place bets that we sell out that series against the Rockies if we get Manny? That's reason enough right there if you're the FO, particularly when Manny's salary was paid for by Boston...selling tickets is important. The four game series against Colorado was sparsely attended for a team right in the thick of the hunt.

 

Third, are the same people questioning a "2 month rental" for Manny also questioning our deal for Rhodes? Because that's the same thing, only we don't get compensation picks, and we gave up a good pitching prospect (yes, we have better ones, but he wasn't chopped liver).

The Pirates are the ones who TURNED DOWN the Marlins offer...they didn't think it was enough (Hermida, Tank, Coughlan), and they liked what the Dodgers were offering. I'm assuming Boston had the same prospects going to the Pirates no matter what, although with Beinfest's demands for $2 Million to cover compensation picks, maybe that's too much of an assumption.

 

I also think this deal speaks volumes about what the league (or at least the Pirates) thinks of Hermida. Which, is not that much, or at least not as much as the people on this board. Maybe Hermida can use this to fuel his passion to play, and maybe one day he can prove the Pirates wrong. I still would rather have Manny, but I seem to be in the minority here. I think we lack situational hitters, and Manny, for all his shennigans, is one of the best situational hitters out there. He works a count, drives in runners when he has to with sac. flies, and generally makes the whole lineup more dangerous. I think we need someone like that. We don't need another masher, but anyone who watches Manny knows he's more than that.

 

3 quick thoughts about this whole thing. One, I wonder if Hermida PLUS Gaby would have sealed the deal with the Pirates? If so, it makes me question the Rhodes deal. Wouldn't you rather have Manny (positional player) than Rhodes (situational lefty)? And, I really question whether the demand for $2 million dollars for the extra picks was justified. It is not as if the picks do not end up benefiting the Marlins (you can't underestimate compensation picks, as Volstad, West, Tucker, etc...that was the last time we were able to take advantage of compensation picks).

 

Two, anyone want to place bets that we sell out that series against the Rockies if we get Manny? That's reason enough right there if you're the FO, particularly when Manny's salary was paid for by Boston...selling tickets is important. The four game series against Colorado was sparsely attended for a team right in the thick of the hunt.

 

Third, are the same people questioning a "2 month rental" for Manny also questioning our deal for Rhodes? Because that's the same thing, only we don't get compensation picks, and we gave up a good pitching prospect (yes, we have better ones, but he wasn't chopped liver).

It really doesn't speak much on that point. It speaks to what the worst run team in baseball thinks of Hermida. As you can tell bu the deal we gave them and the deal they ended up getting, there were going to sheer quantity over quality.

The Pirates are the ones who TURNED DOWN the Marlins offer...they didn't think it was enough (Hermida, Tank, Coughlan), and they liked what the Dodgers were offering. I'm assuming Boston had the same prospects going to the Pirates no matter what, although with Beinfest's demands for $2 Million to cover compensation picks, maybe that's too much of an assumption.

 

I also think this deal speaks volumes about what the league (or at least the Pirates) thinks of Hermida. Which, is not that much, or at least not as much as the people on this board. Maybe Hermida can use this to fuel his passion to play, and maybe one day he can prove the Pirates wrong. I still would rather have Manny, but I seem to be in the minority here. I think we lack situational hitters, and Manny, for all his shennigans, is one of the best situational hitters out there. He works a count, drives in runners when he has to with sac. flies, and generally makes the whole lineup more dangerous. I think we need someone like that. We don't need another masher, but anyone who watches Manny knows he's more than that.

 

3 quick thoughts about this whole thing. One, I wonder if Hermida PLUS Gaby would have sealed the deal with the Pirates? If so, it makes me question the Rhodes deal. Wouldn't you rather have Manny (positional player) than Rhodes (situational lefty)? And, I really question whether the demand for $2 million dollars for the extra picks was justified. It is not as if the picks do not end up benefiting the Marlins (you can't underestimate compensation picks, as Volstad, West, Tucker, etc...that was the last time we were able to take advantage of compensation picks).

