They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

 

You gotta try him at this level to find out if he has it figured out yet. There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks. 17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed. The team is either going to readjust their thinking on him as to what role they want him to have, or they most likely will trade him, hopefully for someone that can fill that role. I highly doubt the latter happens this year. He gets another shot or two.

 

I like Tank alot. I hope he breaks through. But I wouldn't like a first round draft pick become a LOOGY, or any type of seldom used specialist for that matter. I can't see that would be what's best for the team.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

 

You gotta try him at this level to find out if he has it figured out yet. There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks. 17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed. The team is either going to readjust their thinking on him as to what role they want him to have, or they most likely will trade him, hopefully for someone that can fill that role. I highly doubt the latter happens this year. He gets another shot or two.

 

I like Tank alot. I hope he breaks through. But I wouldn't like a first round draft pick become a LOOGY, or any type of seldom used specialist for that matter. I can't see that would be what's best for the team.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

You don't seem to get it.

No one is saying, "Tankersley's in, no righties allowed." What people are saying is...it's stupid to use him against righties like Brandon Phillips (who absolutely destroy lefties). And Fredi did that too many times with Tankersley.

 

It's the big leagues...and big league managers have every stat available to them on the bench, with scouting reports, etc. There's no reason not to go with matchups late in tight ballgames.

They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

 

You gotta try him at this level to find out if he has it figured out yet. There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks. 17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed. The team is either going to readjust their thinking on him as to what role they want him to have, or they most likely will trade him, hopefully for someone that can fill that role. I highly doubt the latter happens this year. He gets another shot or two.

 

I like Tank alot. I hope he breaks through. But I wouldn't like a first round draft pick become a LOOGY, or any type of seldom used specialist for that matter. I can't see that would be what's best for the team.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

You don't seem to get it.

No one is saying, "Tankersley's in, no righties allowed." What people are saying is...it's stupid to use him against righties like Brandon Phillips (who absolutely destroy lefties). And Fredi did that too many times with Tankersley.

 

It's the big leagues...and big league managers have every stat available to them on the bench, with scouting reports, etc. There's no reason not to go with matchups late in tight ballgames.

Fredi has NEVER been good at bullpen management.

Oh, well in that case, I guess we'll just deal with it for the rest of the time he's our manager.

 

Also, there's no stigma that should be associated with 1st round pick and specialist. So many draft picks bust out anyways, a success is a success. And considering our division, with the likes of Utley, Howard, Delgado etc etc... a highly effective LOOGY is absolute gold

There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

 

Nah, I'll just *shrug* this, because it's so comical

 

17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed.

 

17 Innings is NOT a pretty good overview, 17 innings is subject to too much in the ways of good or bad luck... would you judge a batter on 17 ABs, or a pitcher on 2-3 starts? If you do, you're foolish...

 

And, nobody's saying he didn't get the outs, everything reflects that he didn't get them, but at the same time, he's not being used in a manner conducive for success. If a batter absolutely rips up LHP, why would you use a LHP against him. Bob... if you were playing blackjack... and you had an 18, and the dealer was showing a 6, would you hit? No, absolutely not, the odds are very much in your favor to succeed/win... same with Tank, if you use him against middle of the road RHP and essentially ANY LHP, it's cool... but when you have him hit on 20, or basically pitch against the Brandon Phillips of the world... he's gonna fail WAY more often than not. There's a reason guys like Brandon Phillips are in the lineup, to beat up on guys like Tankersley, Olsen, and basically any other lefty.

 

Also, yes, I'm sure if you ask him if he failed... he'll say he did. But I'm sure if you told Fredi that Phillips kills lefties and asked Fredi if he would have done it differently, he would have said yes. Ergo, Fredi failed... he failed as a manager because he didn't do his job - and his job, as manager, is to have his players ready to play and to put them in the best position to succeed. He didn't do that, just like Tank didn't get the out he needed to

They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

 

You gotta try him at this level to find out if he has it figured out yet. There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks. 17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed. The team is either going to readjust their thinking on him as to what role they want him to have, or they most likely will trade him, hopefully for someone that can fill that role. I highly doubt the latter happens this year. He gets another shot or two.

 

I like Tank alot. I hope he breaks through. But I wouldn't like a first round draft pick become a LOOGY, or any type of seldom used specialist for that matter. I can't see that would be what's best for the team.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

You don't seem to get it.

