Kony 2012

[Jonny Ramos]

KONY 2012 is a film and campaign by Invisible Children that aims to make Joseph Kony famous, not to celebrate him, but to raise support for his arrest and set a precedent for international justice.

 

 

http://vimeo.com/invisible/kony2012

http://vimeo.com/37119711

[MarlinKidd101]

This is getting annoying...

[Jonny Ramos]

This is getting annoying...

 

 

Black kids in Africa getting killed, so annoying.

[MarlinKidd101]

Exactly

[Jonny Ramos]

Beat you to it.

[MarlinKidd101]

Uganda be kidding me

[Dr Beinfest]

Nobody on Facebook got my sheep humor. They all thought I was being humorous but agreeing with the campaign. So all of the sheep liked my photo. Oh, the irony.

[mystikol87]

I'm not saying this campaign isn't stupid, but it's not automatically stupid. Healthy skepticism is fine and recommended, but it's not cool to think anything a bunch of people get on board with is automatically idiotic.

 

But it might be.

[Jonny Ramos]

I'm not saying this campaign isn't stupid, but it's not automatically stupid. Healthy skepticism is fine and recommended, but it's not cool to think anything a bunch of people get on board with is automatically idiotic.

 

But it might be.

 

 

You guys might be judging this a bit harsh. Just doing a little bit of research you can see the guy that started this whole thing really cares about this issue, and all he is doing is just providing awareness. He isn't asking you to "...to fly to Africa and fight this guy", It's your choice if you chose to do something about it from donating a few dollars to being more involved if you chose to.

 

Hey, I posted this video here so i did my part.

[Dr Beinfest]

I'm not saying this campaign isn't stupid, but it's not automatically stupid. Healthy skepticism is fine and recommended, but it's not cool to think anything a bunch of people get on board with is automatically idiotic.

 

But it might be.

 

 

The movement is not stupid. The fact that people can't decide these things for themselves and they're so easily captured and controlled by media sensationalism is what pisses me off. It really has little to do with IC themselves. You see this every day with politics. It's a logical fallacy in itself (but more extreme in this example). Everyone is doing it, so I will do it too. Running off pure emotion and nothing more.

 

I mean, I'm not even for or against Invisible Children. I've heard some nasty things about them, but at the same time on the inverse I reserve the right to question what the opposition is telling me, just like I question what I see from IC.

 

My sister works in a similar industry as Invisible Children, except her company is much, much larger and actually is one of the few that is for profit. That sounds like an awful thing, but in reality all of these companies are just beating around the bush to get the label of 'non-profit'. Just means to me that they're willing to lie and cheat to get their point across. Whether they're still genuine with their intentions is not my call to make, but it will let me remain forever skeptical of them. They wont see a dime of my money.

 

Also, I find it funny that this country went to be the night before not knowing who Joseph Kony was or where Uganda was, and woke up as political activists the next morning. Not that that's a big deal (because that just means the campaign was successful in educating the people). Just funny how ignorant people are, and will go out and pretend like they were professed the entire time and blah blah blah. I saw a Facebook post yesterday from a friend of a friend on their Kony 2012 status...

 

The status asked: Who is this Joseph Kony person I keep hearing about?

Response: He is the most wanted man in the world and there is a movement rising to stop him.

 

Ehe.

[Dr Beinfest]

You guys might be judging this a bit harsh. Just doing a little bit of research you can see the guy that started this whole thing really cares about this issue, and all he is doing is just providing awareness. He isn't asking you to "...to fly to Africa and fight this guy", It's your choice if you chose to do something about it from donating a few dollars to being more involved if you chose to.

 

Hey, I posted this video here so i did my part.

 

 

That's not doing your part. Just sayin'.

 

If it were, you were always the kid in class who tried to get the easiest task in group work.

[Jonny Ramos]

You guys might be judging this a bit harsh. Just doing a little bit of research you can see the guy that started this whole thing really cares about this issue, and all he is doing is just providing awareness. He isn't asking you to "...to fly to Africa and fight this guy", It's your choice if you chose to do something about it from donating a few dollars to being more involved if you chose to.

 

Hey, I posted this video here so i did my part.

 

 

That's not doing your part. Just sayin'.

 

If it were, you were always the kid in class who tried to get the easiest task in group work.

 

That was... sarcasm.

 

Edit: But I still tried getting the easiest task.

[Dr Beinfest]

Oh, gotcha. Sarcasm eDetector often fails me.