 

Two, anyone want to place bets that we sell out that series against the Rockies if we get Manny? That's reason enough right there if you're the FO, particularly when Manny's salary was paid for by Boston...selling tickets is important. The four game series against Colorado was sparsely attended for a team right in the thick of the hunt.

 

Third, are the same people questioning a "2 month rental" for Manny also questioning our deal for Rhodes? Because that's the same thing, only we don't get compensation picks, and we gave up a good pitching prospect (yes, we have better ones, but he wasn't chopped liver).

It really doesn't speak much on that point. It speaks to what the worst run team in baseball thinks of Hermida. As you can tell bu the deal we gave them and the deal they ended up getting, there were going to sheer quantity over quality.

Boston didn't want him either. Just saying. BTW, I don't think wanting LaRoche is necessarily a "quantity over quality" discussion. There are legitimate arguments that LaRoche > Hermida, considering that, among other things, he plays a more valuable position (3B over corner outfield).

The Pirates are the ones who TURNED DOWN the Marlins offer...they didn't think it was enough (Hermida, Tank, Coughlan), and they liked what the Dodgers were offering. I'm assuming Boston had the same prospects going to the Pirates no matter what, although with Beinfest's demands for $2 Million to cover compensation picks, maybe that's too much of an assumption.

 

I also think this deal speaks volumes about what the league (or at least the Pirates) thinks of Hermida. Which, is not that much, or at least not as much as the people on this board. Maybe Hermida can use this to fuel his passion to play, and maybe one day he can prove the Pirates wrong. I still would rather have Manny, but I seem to be in the minority here. I think we lack situational hitters, and Manny, for all his shennigans, is one of the best situational hitters out there. He works a count, drives in runners when he has to with sac. flies, and generally makes the whole lineup more dangerous. I think we need someone like that. We don't need another masher, but anyone who watches Manny knows he's more than that.

 

3 quick thoughts about this whole thing. One, I wonder if Hermida PLUS Gaby would have sealed the deal with the Pirates? If so, it makes me question the Rhodes deal. Wouldn't you rather have Manny (positional player) than Rhodes (situational lefty)? And, I really question whether the demand for $2 million dollars for the extra picks was justified. It is not as if the picks do not end up benefiting the Marlins (you can't underestimate compensation picks, as Volstad, West, Tucker, etc...that was the last time we were able to take advantage of compensation picks).

 

Two, anyone want to place bets that we sell out that series against the Rockies if we get Manny? That's reason enough right there if you're the FO, particularly when Manny's salary was paid for by Boston...selling tickets is important. The four game series against Colorado was sparsely attended for a team right in the thick of the hunt.

 

Third, are the same people questioning a "2 month rental" for Manny also questioning our deal for Rhodes? Because that's the same thing, only we don't get compensation picks, and we gave up a good pitching prospect (yes, we have better ones, but he wasn't chopped liver).

It really doesn't speak much on that point. It speaks to what the worst run team in baseball thinks of Hermida. As you can tell bu the deal we gave them and the deal they ended up getting, there were going to sheer quantity over quality.

Boston didn't want him either. Just saying. BTW, I don't think wanting LaRoche is necessarily a "quantity over quality" discussion. There are legitimate arguments that LaRoche > Hermida, considering that, among other things, he plays a more valuable position (3B over corner outfield).

Well, Boston wanted someone that would come close to the production that Manny gave them this year. I don't think anyone would argue that Hermida would give them that (even though 2nd Half Hermida will try).

 

But yeah, I see your point on LaRoach, which really is arguable. But, on the other side, the 3 prospects they got are not as good as Tucker/Stanton.

All I have to say is that there is a reason why the Pirates have been bad for so long. The REAL reason they don't want a guy like Hermida is because they would have to pay him immediately. He's more talented than the other guys they received from LA. When you have as much rebuilding to do as the Pirates do, you have to take the guys with the most talent, not go for "needs". But like I said, its a factor of money, and Pittsburgh doesn't pay the right guys (except if you are an old, useless veteran). And unlike the Marlins, they are horrible at replacing any talent they lose.