No one is saying, "Tankersley's in, no righties allowed." What people are saying is...it's stupid to use him against righties like Brandon Phillips (who absolutely destroy lefties). And Fredi did that too many times with Tankersley.

 

It's the big leagues...and big league managers have every stat available to them on the bench, with scouting reports, etc. There's no reason not to go with matchups late in tight ballgames.

 

Some don't get it is right. But, okay. No matter what actually happened, and no matter what Tank says actually happened, we will go ahead and push all the blame on Fredi for Tank's failures in '08. Makes perfect sense. Can't be Tank's fault, no matter what. Makes no sense to see if a guy can actually do what he is supposed to be doing, just that after the fact he didn't accomplish his potential and IT MUST BE SOMEBODY ELSES FAULT!!! Tank nad Jeremy, they are the two we should be building this team around. Get us a FO and coaching staff that realizes this little gem, and it's back to back to back Championships for us!!

 

Point is, Tank is supposed to do a job. He has shown in the past he can accomplish it. He failed at it this year and was sent down in July to work on things to become that pitcher again. But you guys want to blame a MOY for his troubles? Fine. Fredi didn't appear hurt or concerned about that at the Holiday Party last week. I don't think he cares what peoples' fantasy teams do or how their video games go. He appears to be building a team he can rely on. Tank is just a part of that, at least at this time. Last year was a building year for us. Give the kids more experience. Get them ready for the big push. That was a well known fact. Tank didn't come through and was sent down to work on his deficiencies to become part of that future. I really hope Tank makes it. But if not.......

There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

 

Nah, I'll just *shrug* this, because it's so comical

 

17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed.

 

17 Innings is NOT a pretty good overview, 17 innings is subject to too much in the ways of good or bad luck... would you judge a batter on 17 ABs, or a pitcher on 2-3 starts? If you do, you're foolish...

 

And, nobody's saying he didn't get the outs, everything reflects that he didn't get them, but at the same time, he's not being used in a manner conducive for success. If a batter absolutely rips up LHP, why would you use a LHP against him. Bob... if you were playing blackjack... and you had an 18, and the dealer was showing a 6, would you hit? No, absolutely not, the odds are very much in your favor to succeed/win... same with Tank, if you use him against middle of the road RHP and essentially ANY LHP, it's cool... but when you have him hit on 20, or basically pitch against the Brandon Phillips of the world... he's gonna fail WAY more often than not. There's a reason guys like Brandon Phillips are in the lineup, to beat up on guys like Tankersley, Olsen, and basically any other lefty.

 

Also, yes, I'm sure if you ask him if he failed... he'll say he did. But I'm sure if you told Fredi that Phillips kills lefties and asked Fredi if he would have done it differently, he would have said yes. Ergo, Fredi failed... he failed as a manager because he didn't do his job - and his job, as manager, is to have his players ready to play and to put them in the best position to succeed. He didn't do that, just like Tank didn't get the out he needed to

 

LOL

 

17.2 innings over 25 games for a relief pitcher that the team already knows what he capable of is a great overall view. Don't be a hypocrit. You've bashed other relief pitchers in alot less of a work span.

 

 

And once again the reasons why some are manager wanna-bes sitting in front of their computers telling everyone how things should have been done and some actually put on the uniforms become very apparent.

LOL

 

17.2 innings over 25 games for a relief pitcher that the team already knows what he capable of is a great overall view. Don't be a hypocrit. You've bashed other relief pitchers in alot less of a work span.

 

 

And once again the reasons why some are manager wanna-bes sitting in front of their computers telling everyone how things should have been done and some actually put on the uniforms become very apparent.

 

Please show me where I've "bashed" a RP for a small sample size... that is to say, less than 35 IP, which is still small, but I think 35 is reasonably low... but please, if you can find sub 17, more power to you

 

Also, don't play this high-and-mighty "the difference between so-and-so and a real manager" argument...

 

Like most managers, Fredi Gonzalez was just some no-name farmhand in the minors or former major leaguer that got a break managing some low level minor league team and progressed from there. Sorry I don't feel like devoting 20-30 years of my life doing that and would rather be a teacher... I guess I'm just a failure as a baseball fan, how long have you been working for a Major League club Bob?

 

Also... please identify how it's become apparent that the majority of people on this board have drastically inferior baseball minds compared to Fredi Gonzalez when Lefty/Righty matchups are the move du jour for major league managers and he can't even do that right...

