While I am probably not going to vote for Obama, I have been fairly critical of the Bush regime and their liberal economic policy. The issue your candidate might have is his several of his top economic advisers in his campaign Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson were both CEO's of Fannie Mae. This mortgage mess is owned by both parties .

Johnson was in charge of Obama's VP selection committee.

I hope my mortgage company goes belly up.

 

 

Then hopefully I can find a way to payoff my note on pennines on the dollar.

 

:lol

If they haven't already sold off your mortgage to someone else, which has happened to many people...

its probably sold 3 or 4 times already.

 

 

Some positive news. We think its bad lets look globally. Oil is down to 92 dollars a barrel.

 

The market rebounded a 150 points. While both the Asian and European markets fell another 150 points today. 3 Consecutive days of huge falls for the other two markets.

 

And lastly the us dollar is now up to 71 cents on the euro. Only 2 1/2 months ago the us dollar was about 50 cents on the euro.

 

It's a bear-market rally. Watch the gains be erased within 2 trading days as traders short their stocks. Not to mention the bear-market rally was caused by the government giving an emergency loan to AIG, because it looked like it was going to crash again today after the Fed held pat on the prime rate.

 

 

Government is prolonging the problem. This is a mess of their creation and they are delaying the inevitable . I think global capital will temporarily prop up the domestic economy but it will be short lived . We are going to revisit the 1970's economy and our government is not properly positioned to deal this situation . We have expanded the size of government so much in the short term I wonder if it is sustainable if it is not massive cuts and huge tax increases will be coming soon.

 

I disagree. Cramer says that AIG has to survive the storm, otherwise you can forget the word recession. He started using words like deflation, deflationary spiral, and depression.

Government is prolonging the problem. This is a mess of their creation and they are delaying the inevitable . I think global capital will temporarily prop up the domestic economy but it will be short lived . We are going to revisit the 1970's economy and our government is not properly positioned to deal this situation . We have expanded the size of government so much in the short term I wonder if it is sustainable if it is not massive cuts and huge tax increases will be coming soon.

 

I would generally agree, but in the case of AIG they have $1 trillion in assets and they can pay it off by selling something.

Obama needs to do a better job of tying McCain to this administration's reckless economic plans that have caused these problems. Or have the 527s do it.

I think it's funny that all of a sudden, the White House decided that they won't bailout any more companies. Even though I agree with that, it's inconsistent with the massive federal bailout of Fannie and Freddie just a couple of weeks ago (which still goes against the beliefs of the GOP's voting bloc of extreme free-marketers).

 

I doubt that we have seen a banking crisis this bad since 1929. Certainly not in a long, long time.

 

While I am probably not going to vote for Obama, I have been fairly critical of the Bush regime and their liberal economic policy. The issue your candidate might have is his several of his top economic advisers in his campaign Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson were both CEO's of Fannie Mae. This mortgage mess is owned by both parties .

 

That is debatable since Republicans have been in power for 8 years and controlled Congress between 1995 and 2007, but in any case McCain acts like nothing is wrong and he appears to think this problem will be resolved by creating a commission. He's out of touch.

I'm glad to see that Obama is hammering on McCain's former economic policy advisor Phil Gramm too.

And I was right. Yesterday was a bear-market rally, and the gains from yesterday are getting wiped out today.

I disagree. Cramer says that AIG has to survive the storm, otherwise you can forget the word recession. He started using words like deflation, deflationary spiral, and depression.

 

 

Cramer also called a bottom in the financial markets less than a month ago.

 

Good call on the bear market really; though anyone who watches the market more than just a passing glance at CNBC could have seen this coming today. We'll finish today down 300+ points, rally 100 or so points tomorrow and have another huge 300+ loss on Friday.

it took until mid day yesterdy to see an positive swing. It was around 3pm that we saw -50 point up to almost 200 points. I think it will round out between a 100-75 point loss today. Not that bad considering the market. Most of the selling is fear of the drop and its just how the market works. I am not sure its a bear market, becausewe have no consistently lose 20-25% of the market. This all seems like corrections to me. I think the dow 30 was too high anyway. Toping out at 13,000 it is coming back to reality. I think the 10,500-11,000 is more the norm and it will go up and down for a little, but we will not have a fall out.

 

A real bear market is the European and Asian markets. the FTSE in Europe dropped 200 points today and it has dropped between 100-200 points a day for about 2 weeks. Then the Asian markets the Hang Seng has dropped 700 points today and it is on pace to drop an average of 8% a day for about a week. This fall has been the longest of all 3 major markets. I think we are much more in a corrections market compared to the other big exchanges.

 

And I know its small but the dollar has been gaining value for 3 months every day. The other markets falling and our adjusting we should be back around par with the euro by the end of the year. Especially if the trend continues. It has been a small raise but it has gone up almost a tenth of a point today. After a fairly big rise the first two days of the week.

Market is down about 350 today. Unfortunately, this is not the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

right now we broke through all technical support levels. We are at uncharted territory.

 

I'm preparing for the worst here.

 

Having some extra food provisions, gold and silver coins are probably good safety/emergency measures

No, he would be a deadbeat. You have the mistaken belief that Democrats/liberals are okay with personal irresponsibility. That couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.

I've never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

I would generally agree, but in the case of AIG they have $1 trillion in assets and they can pay it off by selling something.

Hopefully they sell VALIC, the retirement annuity arm they have. My boss's retirement and mine are both managed by them.

No, he would be a deadbeat. You have the mistaken belief that Democrats/liberals are okay with personal irresponsibility. That couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.

I've never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

 

In that case, you're out of your mind. Your statement is so sweeping and broad that you lose credibility.