[mystikol87]

I'm not saying this campaign isn't stupid, but it's not automatically stupid. Healthy skepticism is fine and recommended, but it's not cool to think anything a bunch of people get on board with is automatically idiotic.

 

But it might be.

 

 

The movement is not stupid. The fact that people can't decide these things for themselves and they're so easily captured and controlled by media sensationalism is what pisses me off. It really has little to do with IC themselves. You see this every day with politics. It's a logical fallacy in itself (but more extreme in this example). Everyone is doing it, so I will do it too. Running off pure emotion and nothing more.

 

I mean, I'm not even for or against Invisible Children. I've heard some nasty things about them, but at the same time on the inverse I reserve the right to question what the opposition is telling me, just like I question what I see from IC.

 

My sister works in a similar industry as Invisible Children, except her company is much, much larger and actually is one of the few that is for profit. That sounds like an awful thing, but in reality all of these companies are just beating around the bush to get the label of 'non-profit'. Just means to me that they're willing to lie and cheat to get their point across. Whether they're still genuine with their intentions is not my call to make, but it will let me remain forever skeptical of them. They wont see a dime of my money.

 

Also, I find it funny that this country went to be the night before not knowing who Joseph Kony was or where Uganda was, and woke up as political activists the next morning. Not that that's a big deal (because that just means the campaign was successful in educating the people). Just funny how ignorant people are, and will go out and pretend like they were professed the entire time and blah blah blah. I saw a Facebook post yesterday from a friend of a friend on their Kony 2012 status...

 

The status asked: Who is this Joseph Kony person I keep hearing about?

Response: He is the most wanted man in the world and there is a movement rising to stop him.

 

Ehe.

Have you watched the video? The people reposting it are not simply doing because others are doing it. It's an emotionally-charged and pretty well-done video, even if it's premises might be questionable and the organization not the best around.

[Dr Beinfest]

Have you watched the video? The people reposting it are not simply doing because others are doing it. It's an emotionally-charged and pretty well-done video, even if it's premises might be questionable and the organization not the best around.

 

 

Yes I've watched it.

 

Don't tell me for one second that each re-post you see is an independent decision. The more others repost it, the more people feel the obligation to watch the video. The more people become emphatic about the movement, the more their friends do, too. It's a flock-of-sheep reaction.

[mystikol87]

Have you watched the video? The people reposting it are not simply doing because others are doing it. It's an emotionally-charged and pretty well-done video, even if it's premises might be questionable and the organization not the best around.

 

 

Yes I've watched it.

 

Don't tell me for one second that each re-post you see is an independent decision. The more others repost it, the more people feel the obligation to watch the video. The more people become emphatic about the movement, the more their friends do, too. It's a flock-of-sheep reaction.

I didn't say that each re-post is an independent decision. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

You call that an "obligation"; it's more aptly called "curiosity." So many people are posting this; I wonder why?

 

As far as post-video reactions, I'm sure people are (at least) partially moved by their friends' [posted] opinions, absolutely. And of course that can produce silly results when done mindlessly.

 

But it's not automatically worthy of contempt just because people have quickly gotten into it. And it's not wrong to quickly become very into a cause. It's obnoxious if you imply that you knew about it before others did, but is that really even a big deal?

[dim]

I've known about Kony since I learned about Invisible Children in a Human Geography class two or so years back.

 

I'm not saying this isn't a fad, but whatever it is, the case is noble. It's a huge problem that goes undetected by the American public. If politicians know (think) that people honestly care about this issue, then maybe we can bring in some real troops to find Kony and save thousands of kids from captivity. I don't think the children who are rescued will care if people in the US care for a year and get Kony captured, only people stop caring after the year. Lives saved are lives saved.

[dim]

And yes, there's an obvious problem with the campaign itself, but it's at least a start to making the cause relevant.

[dim]

I knew nothing about this until now, but it took me 7 seconds to find out that "Invisible Children" is a very questionable organization.

 

 

How so? I honestly want to know.

[Jonny Ramos]

An op-ed I agree partly with. I think this part is pretty pointed:

 

During the past decade, U.S.-based activists concerned about the LRA have successfully, if quietly, pressured the George W. Bush and Obama administrations to take a side in the fight between the LRA and the Ugandan government. Among the most influential of advocacy groups focusing specifically on the LRA are the Enough project, the Resolve campaign, the Canadian-based group GuluWalk, and the media-oriented group Invisible Children. Older agencies, from Human Rights Watch to World Vision, have also been involved. In their campaigns, such organizations have manipulated facts for strategic purposes, exaggerating the scale of LRA abductions and murders and emphasizing the LRA's use of innocent children as soldiers, and portraying Kony -- a brutal man, to be sure -- as uniquely awful, a Kurtz-like embodiment of evil. They rarely refer to the Ugandan atrocities or those of Sudan's People's Liberation Army, such as attacks against civilians or looting of civilian homes and businesses, or the complicated regional politics fueling the conflict.