I don't get how say Tank sucks against RHB then means we're saying nothing is his fault.

 

We're pointing out a giant FLAW. Don't you think that then goes against him? How the hell are we pampering a player by saying oh so eloquently "he sucks"?

They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

 

You gotta try him at this level to find out if he has it figured out yet. There's not a manager in baseball that locks himself in his office for a while, comes out and says "The player didn't do well on my Game Boy...Send him down." They leave that up to the manager wanna-bes/Monday morning quarterbacks. 17 or so innings is a pretty good overview on what he can do at this level. He failed. Push the blame away from him all you want. The fact is, he failed. Ask him and I'm sure he will tell you he failed. The team is either going to readjust their thinking on him as to what role they want him to have, or they most likely will trade him, hopefully for someone that can fill that role. I highly doubt the latter happens this year. He gets another shot or two.

 

I like Tank alot. I hope he breaks through. But I wouldn't like a first round draft pick become a LOOGY, or any type of seldom used specialist for that matter. I can't see that would be what's best for the team.

 

and seeing you must think this is just so cute.....*shrug that*

 

You don't seem to get it.

No one is saying, "Tankersley's in, no righties allowed." What people are saying is...it's stupid to use him against righties like Brandon Phillips (who absolutely destroy lefties). And Fredi did that too many times with Tankersley.

 

It's the big leagues...and big league managers have every stat available to them on the bench, with scouting reports, etc. There's no reason not to go with matchups late in tight ballgames.

 

Some don't get it is right. But, okay. No matter what actually happened, and no matter what Tank says actually happened, we will go ahead and push all the blame on Fredi for Tank's failures in '08. Makes perfect sense. Can't be Tank's fault, no matter what. Makes no sense to see if a guy can actually do what he is supposed to be doing, just that after the fact he didn't accomplish his potential and IT MUST BE SOMEBODY ELSES FAULT!!! Tank nad Jeremy, they are the two we should be building this team around. Get us a FO and coaching staff that realizes this little gem, and it's back to back to back Championships for us!!

 

Point is, Tank is supposed to do a job. He has shown in the past he can accomplish it. He failed at it this year and was sent down in July to work on things to become that pitcher again. But you guys want to blame a MOY for his troubles? Fine. Fredi didn't appear hurt or concerned about that at the Holiday Party last week. I don't think he cares what peoples' fantasy teams do or how their video games go. He appears to be building a team he can rely on. Tank is just a part of that, at least at this time. Last year was a building year for us. Give the kids more experience. Get them ready for the big push. That was a well known fact. Tank didn't come through and was sent down to work on his deficiencies to become part of that future. I really hope Tank makes it. But if not.......

 

 

Do you and Marlins2003 work on this before you wake up every morning or something?

Reading & comprehension is good.

 

NO ONE is saying that Tank is NOT at fault for anything. Clearly, Tank didn't have a good year. What we're adding is that Fredi Gonzalez didn't help the cause one bit by using him against CERTAIN RIGHTIES THAT DOMINATE LEFTIES at certain times last year. How is that so hard to understand? Let me guess...your comeback is going to be that I play video games now, right?

 

Same applies to Hermida. We're not saying none of this is his fault. Clearly, he didn't have a good year last year. Yet, what you Hermida haters fail to acknowledge is the fact that he had a very good year, the year before. The fact that he had a good minor league career. But no...lets just look at ONE year...it's ALWAYS smart to give up on 25 year olds, who were projected by actual major league scouts to be a top 5 prospect, once upon a time.

 

Get a clue.

 

You & Marlins2003 must be good friends. (or the same poster)

Ugh, Erick's spot on here... I'm so sick and f***ing tired of this "video games and fantasy leagues" crap... it's absolute s**t... grow up Broncobob, for one of the oldest posters on this site, you act absolutely immature at times.

 

And for what it's worth, despite you saying he's "succeeded" against both RHB and LHB before, RHB have OPS'd over .800 against Tank in his brief career, thus far... that's so VERY far from "succeeding"...

