August 11, 200916 yr Tonight Rockies Short Stop Troy Tulowitzki hit for the cycle in Colorado's win over the Cubs and now Jason Bartlett is currently a single away from hitting for the cycle himself in the same night. It is a rare occasion but has been done before as Adrian Beltre and Stephen Drew both hit for the cycle on Labor Day 2008 and George Burns and Bobby Veach did it all the way back in 1920. This would be a great day in baseball history if Bartlett can manage to get a single with the game in L.A. currently tied 7-7 in the bottom of the 7th and he is due up 2nd in the Rays half of the 8th.
August 11, 200916 yr If Tulo can obtain any kind of consitancy at the plate, he will be one of the NL's top SS, behind Hanley of course
August 11, 200916 yr Author If Tulo can obtain any kind of consitancy at the plate, he will be one of the NL's top SS, behind Hanley of course And Reyes and Rollins. Bartlett's chances look slim unless The Ray can tie it up against Fuentes and hold the Angels until he hits again.
August 11, 200916 yr If Tulo can obtain any kind of consitancy at the plate, he will be one of the NL's top SS, behind Hanley of course And Reyes and Rollins. Bartlett's chances look slim unless The Ray can tie it up against Fuentes and hold the Angels until he hits again. Reyes and Rollins have nothing on Troy. He is clearly the second best SS in the NL.
August 11, 200916 yr If Tulo can obtain any kind of consitancy at the plate, he will be one of the NL's top SS, behind Hanley of course And Reyes and Rollins. Bartlett's chances look slim unless The Ray can tie it up against Fuentes and hold the Angels until he hits again. Reyes and Rollins have nothing on Troy. He is clearly the second best SS in the NL. OPS+ this season: 1 Hanley Ramirez - 154 2 Marco Scutaro - 122 3 Yunel Escobar - 120 4 Troy Tulowitzki - 118 5 Derek Jeter - 116 6 Miguel Tejada - 112 7 Cristian Guzman - 102 8 Ryan Theriot - 96 9 Orlando Cabrera - 91 10 Alexei Ramirez - 88 11 Rafael Furcal - 84 12 Jimmy Rollins - 80 In the last 2 seasons: 1 Hanley Ramirez - 149 2 Jose Reyes - 114 3 Michael Young - 113 4 Yunel Escobar - 110 5 Derek Jeter - 108 6 Stephen Drew - 106 7 Jason Bartlett - 105 8 Rafael Furcal - 104 9 Cristian Guzman - 103 10 Marco Scutaro - 103 11 Jhonny Peralta - 102 12 Troy Tulowitzki - 102 13 Mike Aviles - 100 14 Miguel Tejada - 100 15 J.J. Hardy - 98 16 Ryan Theriot - 95 17 Jimmy Rollins - 93 In the last 3 seasons: 1 Hanley Ramirez - 147 2 Derek Jeter - 113 3 Yunel Escobar - 112 4 Michael Young - 110 5 Jose Reyes - 109 6 Cristian Guzman - 107 7 Troy Tulowitzki - 105 8 Jimmy Rollins - 103 What's so clear? The only clear thing is who's the best. Everything after that is in flux.
August 11, 200916 yr I was going off of this year. And I said in the NL, not MLB. Honestly, I never heard of OPS+. And I just read about it, and I think it is the best stat to evaluate a player. So, I stand corrected, I guess.
August 11, 200916 yr I was going off of this year. And I said in the NL, not MLB. Honestly, I never heard of OPS+. And I just read about it, and I think it is the best stat to evaluate a player. So, I stand corrected, I guess. Yeah, I missed that you said NL, not MLB. OPS+ isn't perfect, in that OPS itself isn't, but it's great for a quick offensive evaluation. And I think that when you're talking about "the best player" you can't go by just 1 year.
