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The wrong way to use Taylor Tankersley


Hammerhead

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All this talk of a new LOOGY coming to town got me thinking: just how did Taylor Tankersley post such horrid numbers after two great seasons of dominating left handed batting? I looked back at old box scores and game logs and here's what I found. Below is each game he appeared in, the score of that game, the batter faced and the outcome.

 

3-4: vs Marlon Anderson (K), vs Jose Reyes (FO)
0-8: vs Angel Pagan (1B), vs Ryan Church (GO), vs Brian Schneider (1B, ER)
4-4: vs Adam LaRoche (K)
2-5: vs Nyjer Morgan (1B), vs Nat McClouth (1B, RBI) vs Ryan Domit (FO), vs Xavier Nady (2R HR), vs Doug Mientkiewicz (FO), vs Jose Bautista (E), vs Chris Gomez (FO)
7-7: vs Nick Johnson (BB)
0-5: vs Brad Ausmus (S), vs Michael Bourn (K), vs Hunter Pence (FO), vs Mark Loretta (2B), vs Lance Berkman (K)
1-4: vs Geoff Blum (FO)
4-3: vs Chipper Jones (FC)
4-3: vs Nick Johnson (2B), vs Lastings Milledge (K) (BS, inherited both runners)
2-1: vs Nick Johnson (K), vs Felipe Lopez (K)
5-2: vs Mark Kotsay (BB, PICKOFF)
2-1: vs Craig Counsell (GO), vs Bill Hall (HR), vs Rickie Weeks (GO), vs Tony Gwyn (1B) (BS, left in to pitch to Hall, an .847 career OPS vs LHP, in a one run game)
1-10: vs James Loney (3B), vs Andruw Jones (BB), vs Matt DeWitt (1B), vs Chad Billingsley (K)
3-3: vs Hiroki Kuroda (K), vs Rafael Furcal (GO), vs Juan Pierre (1B), vs Matt Kemp (FO)
6-3: vs Calix Crabbe (FO), vs Brian Giles9 FO), vs Tadahito Iguchi (GO)
11-0: vs Elijah Dukes (FO), vs Jesus Flores (BB), vs Ronnie Belliard (FO), vs Felipe Lopez (1B), vs Cristian Guzman (FO)
4-4: vs Corey Patterson (1B), vs Jeff Keppinger (2R HR), vs Ken Griffey Jr (BB), vs Brandon Phillips (2R HR), vs Joey Votto (GO), vs Edwin Encarnacion (FO), vs Adam Dunn (FO) (L) (Keppinger: career .918 OPS vs LHP, Phillips: career .845 OPS vs LHP)
2-6: vs David DeJesus (FO)
1-9: vs Ray Durham (K), vs Rich Aurilia (FO), vs Omar Vizquel (FO)
4-4: vs Aaron Rowand (K), vs John Bowker (BB), vs Jose Castillo (GO), vs Emmanuel Buriss (FO)
3-11: vs Brett Myers (FO), vs Jimmy Rollins (FO), vs Shane Victorino (K)
5-5: vs Chase Utley (FO), vs Ryan Howard (HBP)
5-4: vs Gregor Blanco (K), vs Brian McCann (BB)
13-9: vs Ryan Spilborghs (HR), vs Clint Barmes (1B), vs Matt Holliday (K), vs Garrett Atkins (2R HR) (on top of this being the infamous humidifier game, Spilborghs: career .914 OPS vs LHP, Atkins: career .890 OPS vs LHP)
1-4: vs Ramon Castro (FO), vs Endy Chavez (FO), vs Jose Reyes (2B), vs Robinson Cancel (FO)

If you don't want to read all of that, I'll just summarize it: When he wasn't being used as a mopup reliever, he was being used in close game situations against batters that mash lefties (i.e. Brandon Phillips and Ryan Spilborghs). On the few occasions in which he did come in in the correct role and allowed a baserunner, he was left in to face the next hitter which usually wound up in him giving up an earned run ala the situation with Nick Johnson and Elijah Dukes which led to him posting horrifying numbers and led to the Marlins thinking they had to sign Arthur Rhodes even though they had a guy who absolutely destroys lefties sitting in the minors. He's sitting on the active roster now yet we're talking about signing the likes of Ray King.