The Pirates are the ones who TURNED DOWN the Marlins offer...they didn't think it was enough (Hermida, Tank, Coughlan), and they liked what the Dodgers were offering. I'm assuming Boston had the same prospects going to the Pirates no matter what, although with Beinfest's demands for $2 Million to cover compensation picks, maybe that's too much of an assumption.

 

I also think this deal speaks volumes about what the league (or at least the Pirates) thinks of Hermida. Which, is not that much, or at least not as much as the people on this board. Maybe Hermida can use this to fuel his passion to play, and maybe one day he can prove the Pirates wrong. I still would rather have Manny, but I seem to be in the minority here. I think we lack situational hitters, and Manny, for all his shennigans, is one of the best situational hitters out there. He works a count, drives in runners when he has to with sac. flies, and generally makes the whole lineup more dangerous. I think we need someone like that. We don't need another masher, but anyone who watches Manny knows he's more than that.

 

3 quick thoughts about this whole thing. One, I wonder if Hermida PLUS Gaby would have sealed the deal with the Pirates? If so, it makes me question the Rhodes deal. Wouldn't you rather have Manny (positional player) than Rhodes (situational lefty)? And, I really question whether the demand for $2 million dollars for the extra picks was justified. It is not as if the picks do not end up benefiting the Marlins (you can't underestimate compensation picks, as Volstad, West, Tucker, etc...that was the last time we were able to take advantage of compensation picks).

 

Two, anyone want to place bets that we sell out that series against the Rockies if we get Manny? That's reason enough right there if you're the FO, particularly when Manny's salary was paid for by Boston...selling tickets is important. The four game series against Colorado was sparsely attended for a team right in the thick of the hunt.

 

Third, are the same people questioning a "2 month rental" for Manny also questioning our deal for Rhodes? Because that's the same thing, only we don't get compensation picks, and we gave up a good pitching prospect (yes, we have better ones, but he wasn't chopped liver).

 

Just responding to this part. No. Pitching and defense wins titles. There is nothing to say Rhodes is a 2 month rental. He very well could be, but it isn't as strong a possibility as Manny was. And anything that helps save arms is welcome to me. Pinto can't be the only one out in the pen for that job that we have confidence in getting the job done. And Pinto is more than just a situational lefty. Or properly used should be. He can go more than one hitter at a time effectively. So it wouldn't be in our best interests to send him out there just for a partial inning, and probably one batter per appearance. Our other lefty option, Tank, has shown too much inconsistencies to be trusted in a heated situation. About Gaby...Unles he suddenly "gets it" there was no immediate position on this team for him. And by "immediate" I mean within the next couple years.

 

And to be completely selfish... Rumor mill has it that the Mets were also interested in Rhodes. Even tho I doubt they had much of a chance at pulling a deal off because of their lack of any minor leaguers with trade value. Not much of an excuse by itself to get him, but one to think about.

New report from MLBTRADERUMORS....

 

Obviously the Red Sox and Yankees never would've worked out a trade for Manny Ramirez. However, CBSSports.com's Scott Miller says the Marlins briefly explored the idea of acquiring Ramirez and flipping him to the Yankees. The idea didn't get anywhere - neither the Yankees nor Scott Boras were having it.

 

Miller also talked to "a person close to Ramirez" who says he wouldn't have accepted a trade to the Marlins due to their "big ballpark and unstable ownership." Miller suggests the Marlins were never actually close to obtaining Ramirez, despite the various reports floating around Wednesday night.

 

Jon Heyman wrote Thursday morning that Ramirez consented to a trade to the Marlins though a deal had not been reached. So we've got conflicting reports on his willingness to play there. Heyman believes the Marlins overplayed their hand, asking for the $7MM to cover Manny's salary plus $2MM to pay for the resulting draft picks.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/08/marlins-explore.html