August 11, 200916 yr On the whole, in the NL, I think Rabb said it best when he said everything's in flux after Hanley. Tulo and Escobar are supposed to be great with the glove (Tulo got the fielding bible award for best fielder regardless of position) so if his offense can match the other guys roughly, I'd say he can easily be a solid second. This season, Yunel probably takes it.
August 11, 200916 yr Did anyone else read this as "Troy tulowitzki is a good Hitler, Jason Bartlett can be too."?
August 11, 200916 yr Tulowitzki's home OPS: 1.003 Tulowitzki's away OPS: .788 Everyone is Colorado is overrated.
August 11, 200916 yr Author Tulowitzki's home OPS: 1.003 Tulowitzki's away OPS: .788 Everyone is Colorado is overrated. Holliday's numbers we're so inflated at Coors but he is still a pretty good hitter. As for the SS Situation I was going by career numbers since Reyes has been hurt and Rollins numbers are in the shitter this season. Tulo is very good defensively but has to pick it up on the road to be up there on the list so I still think a healthy Reyes would be better then him. If you think about it though there two very different hitters, Reyes is more of a gap to gap hitter with Great speed and decent power, he'll have a high AVG and OBP, decent SLG% while Tulo is more of a power hitting shortstop who can hit 20 - 30+ homeruns a season for a lower average but will have more production with RBI's and SLG. As Rab said, right now we really only know who's the best and that's Hanley, everyone after is a cluster of names.
August 11, 200916 yr Tulowitzki's home OPS: 1.003 Tulowitzki's away OPS: .788 Everyone is Colorado is overrated. Holliday's numbers we're so inflated at Coors but he is still a pretty good hitter. As for the SS Situation I was going by career numbers since Reyes has been hurt and Rollins numbers are in the shitter this season. Tulo is very good defensively but has to pick it up on the road to be up there on the list so I still think a healthy Reyes would be better then him. If you think about it though there two very different hitters, Reyes is more of a gap to gap hitter with Great speed and decent power, he'll have a high AVG and OBP, decent SLG% while Tulo is more of a power hitting shortstop who can hit 20 - 30+ homeruns a season for a lower average but will have more production with RBI's and SLG. As Rab said, right now we really only know who's the best and that's Hanley, everyone after is a cluster of names. I'm not saying Tulowitzki isn't a good hitter, I'm just saying that he (along with Helton, Atkins, Hawpe, Holliday when he was playing in Colorado, etc.) is overrated. I agree that when Reyes is healthy, he is probably the second best shortstop because of how he utilizes his speed, and he's a pretty good defensive shortstop. Tulowitzki is up there, and Jeter is probably still up there because of his offense, but he's becoming more and more of a defensive liability as he ages. But either way, Hanley is miles ahead of the second best shortstop in the game.
August 12, 200916 yr Until Tulowitzke leaves Colorado, he's better then Reyes and Rollins, IMO. That doesn't make any sense. You're not a better hitter in Colorado, your stats are just inflated. If you mean that until Tulowitzki leaves Colorado, his stats will continue to be better than Reyes and Rollins, then yes, you would be right.
August 12, 200916 yr Until Tulowitzke leaves Colorado, he's better then Reyes and Rollins, IMO. I gotta agree with Dynasty. This makes very little sense. That's like saying that until Maybin leaves AAA he's better than Matt Kemp.
August 12, 200916 yr Author Until Tulowitzke leaves Colorado, he's better then Reyes and Rollins, IMO. That doesn't make any sense. You're not a better hitter in Colorado, your stats are just inflated. If you mean that until Tulowitzki leaves Colorado, his stats will continue to be better than Reyes and Rollins, then yes, you would be right. Exactly This.
August 12, 200916 yr I'm saying you cannot say Troy isn't better than Reyes or Rollins because of the ballpark he plays in. As long as he continues to play in Colorado, then he will be better than Reyes and Rollins. It's simply unfair to say he plays in Colorado, so he's not better than them because they don't play in Colorado. And for what it's worth, Troy is having a solid year hitting away from Colorado. And like PWG said, the glove plays a part, and Troy is arguably better than all of them.