 

It's pretty simple: We don't need another LOOGY. We need a manager who knows how to correctly manage a bullpen.

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Kroenke/Meyer/Tank will be fine for the 7th slot in the pen. By all means bring in more minor league free agents to compete with them, and King would be a great depth signing, but this isn't a big deal.

I agree that its not a big deal. The point moreover was that Gonzalez was terrible at managing the pen last season and Tank, despite his gaudy numbers last year, is still a very capable LOOGY that should be given a roster spot, no matter what.

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Maybe he wasn't being used, consistently, as a lefty specialist last year b/c of the .360/.467/.480 stat line against left-handed hitters in 31 PA's.

 

You make a good point of Fredi using him in a variety of ways which was dumb, but Tank didn't exactly help himself either, the way he pitched last year.

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we all know it, just look at how he overused guys like Gregg and Pinto.

 

 

 

It'll happen when you start the year with guys like Hendrickson, an inexperienced Vanden Hurk & De La Cruz, Badenhop, etc., etc., etc.

 

That's a big part of the reason why the Marlins should be better this year. B/c the staff is finally healthy, again.

 

Fredi didn't have too many options.

 

He had the "starters" I mentioned, and he had a struggling Tankersley & Miller...and Waechter who had a specific role, at the time, which was long relief (b/c we weren't getting enough innings from the crap pitching staff at the beginning of the year...& remember "the great" Joe Nelson didn't start the year with the team).

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we all know it, just look at how he overused guys like Gregg and Pinto.

 

 

 

It'll happen when you start the year with guys like Hendrickson, an inexperienced Vanden Hurk & De La Cruz, Badenhop, etc., etc., etc.

 

That's a big part of the reason why the Marlins should be better this year. B/c the staff is finally healthy, again.

 

Fredi didn't have too many options.

 

He had the "starters" I mentioned, and he had a struggling Tankersley & Miller...and Waechter who had a specific role, at the time, which was long relief (b/c we weren't getting enough innings from the crap pitching staff at the beginning of the year...& remember "the great" Joe Nelson didn't start the year with the team).

I don't care if he was the last guy in the pen. There's no excuse or reason to use Tankersley against a Brandon Phillips type.

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I don't care if he was the last guy in the pen. There's no excuse or reason to use Tankersley against a Brandon Phillips type.

 

I actually remember this game and could not believe he let him pitch to Phillips, I turned the game off after that at-bat I was so pissed lol.

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And yet Fredi got one of the MOY awards. Guess the other managers ought to hang their heads in shame.

 

Tank fans (and I include myself) can push the blame away all they want. Fact is, when he got the opportunites, he failed last year. I expect better things from him this year.

 

Yeah, but what's being argued here is the conventional wisdom that a manager should put his players in the best possible position to win/succeed. Fredi oft-times did not do this with Tank, which dramatically influenced his failures...

 

It'd be like if you were managing a game - and with the game on the line... having your pitcher pitch to Barry Bonds circa 2001 with first base open. It's just not the best move.

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And yet Fredi got one of the MOY awards. Guess the other managers ought to hang their heads in shame.

 

Tank fans (and I include myself) can push the blame away all they want. Fact is, when he got the opportunites, he failed last year. I expect better things from him this year.

 

Yeah, but what's being argued here is the conventional wisdom that a manager should put his players in the best possible position to win/succeed. Fredi oft-times did not do this with Tank, which dramatically influenced his failures...

 

It'd be like if you were managing a game - and with the game on the line... having your pitcher pitch to Barry Bonds circa 2001 with first base open. It's just not the best move.