Market is down about 350 today. Unfortunately, this is not the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

 

In less than an hour it picked up a 150 points. It is 200 points down, but like I said this morning it will finish 100-50 points down if trends continue. I still think this is a corrective market rather than a bear.

Market is down about 350 today. Unfortunately, this is not the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

 

In less than an hour it picked up a 150 points. It is 200 points down, but like I said this morning it will finish 100-50 points down if trends continue. I still think this is a corrective market rather than a bear.

 

respectfully disagree...This is a bear market by all standards

Market is down about 350 today. Unfortunately, this is not the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

 

In less than an hour it picked up a 150 points. It is 200 points down, but like I said this morning it will finish 100-50 points down if trends continue. I still think this is a corrective market rather than a bear.

 

On May 10th 1999 that DJI was at 10,913; today it sits at 10,882, and like prinmemito says, this isn't even close to a the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

I hope my mortgage company goes belly up.

 

 

Then hopefully I can find a way to payoff my note on pennines on the dollar.

 

:lol

 

Not so fast. They'll just sell those mortgages to another company and you'll have to pay them instead. You're not getting a free ride on someone else's failure.

If he wants he could just walk away from the mortgage and rather than being called a deadbeat he would be called a victim.

 

No, he would be a deadbeat. You have the mistaken belief that Democrats/liberals are okay with personal irresponsibility. That couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.

Like it or not the driving force behind the Democtratic party is to take care of the ones who don't take care of themselves with no questions asked.

The S&P 500 is 24% off it's high last October. This is a bear market.

Market is down about 350 today. Unfortunately, this is not the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

 

In less than an hour it picked up a 150 points. It is 200 points down, but like I said this morning it will finish 100-50 points down if trends continue. I still think this is a corrective market rather than a bear.

 

On May 10th 1999 that DJI was at 10,913; today it sits at 10,882, and like prinmemito says, this isn't even close to a the bottom. We've got a long way to go.

 

1999 was a strong market though. You have to really look after the 2001 burst and its activity.

 

But I am wrong with today because it is nearing 400 points lost today.

This is a bear market any way you look at it. I don't think there's any real disagreement on that. Unfortunately, it will get worse.

I think your view of economics is misguided and really out there. You keep on saying there are no differences, when, in fact, there are big differences. I suggest you take a few upper level economics courses and then re-evaluate all this stuff you've been reading.

I think your view of economics is misguided and really out there. You keep on saying there are no differences, when, in fact, there are big differences. I suggest you take a few upper level economics courses and then re-evaluate all this stuff you've been reading.

:lol

 

I was about to say the same thing about you. I haven't seen an ounce of validity in hardly anything you've said over the last couple of days. You are merely presenting the common debunked falacies that unimformed people project about economic issues.

 

 

I have to agree with penguino here. I think you are just drawing party lines too much. If you look at it any way you want government in general has been liberal in spending for a long time. This has shown to be bad and has caused many problems. Regardless if it was Bush or Gore or Kerry or anyone a lot of these things would still be happening. When the Fed gets invovled and plays a role in these high risk SIVs and derivatives it is causing the problems. They are dealing with these not secure and high risk derivatives that they have no control over and they shouldn't be involved. Spending is out of hand and the bubble was seen for a long time.... this mess had to happen. It was a bubble not a real free-market growth and it had to bust.

This is a bear market any way you look at it. I don't think there's any real disagreement on that. Unfortunately, it will get worse.

you can never tell if it is a bear market really until you are out of it or the drops are drastic like i said 15-20% drops daily. We are not there yet. I concurred I was wrong about the path it took today, but we do not know yet. It all could be a natural correction. we may lose a lot, but it could be correctng the markets.

 

 

Same thing with recessions you do not ever know if you a really in one until it has passed. The market is clearly a bad market, but we can not tell if it is bear or corrective yet.

I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative when it comes to economic policy, so if you try to peg me as a liberal you are dead wrong. My basic view of economics is this. There's gotta be a balance between supply side economic policies and Keynesian policies. The extremes are not practical. Tax cuts for the rich won't create economic growth unless there is sufficient demand from consumers. Stimulating demand in the form of tax cuts for the middle class is not enough if you don't provide the proper incentives to investors. The Fed's role is to ensure we do not enter pro-longed periods of recessions or depressions and that we maintain steady growth throughout. In other words, the government's role ought to be to provide the foundation for the principles of the free market to apply consistently. When it comes to regulation, I think we should have rules which maximize transparency on all sides, reduce fraudulent behavior, and maximize the availability of information so that investors can make well-reasoned decisons based on accurate and relevant information. After that, it's all on the private parties involved.

 

The problem with many of the regulations (or lack thereof) is that either 1) it strangles investors and companies, 2) doesn't require the disclosure of sufficient information, or 3) lets people get away with murder (fraud, etc.). Generally, conservative leaning regulations tend to do 2 and 3. Libearl leaning regulations do 1. I am in favor of common sense regulations that provide the foundation for healthy and sustained economic growth.

 

 

 

Off topic: the Dow is down 25 percent since October 2007. Anyone that says this isn't a bear market is smoking some good sh*t.

This is a bear market any way you look at it. I don't think there's any real disagreement on that. Unfortunately, it will get worse.

you can never tell if it is a bear market really until you are out of it or the drops are drastic like i said 15-20% drops daily. We are not there yet. I concurred I was wrong about the path it took today, but we do not know yet. It all could be a natural correction. we may lose a lot, but it could be correctng the markets.

 

 

Same thing with recessions you do not ever know if you a really in one until it has passed. The market is clearly a bad market, but we can not tell if it is bear or corrective yet.

 

15-20% drops daily would mean we are in the worst depression in American history by far. I think you're way off base.