August 12, 200916 yr I'm saying you cannot say Troy isn't better than Reyes or Rollins because of the ballpark he plays in. As long as he continues to play in Colorado, then he will be better than Reyes and Rollins. It's simply unfair to say he plays in Colorado, so he's not better than them because they don't play in Colorado. And for what it's worth, Troy is having a solid year hitting away from Colorado. And like PWG said, the glove plays a part, and Troy is arguably better than all of them. You're missing the mark. It's not that as long as he hits in Colorado he'll be a better hitter, it's that as long as he plays in Colorado he'll have better numbers. Those are two very different things. I'm sorry, even with defense in mind, I still think Reyes is the better player. He's been hitting in pitchers' parks and he still has put up better numbers over the last few years.
August 12, 200916 yr I'm saying you cannot say Troy isn't better than Reyes or Rollins because of the ballpark he plays in. As long as he continues to play in Colorado, then he will be better than Reyes and Rollins. It's simply unfair to say he plays in Colorado, so he's not better than them because they don't play in Colorado. And for what it's worth, Troy is having a solid year hitting away from Colorado. And like PWG said, the glove plays a part, and Troy is arguably better than all of them. I'm not saying that he isn't better than those two because of the ballpark he plays in, I'm saying his stats are inflated because of the ballpark he plays in. It's completely fair to say that someone is overrated if they play in Colorado, especially if they have over a .200 OPS difference between their home and away splits. Tulowitzki has a .788 OPS away from home, which is still good for a shortstop, but it's not that great. To say that we shouldn't take into account what ballpark they play in is ludicrous. If Rollins, Reyes, etc. played in Colorado, their OPS would probably be .100 points higher, so you definitely have to consider it. Tulowitzki is a great shortstop, no one is denying that, it's just that his stats would be much different if he didn't play at Coors field 82 times per year. And if you're talking about fielding, Rollins is one of the best in the game, if not the best. And Reyes is pretty good with the glove too.
August 12, 200916 yr Rollins isn't very good on the road, either. And he plays in an extreme hitters ballpark, too. As for Reyes, I just don't see him being a better hitter than Troy. Even though Troy plays in Coors, I still think he's better than Reyes and Rollins. Even if he played in a different ballpark. Defensively, Troy is one of the best, as well. He won fieldingbible award for best glove in 07.
August 12, 200916 yr Rollins isn't very good on the road, either. And he plays in an extreme hitters ballpark, too. As for Reyes, I just don't see him being a better hitter than Troy. Even though Troy plays in Coors, I still think he's better than Reyes and Rollins. Even if he played in a different ballpark. Defensively, Troy is one of the best, as well. He won fieldingbible award for best glove in 07. Rollins has an OPS .071 higher at home during his career, while Tulowitzki's is .140 higher at home. Coors is the biggest hitters park in the MLB. And don't forget that hitting is only part of Reyes' game. His best asset is being able to utilize his speed (bunt for hits, etc.) Reyes is just as good of a hitter, plus a much better base runner, and his fielding skills are right up there with Tulowitzki.
August 12, 200916 yr Rollins isn't very good on the road, either. And he plays in an extreme hitters ballpark, too. As for Reyes, I just don't see him being a better hitter than Troy. Even though Troy plays in Coors, I still think he's better than Reyes and Rollins. Even if he played in a different ballpark. Defensively, Troy is one of the best, as well. He won fieldingbible award for best glove in 07. Reyes has been a better hitter than Troy, statistically, in the last few years. He's also got a very good glove and has been hitting in two pitchers' parks for half his games. Look, my thing wasn't even about who was the second best. My thing was about one being "clearly" the second best, which is very wrong to say.
August 12, 200916 yr I guess saying clearly the second best was wrong. I still think he is better than Rollins, but I guess Reyes and Escobar can be considered better than him.
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