December 9, 200322 yr Despite the questionable grammar and spelling of Odom's post, I found it to be the closest in this forum resembling logical thought. Way to go.
December 9, 200322 yr Don't forget the mommy factor. Vlad's mother apparently will have a big say in where he goes. That will go in our favor. Things on our favor (intangibles) - Good young team, have the chance to compete and go for a ring - Closest spot in the US to home country - Mama wants him to play close to home - Miami = Latin America - Can get by without speaking English on the City of Miami - Knows and feel confortable with the Loria family - Was discovered/signed and given the opportunity by Fred Ferreira (who happens to work for the marlins) Do I'm missing anything? His mother? Latin Miami? Sorry, but the MLBPA efforts to get the most money possible for their players runs roughshod over "intangibles". Besides, you fail to notice that a lot of Latino baseball players are members of teams outside of Florida, and many appear to actually be happy. Also, Guerrero could always choose to live in Miami in the off-season. During the season, when they're traveling everywhere, does it really matter where you live?
December 9, 200322 yr Author Also, Guerrero could always choose to live in Miami in the off-season. During the season, when they're traveling everywhere, does it really matter where you live? correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't half of the games in any given season played at home? also correct me if i'm wrong, but don't baseball players spend more time during the season in their home team's city than on the road? having to wait an entire baseball season before you can be in a city where you can actually communicate with people isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. that being said, i agree with you rippy, it's not likely to happen.
December 9, 200322 yr Don't forget the mommy factor. Vlad's mother apparently will have a big say in where he goes. That will go in our favor. Things on our favor (intangibles) - Good young team, have the chance to compete and go for a ring - Closest spot in the US to home country - Mama wants him to play close to home - Miami = Latin America - Can get by without speaking English on the City of Miami - Knows and feel confortable with the Loria family - Was discovered/signed and given the opportunity by Fred Ferreira (who happens to work for the marlins) Do I'm missing anything? His mother? Latin Miami? Sorry, but the MLBPA efforts to get the most money possible for their players runs roughshod over "intangibles". Besides, you fail to notice that a lot of Latino baseball players are members of teams outside of Florida, and many appear to actually be happy. Also, Guerrero could always choose to live in Miami in the off-season. During the season, when they're traveling everywhere, does it really matter where you live? Yes, Intagibles do matter for players like Vladimir Guerrero. Just ask Tony Gwynn! screw the MLBPA c/o ESPN and Juanky By Tony Gwynn Special to ESPN Insider The baseball offseason 'tis the season for huge free-agent contracts ... or not. Some players want to get top dollar, regardless of where they play. I wasn't one of them, preferring the values of hometown loyalty -- which means that the Major League Baseball Players Association wasn't thrilled with me. I'm not exactly sure how much the players union tries to influence its members today. But I can tell you what happened to me nearly 20 years ago. Balking at a strong suggestion When you sign a contract with a major-league team, it's sent to Major League Baseball for approval. It's also sent to the players' union. Union officials will look at the deal, and if they don't think you're in the right financial neighborhood, they'll let you know about it. The union has no veto power whatsoever, but if union officials believe your salary is below market value, they'll strongly suggest that you push for more. My first full year with the San Diego Padres was 1984. After winning the batting title, going to the World Series and finishing third in the MVP voting, Padres GM Jack McKeon offered me a six-year deal worth $4.6 million (which was below market value). I didn't talk to lots of people about it, but from my viewpoint, it was a good deal for me. Plus, I grew up in California and went to college at San Diego State. I had an agent at the time, but it was basically my call, so I told Jack, "Hey, I'll sign it." Gene Orza, the No. 2 official in the players union, called me at home -- as I recall, it was a Friday afternoon -- to chew me out for taking less money than I was worth. But I said, "Look, I'm married with a young son, and I want to buy a house and take care of my family. So in my mind this is a good deal." Big picture for union vs. best situation for me The money was guaranteed whether I played or not, so I was set for the next six years even if I got hurt. And since success wasn't guaranteed, I felt I should take the money. Even if my numbers sucked after that, I would still be paid $4.6 million. I always wanted to be the best I could be, but I figured, "In case I suck, they still have to pay me." Of course, Orza gave me the standard Players Association line: "I can't just worry about you, I have to worry about all 800 major-league players." He also pointed out that the contract skipped right over my first chance at free agency. I knew that, and I told him (in so many words), "Forget you, I'm signing the contract." We went at it for a while. But I laugh about it now, because looking back I have no regrets. It was a good deal because I was able to buy my first house and provide for my family. And from then on I never spoke with anyone from the union again when it came to contract matters. I did what I thought was in my best interest rather than what was in the best interest of players in my class (as Orza put it). San Diego discount Don't get the wrong impression, because that's the union's job. Still, people are incredulous when I tell this story -- I must have told it a hundred times -- because they just can't believe the union should be in a position to tell a player what he should or shouldn't do. But the union is just crunching numbers and doing its job. I understand that the union wants to make sure players are getting paid what the market will bear. But at the time, I wanted to take care of my family -- so I was more interested in guaranteed money than in getting as much as I possibly could. From the union's perspective, players are grouped in classes based on years of service, stats and prior salary. The guys in my class included Brett Butler, Willie McGee, Tim Raines and other contact hitters who didn't hit lots of home runs. My deal made it tough for them to get what they were asking for, but two years later all those guys were making more than me (Raines won a batting title in '86 and McGee went to several World Series). Hence the phrase, "San Diego discount" -- that was me. But for me, it boiled down to being comfortable. Yes, you want to make as much money as possible, but at the same time you should sign the deal if you think it's fair and best for you. My first guaranteed deal took me from 1985-90, and I ended up going through four more negotiations in my 20-year career with the Padres. I only got to true free agency once in my career -- the year before I retired -- because I knew I would have to go through this hassle again if I filed. With my numbers and track record, I could sign a year ahead of free agency and save the trouble. By the way, my highest single-season base salary came in 2000, my next-to-last year: $6.3 million. Tony Gwynn, a career .338 hitter with the Padres, is the head baseball coach at San Diego State and an ESPN baseball analyst.
