December 10, 200322 yr i hate the cubs but i still gotta say prior and wood cause they are unstoppable. We stopped them on game 6 and 7 of the NLCS And espo397x and Ryppi, yeah I know that Steve Bartman is to blame, no need to remind me. Im talking about regular season! Postseason we kill the cubs! but i was talking regular season.
December 10, 200322 yr i hate the cubs but i still gotta say prior and wood cause they are unstoppable. We stopped them on game 6 and 7 of the NLCS And espo397x and Ryppi, yeah I know that Steve Bartman is to blame, no need to remind me. Whatever, just keep in mind that performance in games 5, 6, and 7 of a playoff series should not represent all of what a player can do. The Cubs staff was much more dominant during the entirety of the 2003 regular season, and hopefully will also be so in 2004.
December 10, 200322 yr Author On a basis of consistency over the long run, Prior blows beckett out ofthe water. Burnett is better than wood, not prior. WOod has a chance to be better than burnett if pitching with Prior continues to help him. Zambrano will be even better next year. Clement continues to improve. Our possible fives: Cruz Mitre Guzman Mitre is awesome. He pitched great in the season finale against a tough Pirate lineup (and they are tough) But guzman will just be dominant.
December 10, 200322 yr You had me, and then lost me with Mitre. Sergio Mitre???? Just bring up Cruz and his progression into a dynamite starter. There's your #5, if Guzman doesn't pan out. Good call on Zambrano. That guy's going to be great.
December 10, 200322 yr Author Mitre is raw. The pittsburg pirates are a very good hitting club. He shut them down. I'd much rather have him than Cruz, as he has much more poise. But he'll probably never get further than the Cubs bullpen. Guzman will pan out.
December 10, 200322 yr i hate the cubs but i still gotta say prior and wood cause they are unstoppable. We stopped them on game 6 and 7 of the NLCS And espo397x and Ryppi, yeah I know that Steve Bartman is to blame, no need to remind me. Whatever, just keep in mind that performance in games 5, 6, and 7 of a playoff series should not represent all of what a player can do. The Cubs staff was much more dominant during the entirety of the 2003 regular season, and hopefully will also be so in 2004. Have I said that Marlins pitching is better than Cubs pitching? I just said that Prior and Wood being unstoppable is not true. And yes, Cubs pitching is better but not by much. You know, you don't win 91 games and a World Series without pitching
December 10, 200322 yr Mitre is raw. The pittsburg pirates are a very good hitting club. He shut them down. I'd much rather have him than Cruz, as he has much more poise. But he'll probably never get further than the Cubs bullpen. Guzman will pan out. If you say so. But as I recall, he lost the damn game. And these were the Pirates, not the Red Sox! We took all their best players, remember?
December 10, 200322 yr Author He didn't take the loss. He was pulled after 5 working a shutout. And the Pirates were still one of the top hitting teams last year. 7th in batting average or something?
December 10, 200322 yr Marlins.... Maybe because in the big games Wood and Prior Choked ala game 6 and 7 of the NLCS. Meanwhile Pavz in game 6, Beckett finishing it off in game 7. And Willis did not have as bad a second half espo. In fact I think in September he went 2-1 with like a mid 2 era and July was the only month he was hit hard really.
December 11, 200322 yr Author Keep dreaming. Bartman changed the whole momentum of that game. Other things like this have happened before, and the team never comes back. Prior is the most dominant pitcher on either of the two teams. He was better than anyone on your team. Two games cannot detrmine which is better. But seasons can. Prior.
December 11, 200322 yr Keep dreaming. Bartman changed the whole momentum of that game. Other things like this have happened before, and the team never comes back. Prior is the most dominant pitcher on either of the two teams. He was better than anyone on your team. Two games cannot detrmine which is better. But seasons can. Prior. No your great shortstop did.
December 12, 200322 yr On a basis of consistency over the long run, Prior blows beckett out ofthe water. We have yet to see what Beckett can do over the long run, so I don't think that is a fair statement. Every sign points to Beckett being a dominant starter over the long haul. His stuff is just as good and both are the same age. The only difference? Beckett is a cocky intiminator who won't back down. Not only will he not back down, but he'll knock you on your a** on top of it (just ask Mr. Sosa). Beckett has the better phycological makeup than Prior, respectfully. Before the Post-Season, I would have agreed with you if you said Prior was far ahead of Beckett. I know one month shouldn't determine the ability of a player, but Beckett showed what he was made of. He's an awesome pitcher that rises to the occasion. The man pitched the game of his life IN the game of his life, something Prior almost did, but just couldn't finish. Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett
December 12, 200322 yr Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett you cannot be serious I think he is serious and I agree with him. Beckett hasn't pitched a full season without injury yet and has shown that he can dominate like the way Clemens used to or the way Pedro does now.
