March 26, 200917 yr why I won't believe it until I see the first pitch at the new stadium.. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/con...326stadium.html Fresh from arguably the biggest victory in team history - approval for a stadium to call its own - the Florida Marlins still must clear a string of obstacles before ground can be broken this summer. Post your comments on this story below The biggest obstacle: borrowing more than $300 million that will go toward construction of the 37,000-seat stadium in Little Havana. To do it, the county must sell bonds - backed by the promise of payment from tourist taxes - in a market roiled by the worst credit crisis in decades. Adding to the urgency, the bond sale needs to be well under way before the planned groundbreaking this summer. If the county determines it can't sell at the right price, the stadium deal can still be killed by July 1. But after that, there's no turning back. Securing stadium funding is one of several important steps the Marlins and government officials must take before the new stadium begins to rise on the former Orange Bowl grounds. But during the lengthy county commission debate Monday, the focus was on money. Commissioners repeatedly quizzed County Mayor Carlos Alvarez and Manager George Burgess about whether they will be able to win acceptable financing terms in a bond market that's already proven troublesome for government funding. Citing a paralyzed financial market, Miami-Dade Aviation announced in January that it was deferring a planned February offering of bonds to pay for massive construction at Miami International Airport. "Are we not afraid that we may encounter a similar reality when we attempt to sell the bonds necessary for construction of this stadium?'' asked Commissioner Audrey Edmonson, who ultimately voted with the 9-4 majority supporting the deal. Alvarez and Burgess said they didn't think so, but acknowledged they don't have a crystal ball. "We will only know how well we'll do in the market when we go into the market,'' said Burgess, adding: "We have not received any indications that we won't be successful.'' Burgess said the county is set to start meeting with credit-rating agencies and underwriters to price and sell the bonds. He rejected the possibility that the county could be left in the lurch, unable to obtain sufficient bond financing as the deadline approaches. "We will know before July 1, if not June 1,'' said Burgess. In one hopeful sign, Miami-Dade Aviation announced that it has decided to sell the $600 million in bonds it deferred earlier this year. FINANCING ASIDE . . . On another front, the team and its architectural firm, HOK, are set to go before Miami's Planning Advisory Board as part of an effort to win building approvals for the stadium, four garages and six surface parking lots on the 42-acre site. That meeting, set for April 1, will be followed by a final public hearing and vote on the building plans by the Miami Commission - which last week approved the stadium funding, construction and operating deal by a slim 3-2 vote. The city commission review will include everything from traffic flows into the stadium and pedestrian access to the size of public plazas around the facility. Some say the design of the garages flanking the ballpark will be a key element in determining whether the stadium connects and activates the surrounding neighborhood - specifically, whether the garages will deliver enlivened streets with ground-floor retail spaces, including bars and restaurants at its base, or simply walls off the ballpark from adjacent blocks. With commission approval in hand, Marlins officials must obtain a permit from the city's building department to start foundation work. Permits for erecting the stadium structure and installing innards like electrical and plumbing work will follow. County officials are also seeking a tax exemption for the project from the state's Department of Revenue. With that, the Marlins can buy building materials like screws, drywall and steel tax-free. Another coming task: Filling the thousands of jobs needed to erect the stadium in time for a planned 2012 opening. Over the next 30 days, the Marlins are conducting community-outreach meetings to explain the type of jobs available. In all, the team will offer 65 different bid packages for work, ranging from installing the seats in the stadium to landscaping around the site. "It's full rip ahead; we're focusing on getting everything ready to start construction,'' said Claude Delorme, Marlins senior vice president for stadium development, who said work has been under way for more than a year. "My objective is July 1.'' A TROUBLED MARKET Still, bond financing remains a paramount issue. Critics have questioned whether hotel taxes - which dropped 17 percent last month - will be enough to meet bond payments in future years. Another question is whether the government will be able to raise sufficient funds - on acceptable terms - by selling bonds in the current market. In December, the county's financial advisor, The PFM Group in Coral Gables, warned that "current market conditions are not conducive to any of the financings contemplated.'' The firm warned in a Dec. 19 memo to the Miami-Dade County Finance Department that "a substantial dislocation has occurred in the municipal market over the past year.'' Since then, said Leo Guzman, president of securities firm Guzman & Co. in Coral Gables, "there has been a very marginal improvement, but conditions are still far from normal.'' Miami-Dade Aviation's chief financial officer, Anne Syrcle Lee, was more upbeat, saying MIA expects to close on its bond sale by early May. "The market appears to be thawing,'' Lee said. "Things are moving again.''