 

Even in Tank's best year, he had a "sparkling" WHIP of 1.4... and that number's been on the rise, because "omg he's a first round pick, we should send him against RHB that kill LHP, he should be immune to that"

 

As for MOY... yeah, that's indicative of greatness... Joe Girardi was a MOY, and he's a villain on this board for killing numerous pitcher's arms... but MOY means you're the best manager, right... so, can't go wrong there. You called me a hypocrite for something I've never even done... but you're willing to excuse Tank's shortcomings because he's a first round pick... but throw Hermida under the bus despite the same title... and then you go right back to excusing Fredi because he won an award... FYI, Nate McClouth won a Gold Glove despite being one of (if not the) worst OFers in the game... so awards don't mean that the person necessarily deserved it...

LOL

 

17.2 innings over 25 games for a relief pitcher that the team already knows what he capable of is a great overall view. Don't be a hypocrit. You've bashed other relief pitchers in alot less of a work span.

 

 

And once again the reasons why some are manager wanna-bes sitting in front of their computers telling everyone how things should have been done and some actually put on the uniforms become very apparent.

 

Please show me where I've "bashed" a RP for a small sample size... that is to say, less than 35 IP, which is still small, but I think 35 is reasonably low... but please, if you can find sub 17, more power to you

 

Also, don't play this high-and-mighty "the difference between so-and-so and a real manager" argument...

 

Like most managers, Fredi Gonzalez was just some no-name farmhand in the minors or former major leaguer that got a break managing some low level minor league team and progressed from there. Sorry I don't feel like devoting 20-30 years of my life doing that and would rather be a teacher... I guess I'm just a failure as a baseball fan, how long have you been working for a Major League club Bob?

 

Also... please identify how it's become apparent that the majority of people on this board have drastically inferior baseball minds compared to Fredi Gonzalez when Lefty/Righty matchups are the move du jour for major league managers and he can't even do that right...

 

You are funny. Thanks for tha laugh.

Do you and Marlins2003 work on this before you wake up every morning or something?

Reading & comprehension is good.

 

NO ONE is saying that Tank is NOT at fault for anything. Clearly, Tank didn't have a good year. What we're adding is that Fredi Gonzalez didn't help the cause one bit by using him against CERTAIN RIGHTIES THAT DOMINATE LEFTIES at certain times last year. How is that so hard to understand? Let me guess...your comeback is going to be that I play video games now, right?

 

Same applies to Hermida. We're not saying none of this is his fault. Clearly, he didn't have a good year last year. Yet, what you Hermida haters fail to acknowledge is the fact that he had a very good year, the year before. The fact that he had a good minor league career. But no...lets just look at ONE year...it's ALWAYS smart to give up on 25 year olds, who were projected by actual major league scouts to be a top 5 prospect, once upon a time.

 

Get a clue.

 

You & Marlins2003 must be good friends. (or the same poster)

 

Take your own advice. And I'm not a Hermida hater. Nor a Tank hater. Far from both.

 

Tank also did bad on the road, during day games, with runners on base, when he got behind in the count, etc... Don't just use some stats and ignore the rest. How exactly was Fredi supposed to use him?? Obviously you couple posters don't want him to be used to do the job he is here for. Instead opting to change the approach and use him differently. So is this now a Very Specialty pitcher just because a few people like him alot? My complaint on Fredi, the coaching staff, and the FO would be that they kept him up too long. Should have been in AAA working on things long before the end of July. He needed it, badly. It's that or hitters have him figured out and I would hate to think that.

 

"Get a clue."

Ugh, Erick's spot on here... I'm so sick and f***ing tired of this "video games and fantasy leagues" crap... it's absolute s**t... grow up Broncobob, for one of the oldest posters on this site, you act absolutely immature at times.

 

And for what it's worth, despite you saying he's "succeeded" against both RHB and LHB before, RHB have OPS'd over .800 against Tank in his brief career, thus far... that's so VERY far from "succeeding"...

 

Even in Tank's best year, he had a "sparkling" WHIP of 1.4... and that number's been on the rise, because "omg he's a first round pick, we should send him against RHB that kill LHP, he should be immune to that"

 

As for MOY... yeah, that's indicative of greatness... Joe Girardi was a MOY, and he's a villain on this board for killing numerous pitcher's arms... but MOY means you're the best manager, right... so, can't go wrong there. You called me a hypocrite for something I've never even done... but you're willing to excuse Tank's shortcomings because he's a first round pick... but throw Hermida under the bus despite the same title... and then you go right back to excusing Fredi because he won an award... FYI, Nate McClouth won a Gold Glove despite being one of (if not the) worst OFers in the game... so awards don't mean that the person necessarily deserved it...