December 12, 200322 yr Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett you cannot be serious I think he is serious and I agree with him. Beckett hasn't pitched a full season without injury yet and has shown that he can dominate like the way Clemens used to or the way Pedro does now. until Beckett stays healthy.... Prior>Beckett no way to argue that
December 12, 200322 yr On a basis of consistency over the long run, Prior blows beckett out ofthe water. We have yet to see what Beckett can do over the long run, so I don't think that is a fair statement. Every sign points to Beckett being a dominant starter over the long haul. His stuff is just as good and both are the same age. The only difference? Beckett is a cocky intiminator who won't back down. Not only will he not back down, but he'll knock you on your a** on top of it (just ask Mr. Sosa). Beckett has the better phycological makeup than Prior, respectfully. Before the Post-Season, I would have agreed with you if you said Prior was far ahead of Beckett. I know one month shouldn't determine the ability of a player, but Beckett showed what he was made of. He's an awesome pitcher that rises to the occasion. The man pitched the game of his life IN the game of his life, something Prior almost did, but just couldn't finish. Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett So Beckett's an a**hole. Great.
December 12, 200322 yr Author Prior has the best poise of any yonug pitcher in baseball. Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett Not by any stretch of the imagination. I think he is serious and I agree with him. Beckett hasn't pitched a full season without injury yet and has shown that he can dominate like the way Clemens used to or the way Pedro does now. You know who else dominates? Right now? This season? Mark Prior. Don't act like Pedro is in a league of his own. Prior hasn't just shown that he CAN be as dominant as Pedro, Prior IS as dominant as Pedro. No if's.
December 12, 200322 yr On a basis of consistency over the long run, Prior blows beckett out ofthe water. We have yet to see what Beckett can do over the long run, so I don't think that is a fair statement. Every sign points to Beckett being a dominant starter over the long haul. His stuff is just as good and both are the same age. The only difference? Beckett is a cocky intiminator who won't back down. Not only will he not back down, but he'll knock you on your a** on top of it (just ask Mr. Sosa). Beckett has the better phycological makeup than Prior, respectfully. Before the Post-Season, I would have agreed with you if you said Prior was far ahead of Beckett. I know one month shouldn't determine the ability of a player, but Beckett showed what he was made of. He's an awesome pitcher that rises to the occasion. The man pitched the game of his life IN the game of his life, something Prior almost did, but just couldn't finish. Entering 2004: Prior = Beckett I agree with you WC, nice assessment. In addition, Beckett dominance started just before the playoff, by putting away the Phillies. Just ask Admin Bowa - "best stuff we have seen all year, nothing we could do about it". Once Beckett won the game against the Phillies, the season was pretty much over for them. You can't overlook what he did on the postseason and most importantly, under what conditions. I agree that Beckett = Prior, and Beckett may take the lead on 2004
December 12, 200322 yr Wrong. It is the Marlins. Why? Can anyone on the Cubs staff pitch like Beckett?! Didnt you guys see the playoffs?! Game 6 Prior blew it. Game 7 Woods blew it. I don't think it's correct to base your opinion on Wood and Prior in one game. When Beckett puts up numbers CONSISTENTLY (not just one year), then yes, he may be better than Wood or Prior. Until then, I'll take Wood and Prior PROBABLY over anyone in our rotation.
December 12, 200322 yr ERA+ is the number I will use...if your uncomfortable with it...heres a description: ERA+ - the ratio of the league's ERA (adjusted to the pitcher's ballpark) to that of the pitcher. > 100 is above average and < 100 is below average. lgERA / ERA (lg =league) Basically a score of 100 is a league average at the position. The number represents a percentage, so if someone has a score 110 they are 10% better then the league average...if they score 100 they are league average. The score is adjsuted for league (difference of facing a pitcher or a DH) and park (PPS = pitchers park..MM Park = hitters park) I'm going to do a brief statistical analysis on the 2 staffs from LAST year: Cubs Staff Prior: ERA+ 175 Wood: 133 Zambrano: 136 Clement: 103 Estes: 74 =621 Marlins Staff: Redman: 112 Beckett: 133 Penny: 98 Willis: 122 Pavano: 94 =559 Farther apart then I thought, but still not a huge gap. Removing Estes will give the Cubs a big boost in 2004, but the Marlins will be getting back Burnett who would have narrowed that gap considerably if not injured. Who knows what he will do in 2004? Cubs win.
December 12, 200322 yr I find it odd that many of you are making season-long arguments, but fail to acknowledge the Marlins' starting pitching depth.
December 12, 200322 yr I find it odd that many of you are making season-long arguments, but fail to acknowledge the Marlins' starting pitching depth. Only 5 people to a rotation, and there's nothing definite about Burnett's early return.
December 12, 200322 yr Author Ater the WS, Beckett is the preseason favorite for NL Cy Young. No one educated about baseball would make that assesment. In fact, you'll see that Prior will end up being most peoples front runner. He proved it all season. Beckett didn't. End of discussion.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.