March 26, 200917 yr None of these things should stop this from happening. This is all normal stuff that must be done in any project like this.
March 26, 200917 yr Its gotten to the point where I don't think anyone should let their guard down until Opening Day 2012. Its hard to be comfortable when there are so many morons involved in this process. Hopefully all of this stuff will run smoothly. :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray
March 26, 200917 yr "Barring a significant obstacle, such as the inability to sell construction bonds, the Marlins hope to break ground on the project in July and open the ballpark in 2012, when the team would be renamed the Miami Marlins. Legal action also still looms: auto dealer Norman Braman, who lost his lawsuit against the financing for the ballpark and other Miami projects last year, has filed his notice of appeal. Another lawsuit filed by two Miami activists claiming the deal was negotiated in private in violation of the state's public record laws was filed earlier this year. The deal can be terminated by the team, city or county before July 1 or the completion of sale of the bonds, whichever is earlier, but that is only expected to happen for a major issue, such as if the county is unable to sell bonds." http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/custom/...0,2237904.story Hopefully, the market picking up will help sell the bonds!!!... :banghead
March 26, 200917 yr Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice.
March 26, 200917 yr Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice. Oh. And correct me if I am wrong. That other case (the one that Judge Cohen was waiting on to make her final decision) was already on appeal... right? If that's the case, Braman has even less of a chance. And I have no idea what's less than 0.
March 26, 200917 yr Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice. Oh. And correct me if I am wrong. That other case (the one that Judge Cohen was waiting on to make her final decision) was already on appeal... right? If that's the case, Braman has even less of a chance. And I have no idea what's less than 0. many people's IQ's in relation to the topic at hand if i had to guess...
March 26, 200917 yr Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice. Oh. And correct me if I am wrong. That other case (the one that Judge Cohen was waiting on to make her final decision) was already on appeal... right? If that's the case, Braman has even less of a chance. And I have no idea what's less than 0. many people's IQ's in relation to the topic at hand if i had to guess... LMAO!!!!!
March 26, 200917 yr Author Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice. Oh. And correct me if I am wrong. That other case (the one that Judge Cohen was waiting on to make her final decision) was already on appeal... right? If that's the case, Braman has even less of a chance. And I have no idea what's less than 0. many people's IQ's in relation to the topic at hand if i had to guess... you're right, it's makes much more sense, since this is such an easy process and is infallable to just stick your head in the sand because the result you want is close maybe you can stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LA LA LA LA LA" until July, before making fun of our IQs who question the finality of this thing until it is, you know, final. Ass.
March 27, 200917 yr None of these things should stop this from happening. This is all normal stuff that must be done in any project like this. exactly...i mean why is this even news??? the herald will never stop hating...
March 27, 200917 yr None of these things should stop this from happening. This is all normal stuff that must be done in any project like this. exactly...i mean why is this even news??? the herald will never stop hating... This is the Palm Beach Post.
March 27, 200917 yr None of these things should stop this from happening. This is all normal stuff that must be done in any project like this. exactly...i mean why is this even news??? the herald will never stop hating... This is the Palm Beach Post. It was a Herald article. The Palm Beach Post ran their story.
March 27, 200917 yr Wherever the story ran, it's a legitimate point to bring up. Financing municipal bonds at a reasonable rate is no slam dunk these days. Just hope that the financial system stays the same or gets better before the bonds are sold. And beyond that, and more importantly, hope the financial system continues to stay the same or get better.