 

Actually, I've never done either one. But that wouldn't fit your bashing of me, so just go ahead and continue.

 

"Grow up." Again, funny stuff. Please keep on.

Well Bob, I love that you've ignored the fact that I haven't judged a pitcher on fewer than 35 IP... thanks for proving me right!

 

Also, you're playing this game like we're digging deep to find success for Tankersley, we're not, we're VERY VERY VERY VERY much on the surface level. Tank has two scenarios, primarily, when he comes out to pitch... facing LHB or facing RHB - sure there are SHB, but they can only bat one or the other, typically, when they face him. So... since there are two scenarios and one happens more than the other, that is to say, on a level playing field Tank will face more RHB than LHB. In his career, RHB have beat up on him... LHB have not.

 

This is ridiculously simple. If Tank is highly successful against one set of batters and not-so-successful against others, why would you use Tank in a situation where he always has, and currently still does, in the majors OR minors, suck? Why not use him in that role we picked up Arthur Rhodes for? Everyone championed Rhodes for his performance and wanted us to re-sign him, when Tank could put up similar numbers in a similar role. Given quality of LHBs in our division, we need a high quality LOOGY... Tank has a high intrinsic value to the team for this very reason. You can't keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and since you're a "blood and guts" kinda guy... don't you think boosting his confidence by having him beat up on LHB will only help him against the middle-of-the-road RHB he'll face, as opposed to force-feeding him guys that can (and will) beat up on him in a misguided hope that he can suddenly stop these guys whose primary marketable skill is hitting LHP really well...

 

Oh - Merry Christmas

 

Actually, I've never done either one. But that wouldn't fit your bashing of me, so just go ahead and continue.

 

Nobody's bashed you, again, Merry Christmas

Do you and Marlins2003 work on this before you wake up every morning or something?

Reading & comprehension is good.

 

NO ONE is saying that Tank is NOT at fault for anything. Clearly, Tank didn't have a good year. What we're adding is that Fredi Gonzalez didn't help the cause one bit by using him against CERTAIN RIGHTIES THAT DOMINATE LEFTIES at certain times last year. How is that so hard to understand? Let me guess...your comeback is going to be that I play video games now, right?

 

Same applies to Hermida. We're not saying none of this is his fault. Clearly, he didn't have a good year last year. Yet, what you Hermida haters fail to acknowledge is the fact that he had a very good year, the year before. The fact that he had a good minor league career. But no...lets just look at ONE year...it's ALWAYS smart to give up on 25 year olds, who were projected by actual major league scouts to be a top 5 prospect, once upon a time.

 

Get a clue.

 

You & Marlins2003 must be good friends. (or the same poster)

 

Take your own advice. And I'm not a Hermida hater. Nor a Tank hater. Far from both.

 

Tank also did bad on the road, during day games, with runners on base, when he got behind in the count, etc... Don't just use some stats and ignore the rest. How exactly was Fredi supposed to use him?? Obviously you couple posters don't want him to be used to do the job he is here for. Instead opting to change the approach and use him differently. So is this now a Very Specialty pitcher just because a few people like him alot? My complaint on Fredi, the coaching staff, and the FO would be that they kept him up too long. Should have been in AAA working on things long before the end of July. He needed it, badly. It's that or hitters have him figured out and I would hate to think that.

 

"Get a clue."

 

 

Amazing...did you just use day/night splits as one of your stats?

Anyways...perhaps he did terrible in those situations due to the fact that he was facing some of the tough right-handers Benched posted at the beginning of this thread. Ever think of that?

 

If he can't pitch in the situations you mentioned...then he doesn't belong.

But fact is, Tank, right now, is nothing more than a LOOGY...something you & some others don't seem to get.

 

If Arthur Rhodes was facing guys like Brandon Phillips, etc...or going multiple innings in some games...fans wouldn't have wanted him back. Use Tank next year the same way we used Arthur Rhodes, and there's a good chance everyone will be on Tank's bandwagon once again.

Do you and Marlins2003 work on this before you wake up every morning or something?

Reading & comprehension is good.

 

NO ONE is saying that Tank is NOT at fault for anything. Clearly, Tank didn't have a good year. What we're adding is that Fredi Gonzalez didn't help the cause one bit by using him against CERTAIN RIGHTIES THAT DOMINATE LEFTIES at certain times last year. How is that so hard to understand? Let me guess...your comeback is going to be that I play video games now, right?

