31 minutes ago, TheMarlinsProject said:

I don't understand your point. We have six rookies in the lineup and everybody has expectations that we are going to make a world series run. The bullpen is a patchwork of DFAs yet everyone is surprised when they regress to the mean.

We are far exceeding expectations, the minor leagues are populated with legit prospects including those that have made the jump to the minors, yet everyone is blaming either McCullough or Sherman when we have actually laid a blueprint for sustainable success. Some of the comments are absolutely ridiculous when we have far surpassed any expectations and actually have a solid plan going forward.

MF Bruce Sherman all you want going forward, but please see the forest for the trees. We are in a position to actually succeed going forward and there was always going to be bumps in the road. This season has been and will be a rousing success and the hope for the future is actually a realistic goal that should make the fan base giddy. Instead naysayers are being frankly quite ignorant in their expectations.

who is surprised?

There's a difference between "starting to get excited due to how they were playing and being disappointed with them falling back" and being "surprised".

Nobody expected them to do well this season, so obviously people will get excited when they seemingly have a chance to actually do something this year. That excitement naturally becomes disappointment when they fall back to earth after a great stretch. But I'm sure most figured the good play would end at some point. That's completely different than being "surprised."

I'm just disappointed that they tripped and fell on their faces after the deadline, because instead of sticking to the plan and trading around the edges (FA guys, sell high on bullpen arms, etc) building further for next year, Bendix held the course and kept most of them.

Edited August 15, 20251 yr by rmc523

22 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I'm just disappointed that they tripped and fell on their faces after the deadline, because instead of sticking to the plan and trading around the edges (FA guys, sell high on bullpen arms, etc) building further for next year, Bendix held the course and kept most of them.

yeah it sucks it happened AFTER the deadline - I know, "Bendix was willing to sell if the offers were right but they werent so he held" will be run out there but part of me also believes he was being extra heavy on the demands because of their position. oh well, can't be proven either way but it was very suspect overall that none of the bigger names were moved.

and yeah i agree that there's a difference between being excited and now disappointed versus just being surprised as their current results. many of us have been fans since their inception and we're ride or die no matter what.

It still doesn't really matter what the current "plan" is either - it was fun to see them do well for a couple months and it sucks they fell flat on their faces to (yet again) the Braves. Nobody is surprised they're doing poorly again either. It also doesn't change the fact that I do not trust Bruce to do right by this franchise when the time comes to add some even moderate pieces or retain the ones that should be retained. I don't blame Clayton for any of this as you can't sit there and say he had zero to do with two hot months and is only at fault for the losses. I know there are some on here that blame him as that's always the de facto excuse any time a manager does/doesn't do something in hindsight.

Personally, I'm just glad i haven't spent a penny on anything Marlins merchandise related in a few years now and didn't spend the money to stream their games this year (and also haven't watched a single game regardless even when they were playing locally). Bruce isn't getting a fucking cent from me until he actually stops being a pile of dogshit. He doesn't give a damn about the fans so i won't waste my time getting deeply invested like I have in years past only to be let down over and over and over by an owner who is cheap af and just uses the franchise as his personal ATM machine.

56 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

who is surprised?

There's a difference between "starting to get excited due to how they were playing and being disappointed with them falling back" and being "surprised".

Nobody expected them to do well this season, so obviously people will get excited when they seemingly have a chance to actually do something this year. That excitement naturally becomes disappointment when they fall back to earth after a great stretch. But I'm sure most figured the good play would end at some point. That's completely different than being "surprised."

I'm just disappointed that they tripped and fell on their faces after the deadline, because instead of sticking to the plan and trading around the edges (FA guys, sell high on bullpen arms, etc) building further for next year, Bendix held the course and kept most of them.

Exactly. We’re fans and this is what fans of every franchise do even the forking dodgers 😆. If anything, everyone is caring about the team. It’s good that fish fans are invested and also that they’re melting down over Clayton’s incredibly inept bullpen management and half brained lineups. This is progress and a huge shift when they were swept by the Rockies

Edited August 15, 20251 yr by pollythewog

47 minutes ago, hovertical said:

yeah it sucks it happened AFTER the deadline - I know, "Bendix was willing to sell if the offers were right but they werent so he held" will be run out there but part of me also believes he was being extra heavy on the demands because of their position. oh well, can't be proven either way but it was very suspect overall that none of the bigger names were moved.

and yeah i agree that there's a difference between being excited and now disappointed versus just being surprised as their current results. many of us have been fans since their inception and we're ride or die no matter what.