March 27, 200917 yr I brought this question up in September when the financial crisis was starting. I think it's a legitimate concern however it bothers me that the naysayers would be happy if the city were unable to sell the bonds to finance the statium regardless of what the implications are for the city's other current and future public works projects. Being unable to sell municipal bonds affects the city's ability to finance improvements and other necessary infrastructure projects. But these idiots would rather cut off there noses to spite their faces.
March 27, 200917 yr Well, the PBP needs to write something. Exactly. This is all pointless bullsh*t. Stick a fork in it. It's absolutely stupid to assume that the bonds won't get sold. And the activists who claim that the deal was negotiated in private have no evidence it was. They would have to be insiders to really find that out. If, in fact, the deal was done in private, they would have to prove that important decisions were DEFINITIVELY made at those private meetings and not at the commission votes. Therefore, they would have to identify specific important decisions that were made at these private meetings. Because I doubt they have these even if the deal was done in private, this lawsuit goes nowhere. And as for Braman, he is wasting his time. I thought I heard somewhere that he is on his third appeal notice, which means his second one was ignored or thrown out immediately. Like I said about Braman's appeal: Why would the court hear a case which higher state courts already heard? Also, why would the courts hear a case that was decided based solely on that other case which was held in the higher courts? What Braman's lawyers want to do is make the court hear the same case they had just heard just a few months ago, which was already decided. The Court is gunna see this as a waste of time since there was already precedence set on it... not once, but twice. Oh. And correct me if I am wrong. That other case (the one that Judge Cohen was waiting on to make her final decision) was already on appeal... right? If that's the case, Braman has even less of a chance. And I have no idea what's less than 0. many people's IQ's in relation to the topic at hand if i had to guess... you're right, it's makes much more sense, since this is such an easy process and is infallable to just stick your head in the sand because the result you want is close maybe you can stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LA LA LA LA LA" until July, before making fun of our IQs who question the finality of this thing until it is, you know, final. Ass. Or maybe you can make things up and try to pass the selling of these bonds as this HUGE obstacle. The problem with questioning the finality of the thing is that the doubts are based on stupidity. Anyone who thinks bonds (out of any other kind of investment) are hard to sell is a lunatic. EDIT: Especially if those bonds are backed by the tourism dollars generated by one of the biggest tourist hot spots in the world.
March 28, 200917 yr Author how am I making things up? I just posted the goddamn article. If you think the newspaper is making stuff up, contact their editor. I never even said this was an obstacle, just that it's not 100% till it's done July 1, Pollyanna.
March 28, 200917 yr how am I making things up? I just posted the goddamn article. If you think the newspaper is making stuff up, contact their editor. I never even said this was an obstacle, just that it's not 100% till it's done July 1, Pollyanna. I didn't mean you, specifically. What I meant was that those claiming that selling bonds would be a difficult obstacle are making things up. Generally, selling bonds is an easy and stress-free process. Even moreso bonds backed by bed taxes. Basically, what I am trying to say in a nutshell is, the claim "Selling the municipal bonds is going to be an obstacle" or "... can be an obstacle," or even using "obstacle" and "selling municipal bond" in the same sentence is wrong. Selling the bonds won't be an obstacle. Can we relax now?
March 28, 200917 yr I wouldn't consider the upcoming bond sale an obstacle, in the sense that it's not anywhere near a 50/50 chance that the bonds will be successfully priced and sold at a reasonable rate. Under present market conditions. If the offering had been last Friday, it's a done deal. 100% Though these days the successful selling of a municipal bond offering is not stress-free. The overall financial markets are still not functioning anywhere near the ways they should. . . IMO...if the markets stay as they are or improve then a successful bond sale is a done deal. But, that if as an uncertain if. We are in uncertain financial times. There's nothing to gain by covering your eyes and pretending that there were not a few times in the last year when a municipal bond offering like this would not have been attempted, or may have failed. Like the Dade County Airport bonds, also backed by the same general revenue backstop that backs the Marlins bonds. These airport bonds the county had to hold off on offering for awhile, until the markets got to the state that they're in right now. . We again just have to hope that the financial system continues to stay the same or improve. In the short-term, to help sell the bonds. In the long-term, to help us all.
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