 

Same applies to Hermida. We're not saying none of this is his fault. Clearly, he didn't have a good year last year. Yet, what you Hermida haters fail to acknowledge is the fact that he had a very good year, the year before. The fact that he had a good minor league career. But no...lets just look at ONE year...it's ALWAYS smart to give up on 25 year olds, who were projected by actual major league scouts to be a top 5 prospect, once upon a time.

 

Get a clue.

 

You & Marlins2003 must be good friends. (or the same poster)

 

Take your own advice. And I'm not a Hermida hater. Nor a Tank hater. Far from both.

 

Tank also did bad on the road, during day games, with runners on base, when he got behind in the count, etc... Don't just use some stats and ignore the rest. How exactly was Fredi supposed to use him?? Obviously you couple posters don't want him to be used to do the job he is here for. Instead opting to change the approach and use him differently. So is this now a Very Specialty pitcher just because a few people like him alot? My complaint on Fredi, the coaching staff, and the FO would be that they kept him up too long. Should have been in AAA working on things long before the end of July. He needed it, badly. It's that or hitters have him figured out and I would hate to think that.

 

"Get a clue."

2007: 1.03 WHIP vs LHB, 1.96 WHP vs RHB

2006: 1.10 WHIP vs LHB, 1.66 WHIP vs RHB

 

Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out. :whistle

Two or three days ago, I don't remember which FSN rebroadcast a Marlins game from around the middle of May, beginning of June - anyways the backstory to the game was the condition of the relief corps and at one point (seventh, eighth inning) Gonzalez has no choice but to burn the next day's starter and bring him in the game. This was the Saturday/cowbells/Cody wins it with a walk-off if that stirs anyone's memory.

 

The point is you can't always look at a gamelog, box score or a stat line, and I'm a big fan of them all, unless you read the recap as well. Fredi didn't suffer through Pinto for too long and almost blow the game, in fact that evening he had no other choice, with his back pushed to the wall and the bullpen exhausted from previous work the FO relented finally and allowed him to devour Badenhop to keep the game in hand, by ordering up a new guy to replace him the next day.

 

At various times in the season, whether it was Tank or someone else, situational baseball goes out the window when real world problems emerge that no manager can do anything about (and most of us fans have no idea are going on such as tired arms or a bad cold or general exhaustion etc.) other than make the best of several bad or problematic choices. That game typified it. So when someone looks back and sees that Tank was used against fillintheblank or filintheblank was used out of his normal comfort zone to pitch two innings instead of his usual two batters, it's not always a choice but often a neccessity and that doesn't show up in the stats and to great extent leaves it to the manager to fall on the sword for making what looked like a poorly thought-out decision.

 

For all of those who will now rush to say "there he goes bashing stats again" I'm not, I'm speaking the "why" and not the result. I'm sure that if Fredi had his way he'd only use Tank or a number of others in their optimal situations, he'd only use certain pinch-hitters in certain situations, except things don't always turn out that way and with a finite number of guys any given night all you can do is make a decision and keep your fingers crossed.

Two or three days ago, I don't remember which FSN rebroadcast a Marlins game from around the middle of May, beginning of June - anyways the backstory to the game was the condition of the relief corps and at one point (seventh, eighth inning) Gonzalez has no choice but to burn the next day's starter and bring him in the game. This was the Saturday/cowbells/Cody wins it with a walk-off if that stirs anyone's memory.

 

The point is you can't always look at a gamelog, box score or a stat line, and I'm a big fan of them all, unless you read the recap as well. Fredi didn't suffer through Pinto for too long and almost blow the game, in fact that evening he had no other choice, with his back pushed to the wall and the bullpen exhausted from previous work the FO relented finally and allowed him to devour Badenhop to keep the game in hand, by ordering up a new guy to replace him the next day.

 

At various times in the season, whether it was Tank or someone else, situational baseball goes out the window when real world problems emerge that no manager can do anything about (and most of us fans have no idea are going on such as tired arms or a bad cold or general exhaustion etc.) other than make the best of several bad or problematic choices. That game typified it. So when someone looks back and sees that Tank was used against fillintheblank or filintheblank was used out of his normal comfort zone to pitch two innings instead of his usual two batters, it's not always a choice but often a neccessity and that doesn't show up in the stats and to great extent leaves it to the manager to fall on the sword for making what looked like a poorly thought-out decision.