It still doesn't really matter what the current "plan" is either - it was fun to see them do well for a couple months and it sucks they fell flat on their faces to (yet again) the Braves. Nobody is surprised they're doing poorly again either. It also doesn't change the fact that I do not trust Bruce to do right by this franchise when the time comes to add some even moderate pieces or retain the ones that should be retained. I don't blame Clayton for any of this as you can't sit there and say he had zero to do with two hot months and is only at fault for the losses. I know there are some on here that blame him as that's always the de facto excuse any time a manager does/doesn't do something in hindsight.

Personally, I'm just glad i haven't spent a penny on anything Marlins merchandise related in a few years now and didn't spend the money to stream their games this year (and also haven't watched a single game regardless even when they were playing locally). Bruce isn't getting a fucking cent from me until he actually stops being a pile of dogshit. He doesn't give a damn about the fans so i won't waste my time getting deeply invested like I have in years past only to be let down over and over and over by an owner who is cheap af and just uses the franchise as his personal ATM machine.

I'd also argue there were players that you can justify holding onto if you don't get "your" deal (namely Sandy - hoping for a full rebound, or Cabrera - either believe the progress is real, or just getting lowball offers), but I think lower tier guys like pending FA (Cal) or bullpen arms to sell high on would've absolutely been gone for whatever we could've gotten had we not been on the hot streak, especially the former, as you're getting nothing for them at the end of the year.

Agreed that I don't trust Bruce to do what'll need to be done to push us over the edge. He's had 2 opportunities already and done nothing. Even if you give a pass for the 2020 year, they blew it up after 2023......why should I believe things will change the next time?

Edited August 15, 20251 yr by rmc523

21 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I'd also argue there were players that you can justify holding onto if you don't get "your" deal (namely Sandy - hoping for a full rebound, or Cabrera - either believe the progress is real, or just getting lowball offers), but I think lower tier guys like pending FA (Cal) or bullpen arms to sell high on would've absolutely been gone for whatever we could've gotten had we not been on the hot streak, especially the former, as you're getting nothing for them at the end of the year.

Agreed that I don't trust Bruce to do what'll need to be done to push us over the edge. He's had 2 opportunities already and done nothing. Even if you give a pass for the 2020 year, they blew it up after 2023......why should I believe things will change the next time?

Cal holds no value which is why he wasn’t traded. Similarly, benders peripherals were terrible and doubt he held any value. The other RPs who are good are small sample size guys. I’m guessing Sandy’s value also limited and if they traded him perhaps commissioner office would say something as it’s put their payroll at basically 26 minimum salary contracts after the Jesus trade.

I think daddy saying saying they want to give team a chance this year was just BS. If he has gotten anything he considered valuable, you know he’d pull the trigger.

3 minutes ago, pollythewog said:

Cal holds no value which is why he wasn’t traded. Similarly, benders peripherals were terrible and doubt he held any value. The other RPs who are good are small sample size guys. I’m guessing Sandy’s value also limited and if they traded him perhaps commissioner office would say something as it’s put their payroll at basically 26 minimum salary contracts after the Jesus trade.

I think daddy saying saying they want to give team a chance this year was just BS. If he has gotten anything he considered valuable, you know he’d pull the trigger.

We'll never know for sure.

For all we know Bruce was telling him "it's working, keep everyone!!"

4 hours ago, TheMarlinsProject said:

I don't understand your point. We have six rookies in the lineup and everybody has expectations that we are going to make a world series run. The bullpen is a patchwork of DFAs yet everyone is surprised when they regress to the mean.

We are far exceeding expectations, the minor leagues are populated with legit prospects including those that have made the jump to the minors, yet everyone is blaming either McCullough or Sherman when we have actually laid a blueprint for sustainable success. Some of the comments are absolutely ridiculous when we have far surpassed any expectations and actually have a solid plan going forward.

MF Bruce Sherman all you want going forward, but please see the forest for the trees. We are in a position to actually succeed going forward and there was always going to be bumps in the road. This season has been and will be a rousing success and the hope for the future is actually a realistic goal that should make the fan base giddy. Instead naysayers are being frankly quite ignorant in their expectations.