 

http://www.foreignaf...e-lra?page=show

 

There is a huge fallacy in all this, and that is that there are always going to be fires to put out. There is always going to be something wrong with the world, but that doesn't make this issue less important.

 

I really don't understand that reasoning- Kony's bad, but look at this other horrible thing going on over there!

[Dr Beinfest]

It's obnoxious if you imply that you knew about it before others did, but is that really even a big deal?

 

 

I said that as an aside. I find it funny. I know it's not a big deal. I'm just saying that the weak minded individuals are the ones who wont know who they're supporting or what they're doing. It's the same as politics, for better or for worse. I made my case, I never said I was for or against it based upon the first impression of watching the film. I reserve the right to remain skeptical of everything I hear from both sides of the argument, because the fact is I am not one to speak if I am not fully educated on the topic, and I am also not one to trust another person just because they told me so.

 

But yeah, it is for better or for worse. Politicians might have a goal in mind that is actually beneficial, even though the people disagree. Say the US went into Iraq for economic reasons only... just as an example. Say the operation was a complete success, and our economy was booming because of it. That would be an example of using the flock of sheep under false pretense, if you will. There's no telling for sure what peoples intentions are, and I find it sad that the average person can't question these things for themselves.

 

But the whole thing about people not knowing where Uganda is or who Kony is... that's just a part of the sensationalism. They went from knowing nothing to still knowing almost nothing. Yet it's a huge deal.

[Dr Beinfest]

Tim Tebow is now irrelevant -- the world has Joseph Kony.

[EricWiener]

Kony is a terrible murderer - he is fighting against terrible murderers. Invisible Children is a dubious group at best. Basically, there is nobody to back in this mess and reposting this video in ignorance of the facts is pointless.

[mystikol87]

It's obnoxious if you imply that you knew about it before others did, but is that really even a big deal?

 

 

I said that as an aside. I find it funny. I know it's not a big deal. I'm just saying that the weak minded individuals are the ones who wont know who they're supporting or what they're doing. It's the same as politics, for better or for worse. I made my case, I never said I was for or against it based upon the first impression of watching the film. I reserve the right to remain skeptical of everything I hear from both sides of the argument, because the fact is I am not one to speak if I am not fully educated on the topic, and I am also not one to trust another person just because they told me so.

 

But yeah, it is for better or for worse. Politicians might have a goal in mind that is actually beneficial, even though the people disagree. Say the US went into Iraq for economic reasons only... just as an example. Say the operation was a complete success, and our economy was booming because of it. That would be an example of using the flock of sheep under false pretense, if you will. There's no telling for sure what peoples intentions are, and I find it sad that the average person can't question these things for themselves.

 

But the whole thing about people not knowing where Uganda is or who Kony is... that's just a part of the sensationalism. They went from knowing nothing to still knowing almost nothing. Yet it's a huge deal.

I never disagreed with the skepticism; in fact, I encouraged it. I didn't respond to your post directly, which was deliberate; I didn't pointedly disagree with it, but I think there some over-extreme reactions int he other direction too, and they could be potentially counterproductive. And again, that's not to say there aren't disturbing things about/implied by the pro-this-video-thingy trend. But, just like you said, for better or for worse -- tough to know in any particular case.

[mystikol87]

Kony is a terrible murderer - he is fighting against terrible murderers. Invisible Children is a dubious group at best. Basically, there is nobody to back in this mess and reposting this video in ignorance of the facts is pointless.

 

Pretty much.

That, and as you mentioned before, I really don't want US resources being spent there and US lives being risked there. Some will think that's cold, but non-interventionist is my preferred stance on foreign affairs. And I wouldn't break that trend just because someone is "really bad" unless they're also threatening the US in some (at least semi) direct way; but here, this isn't even an obvious case, for the reasons above.

 

In fairness, though, whether or not Invisible Children is a "good" organization has little to no bearing on whether this is an issue worth caring about/doing something about/getting worked up about, etc. It might impact whether or not you want to or should make donations directly to them, but that doesn't tell us anything about the LRA and Ugandan situation.