 

For all of those who will now rush to say "there he goes bashing stats again" I'm not, I'm speaking the "why" and not the result. I'm sure that if Fredi had his way he'd only use Tank or a number of others in their optimal situations, he'd only use certain pinch-hitters in certain situations, except things don't always turn out that way and with a finite number of guys any given night all you can do is make a decision and keep your fingers crossed.

 

This is all cool and completely reasonable, and I'm sure (or hope, anyways) that most other people also get this. I think the general point being made at this particular juncture in the thread is that Tankersley, as to his career as a whole, sucks against RHB and owns LHB. As such, as a rule of thumb... unless there's absolutely no other choice, Tank should be prevented, by an armed guard if necessary, from pitching to guys like Brandon Phillips.

Two or three days ago, I don't remember which FSN rebroadcast a Marlins game from around the middle of May, beginning of June - anyways the backstory to the game was the condition of the relief corps and at one point (seventh, eighth inning) Gonzalez has no choice but to burn the next day's starter and bring him in the game. This was the Saturday/cowbells/Cody wins it with a walk-off if that stirs anyone's memory.

 

The point is you can't always look at a gamelog, box score or a stat line, and I'm a big fan of them all, unless you read the recap as well. Fredi didn't suffer through Pinto for too long and almost blow the game, in fact that evening he had no other choice, with his back pushed to the wall and the bullpen exhausted from previous work the FO relented finally and allowed him to devour Badenhop to keep the game in hand, by ordering up a new guy to replace him the next day.

 

At various times in the season, whether it was Tank or someone else, situational baseball goes out the window when real world problems emerge that no manager can do anything about (and most of us fans have no idea are going on such as tired arms or a bad cold or general exhaustion etc.) other than make the best of several bad or problematic choices. That game typified it. So when someone looks back and sees that Tank was used against fillintheblank or filintheblank was used out of his normal comfort zone to pitch two innings instead of his usual two batters, it's not always a choice but often a neccessity and that doesn't show up in the stats and to great extent leaves it to the manager to fall on the sword for making what looked like a poorly thought-out decision.

 

For all of those who will now rush to say "there he goes bashing stats again" I'm not, I'm speaking the "why" and not the result. I'm sure that if Fredi had his way he'd only use Tank or a number of others in their optimal situations, he'd only use certain pinch-hitters in certain situations, except things don't always turn out that way and with a finite number of guys any given night all you can do is make a decision and keep your fingers crossed.

 

 

And if you see my first post on this thread, I defend Fredi b/c of this very thing. However, when a guy like Brandon Phillips is up at the plate...Tank is the absolute last option (or at least he should be) out of the pen.

Two or three days ago, I don't remember which FSN rebroadcast a Marlins game from around the middle of May, beginning of June - anyways the backstory to the game was the condition of the relief corps and at one point (seventh, eighth inning) Gonzalez has no choice but to burn the next day's starter and bring him in the game. This was the Saturday/cowbells/Cody wins it with a walk-off if that stirs anyone's memory.

 

The point is you can't always look at a gamelog, box score or a stat line, and I'm a big fan of them all, unless you read the recap as well. Fredi didn't suffer through Pinto for too long and almost blow the game, in fact that evening he had no other choice, with his back pushed to the wall and the bullpen exhausted from previous work the FO relented finally and allowed him to devour Badenhop to keep the game in hand, by ordering up a new guy to replace him the next day.

 

At various times in the season, whether it was Tank or someone else, situational baseball goes out the window when real world problems emerge that no manager can do anything about (and most of us fans have no idea are going on such as tired arms or a bad cold or general exhaustion etc.) other than make the best of several bad or problematic choices. That game typified it. So when someone looks back and sees that Tank was used against fillintheblank or filintheblank was used out of his normal comfort zone to pitch two innings instead of his usual two batters, it's not always a choice but often a neccessity and that doesn't show up in the stats and to great extent leaves it to the manager to fall on the sword for making what looked like a poorly thought-out decision.

 

For all of those who will now rush to say "there he goes bashing stats again" I'm not, I'm speaking the "why" and not the result. I'm sure that if Fredi had his way he'd only use Tank or a number of others in their optimal situations, he'd only use certain pinch-hitters in certain situations, except things don't always turn out that way and with a finite number of guys any given night all you can do is make a decision and keep your fingers crossed.