You, I like.

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

yeah it sucks it happened AFTER the deadline - I know, "Bendix was willing to sell if the offers were right but they werent so he held" will be run out there but part of me also believes he was being extra heavy on the demands because of their position. oh well, can't be proven either way but it was very suspect overall that none of the bigger names were moved.

I think Bendix was going to stick to that plan even if we were 20 games under, honestly. Seems to be his MO. And I like it!

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Agreed that I don't trust Bruce to do what'll need to be done to push us over the edge. He's had 2 opportunities already and done nothing. Even if you give a pass for the 2020 year, they blew it up after 2023......why should I believe things will change the next time?

2023 was lucky, let's be forrealsies here. Then losing Sandy and Eury and basically an entire rotation over the offseason, 2024 was never going to be a good year. Pete was right.

3 minutes ago, Michael said:

2023 was lucky, let's be forrealsies here. Then losing Sandy and Eury and basically an entire rotation over the offseason, 2024 was never going to be a good year. Pete was right.

They're still going to be a fringy playoff team at BEST that will require a fair amount of luck in any given year with Bruce as owner though. I really hope a salary floor will be implemented and force some of the shitty owners into selling - or showing their hands finally and be forced to actually pay for the privilege of owning a pro sports franchise (and having no problem doing so because they've been making plenty of money as it is from their teams)

11 minutes ago, hovertical said:

They're still going to be a fringy playoff team at BEST that will require a fair amount of luck in any given year with Bruce as owner though. I really hope a salary floor will be implemented and force some of the shitty owners into selling - or showing their hands finally and be forced to actually pay for the privilege of owning a pro sports franchise (and having no problem doing so because they've been making plenty of money as it is from their teams)

Problem is, of course, floor won't come unless a cap is included, and the players won't want a cap unless a bunch of other demands are met, and that's likely not going to happen, and we're very likely getting another lockout in 2027.

If I'm with the player's association, I demand a few things if a salary cap is hard-set.

1. Salary cap has to be high, like $325M-$350M.

2. Salary floor - at least $125M-$150M, has to be a high floor.

   1. This can be achieved easier by raising minimum salaries, too.

3. Free agency after 5 years, not 6.

   1. Arbitration starts in year 3 no matter what, no "super two" status

   2. The service time starts at debut and does not get stopped if they get sent back down.

As I say ... lockout. lol

32 minutes ago, Michael said:

You, I like.

I think Bendix was going to stick to that plan even if we were 20 games under, honestly. Seems to be his MO. And I like it!

2023 was lucky, let's be forrealsies here. Then losing Sandy and Eury and basically an entire rotation over the offseason, 2024 was never going to be a good year. Pete was right.

Sure it may have been lucky and not within the projected timeline.....but the point is that we've seen zero effort on Bruce's part to even try to accelerate the timeline or strike when the iron is hot by adding helpful pieces when they're available.

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Sure it may have been lucky and not within the projected timeline.....but the point is that we've seen zero effort on Bruce's part to even try to accelerate the timeline or strike when the iron is hot by adding helpful pieces when they're available.

It really would have helped if Kim was any good at building the farm and if Denbo and co had left earlier so player development could actually improve.

The iron may have been hot at that time but it was put in a microwave and cooled off quickly.

Who, within a reasonable price, has been available? We didn't have a farm we could trade from, thanks to Kim sitting pat and doing nothing except trading Bass and Pop in 2022. "I just waited for people to call me" still pisses me off.

The Burger, Bell, and Weathers trades were nice because we hardly gave up anything, although Watson might turn into something yet. But after that ... we had basically no farm at all. So we couldn't trade for any of those helpful pieces. We could have kept Soler, sure ... but since leaving the Marlins: .232/.322/.422 [dasalotta 2's!], and he's hit less homers in his last 224 games than he did the one year in 2023.

Then, once again, the entire rotation got torn to shreds in '24. Pete has made the right moves since taking over to restock the farm. You can get on him [not even Bruce here] for not shipping off some bullpen guys and rentals (Cal 'n' such), but the timeline is ... technically already accelerated, if you ask me.

I said 90 losses before the season and that'd be a big improvement. From this point forward, the team has to go just 14-27 to get there. We're in the roughest stretch of the season schedule-wise, so we're going to take our lumps right now. Team will probably go closer to 18-23 the rest of the way, I would think.