:thumbup

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The issue with Tank is I'm sure they don't want him to be "just a LOOGY." First round draft pick that has done extremely well in the minors when he was a reliever, plus the "success" of his 2006 campaign. Of course, 2006 was only a "success" is you look at the wrong numbers. You could instead look at his WHIP oB 1.44 and see he was below average. You could then look at his splits and see it was because of his numbers against RHP (1.66 WHIP with a 7.65 BB/9). Tanks problem is mostly is his control against RHB. He still strikes them out at a rate higher than 1 per inning. He doesn't have a good HR/9, but that's mostly all because of his 2008 where he gave up 6 hrs in 12 inn. From 2006-2007 he had a .55 HR/9. The difference between his RHB and his LHB is that he walks batters at almost twice a rate, 3.77 v.s. 6.52. Last year was the first time his BB/9 against them was under 7.

 

You can let him take his lumps at the major league level, because yes that's where learning happens, and hope that, at only 26 years old, he learns his control against RHB and become a good overall reliever. Or you just call him a LOOGY and close the book.

 

I'd personally just like to call him a LOOGY but, if he could put up somewhat similar stats against RHB as he does LHB, you have a very very very good reliever on your hands.

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And yet Fredi got one of the MOY awards. Guess the other managers ought to hang their heads in shame.

 

Tank fans (and I include myself) can push the blame away all they want. Fact is, when he got the opportunites, he failed last year. I expect better things from him this year.

 

Yeah, but what's being argued here is the conventional wisdom that a manager should put his players in the best possible position to win/succeed. Fredi oft-times did not do this with Tank, which dramatically influenced his failures...

 

It'd be like if you were managing a game - and with the game on the line... having your pitcher pitch to Barry Bonds circa 2001 with first base open. It's just not the best move.

 

No it's not. Alot is expected of Tank and he will get the opportunties to prove himself. The reason he is being used like that is because of his potential. And the limited time he got here was because he was failing and needed to be sent down for more work. I think he either starts to live up to those expectations or he gets traded.

 

In a perfect world last year we would have had SPs that could go more than 5 innings instead of guys that struggled just to get that far. The pen got tired early. What should be more surprising was that Tank wasn't given more ops. But instead of detroying his confidence at this level during a season that started off as building for better things, they allowed him to go down and work on things. I doubt he was used "wrong." They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

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They just want different things from him than the manager wanna-bes want.

 

See... apparently you're not getting what we "manager wanna-bes" want from Tank. 'Cause see... we want him to go all Joey Devine too (that is, very awesome)... but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sending Tank, a left-handed pitcher, against hitters that OPS over .900 against LHP is one of those wrong things to do. If a Lefty-Righty-Lefty situation comes up, I have no problem with Tank going the whole inning, barring a Brandon Phillips is due up in a high leverage situation. If you have right handed hitters that are average against LHP, sure, maybe Tank can face them too in a Lefty-Righty-Righty inning, or any iteration of R-L-L.

 

But at the same time... when you only send Tank out in a mop-up role... or in situations where he's not likely to succeed... it doesn't matter how high your aspirations for the kid are, you're not going to build him up that way. It's going to have a detrimental effect... I do agree that having him go down to AAA is best if you want to make him a lefty that can beat RHBs too, but you can't "throw him to the wolves" in the majors like that.

 

He has shown a translation from minors to majors in that his OPSs vs LHB and RHB seem to be similar... So, if he can't do what you want from him at the MINOR league level, why keep bashing your head against the wall at the MAJOR league level when it's not showing signs of sustained success? If you want him to LOOGY, keep him up.. if you want him to be capable against both, send him down till he shows he can consistently do that - or don't use him against guys that mash lefties, or even guys that "beat up" on them.

 

But then again, we manager wanna-bes just want what's best for the team... sue us

 

*shrug*

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