 

 

And if you see my first post on this thread, I defend Fredi b/c of this very thing. However, when a guy like Brandon Phillips is up at the plate...Tank is the absolute last option (or at least he should be) out of the pen.

 

Let's see if Tank's role will change from last year to this year. Very possibly could. He got sent down because he wasn't fulfilling the role he was here for. Tank just didn't look like Tank last year. Uncomfortable, uncertain, and no confidence in almost every situation. The only thing really recognizable was his sprint from the pen to the mound. That really was the bottom line. Maybe this year Fredi will have a stronger pen, one that isn't being overused every month, and be able to make adjustments on the fly. It begins with the SPs not struggling just to get to 5 innings day in and day out. And to some extent the defense behind them.

 

My main complaint on the FO and coaching staff is they have a habit of keeping guys up here too long that are struggling, trying to let them work their way out of it. But even that is an after-the-fact complaint. It's far too easy to sit back after all is said and done and say they should have done this or that, without really knowing the behind the scenes reasons for those decisions. I would also like to see better communication between the pen and the dug out, and that may come with Foster having a better understanding of his role going into his 3rd ML season. But in his defense, he is better than some others we have had as pen coach.

I think you guys need to figure Tank will start in AAA also. He has an option left, while Kroenke and Meyer do not. They have a leg up on a roster spot right now because it's make the team or lose them. Marlins can always fall back onto whatever Tank is going to bring after giving a serious look to one of those first two.

Two or three days ago, I don't remember which FSN rebroadcast a Marlins game from around the middle of May, beginning of June - anyways the backstory to the game was the condition of the relief corps and at one point (seventh, eighth inning) Gonzalez has no choice but to burn the next day's starter and bring him in the game. This was the Saturday/cowbells/Cody wins it with a walk-off if that stirs anyone's memory.

 

The point is you can't always look at a gamelog, box score or a stat line, and I'm a big fan of them all, unless you read the recap as well. Fredi didn't suffer through Pinto for too long and almost blow the game, in fact that evening he had no other choice, with his back pushed to the wall and the bullpen exhausted from previous work the FO relented finally and allowed him to devour Badenhop to keep the game in hand, by ordering up a new guy to replace him the next day.

 

At various times in the season, whether it was Tank or someone else, situational baseball goes out the window when real world problems emerge that no manager can do anything about (and most of us fans have no idea are going on such as tired arms or a bad cold or general exhaustion etc.) other than make the best of several bad or problematic choices. That game typified it. So when someone looks back and sees that Tank was used against fillintheblank or filintheblank was used out of his normal comfort zone to pitch two innings instead of his usual two batters, it's not always a choice but often a neccessity and that doesn't show up in the stats and to great extent leaves it to the manager to fall on the sword for making what looked like a poorly thought-out decision.

 

For all of those who will now rush to say "there he goes bashing stats again" I'm not, I'm speaking the "why" and not the result. I'm sure that if Fredi had his way he'd only use Tank or a number of others in their optimal situations, he'd only use certain pinch-hitters in certain situations, except things don't always turn out that way and with a finite number of guys any given night all you can do is make a decision and keep your fingers crossed.

 

 

And if you see my first post on this thread, I defend Fredi b/c of this very thing. However, when a guy like Brandon Phillips is up at the plate...Tank is the absolute last option (or at least he should be) out of the pen.

 

Let's see if Tank's role will change from last year to this year. Very possibly could. He got sent down because he wasn't fulfilling the role he was here for. Tank just didn't look like Tank last year. Uncomfortable, uncertain, and no confidence in almost every situation. The only thing really recognizable was his sprint from the pen to the mound. That really was the bottom line. Maybe this year Fredi will have a stronger pen, one that isn't being overused every month, and be able to make adjustments on the fly. It begins with the SPs not struggling just to get to 5 innings day in and day out. And to some extent the defense behind them.

 

My main complaint on the FO and coaching staff is they have a habit of keeping guys up here too long that are struggling, trying to let them work their way out of it. But even that is an after-the-fact complaint. It's far too easy to sit back after all is said and done and say they should have done this or that, without really knowing the behind the scenes reasons for those decisions. I would also like to see better communication between the pen and the dug out, and that may come with Foster having a better understanding of his role going into his 3rd ML season. But in his defense, he is better than some others we have had as pen coach.

 

 

Definitely. A healthy starting staff will definitely help the pen this year.