December 9, 200322 yr Vlad and his momma are close with Loria. Stranger things have happened, dont discount things so easily.
December 9, 200322 yr 1. That was 19 years ago. 2. Give me documentation that Guerrero is thinking like Gwynn. 3. Give me documentation that Guerrero feels the same way about the Marlins that Gwynn did about San Diego.
December 9, 200322 yr 1. That was 19 years ago. 2. Give me documentation that Guerrero is thinking like Gwynn. 3. Give me documentation that Guerrero feels the same way about the Marlins that Gwynn did about San Diego. Give me documentation that he won't be on a Marlins uniform
December 9, 200322 yr Author this situation bears no similarity to gwynn's and i'm disappointed he mentioned that since it hurts his argument. but i do think freshfish's points about vlad's mother, the latin america connection, the loria/beinfest connection, the spanish thing, etc. are really good ones. you can add the fact that FL has no state income tax if you'd like. put it this way. if vlad were to accept a discount to play for a particular team, i have no problem believing that the marlins are the team he'd most likely do it for.
December 9, 200322 yr 1. That was 19 years ago. 2. Give me documentation that Guerrero is thinking like Gwynn. 3. Give me documentation that Guerrero feels the same way about the Marlins that Gwynn did about San Diego. Give me documentation that he won't be on a Marlins uniform Oh, you're too much. I think that with all the "buzz" about Vladdy and his love for Miami, it had to come from somewhere other than your wet dream. Prove it. I don't want to be Scrooge, but contrary to what Ramp (I think) said, you guys aren't saying "oh boy won't it be the shizznit if Vlad became a Marlin", you're saying "He will be a Marlin and here's why I know". I'm just questioning the evidence. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and hopes, but not their own set of facts. Me, I want Andy Pettitte and Javy Lopez in Cubs' uniforms. Ain't gonna happen.
December 9, 200322 yr 1. That was 19 years ago. 2. Give me documentation that Guerrero is thinking like Gwynn. 3. Give me documentation that Guerrero feels the same way about the Marlins that Gwynn did about San Diego. Give me documentation that he won't be on a Marlins uniform Oh, you're too much. I think that with all the "buzz" about Vladdy and his love for Miami, it had to come from somewhere other than your wet dream. Prove it. I don't want to be Scrooge, but contrary to what Ramp (I think) said, you guys aren't saying "oh boy won't it be the shizznit if Vlad became a Marlin", you're saying "He will be a Marlin and here's why I know". I'm just questioning the evidence. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and hopes, but not their own set of facts. Me, I want Andy Pettitte and Javy Lopez in Cubs' uniforms. Ain't gonna happen. Where did I say I was 100% sure of this happening?
December 9, 200322 yr Didnt Vlad Say Something about Wanting to play for Loria last season when the Expos and Marlin Trade talks were happening and they involved Vlad.
December 9, 200322 yr buying extreme power hitters in a pitchers park is never the way to go. How bout extreme power hitters that always do well in PPS and hit for average, and have a cannon arm like Clemente?
December 9, 200322 yr I heard somewhere recently that the reason we signed Pudge last offseason is because a deal for Vlad fell through. Edcanes, any confirmation on this?
December 9, 200322 yr If we get Vlad there is no doubt in my mind we have another playoff run (not to metion upseting Atlanta in our division which is what i have been waiting for *starts to drool*)
December 9, 200322 yr Javy Lopez would be a great addition. He had the same numbers as Pudge last year (offensively). Just his defense isnt to good. He is very cheap for a catcher. If we cant get Vlad, Javy will sute be a great guy to get.
December 9, 200322 yr Javy Lopez would be a great addition. He had the same numbers as Pudge last year (offensively). Just his defense isnt to good. He is very cheap for a catcher. If we cant get Vlad, Javy will sute be a great guy to get. Javy had BETTER stats offensivly than Pudge AJ.... :mischief
December 9, 200322 yr Javy Lopez would be a great addition. He had the same numbers as Pudge last year (offensively). Just his defense isnt to good. He is very cheap for a catcher. If we cant get Vlad, Javy will sute be a great guy to get. Javy had BETTER stats offensivly than Pudge AJ.... :mischief I know, i just dont want Pudge to feel Bad.
December 9, 200322 yr If we get Vlad there is no doubt in my mind we have another playoff run (not to metion upseting Atlanta in our division which is what i have been waiting for *starts to drool*) Upsetting the Phillies will be the problem. Not so much the Braves.
December 9, 200322 yr put it this way. if vlad were to accept a discount to play for a particular team, i have no problem believing that the marlins are the team he'd most likely do it for. I think you're right about that one. Also, with the Angels signing Colon it at least takes one team out of the running (for the time being) because now they're waiting to see what happens with ARod/Manny/Nomar. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one, but I'm not getting my hopes up...
December 9, 200322 yr Only teams i see Going for Pudge are the O's and Marlins... The marlins already lost him?!?
December 9, 200322 yr Okay i guess this confirms the fact that the marlins are interested in Javy Lopez and Vlad because it has been announced on ESPN that the MARLINS are in fact interested.
December 9, 200322 yr it is much more realistic to think javy is coming to play for us if vlad wants to play for us hes going to have to sacrifice at least 2 or 3 million dollars
December 10, 200322 yr you gotta trust the Miami Herald Articles. There are right MOST of the time. I just cant wait untill the Winter Meetings. Thats were all the fun begins!
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