the author of the quote is 100% incorrect. he has no medical training in the subject. it's not even debatable; it's not even a possibility to say steroids MIGHT cause bone to "grow". the manner in which sex hormones affect bone is so vastly different than the manner in which growth hormone and IGF-1 affect bone growth. their mechanisms of action on bone are very, very different.

 

anabolic steroids affect the integrity and mineralization inside the bone, but that is the extent to what they can do to bones in adults. the author of the quote is mistaken.

 

acromegaly is often observed in steroid users because steroid users very often use HGH at the same time in their cycles. that could explain how someone could be confused about the causative agent.

 

anabolic steroids do not cause bone to grow, and they have zero effect on bone growth after maturity. in young people, however, they can stunt growth, but that is the extent to their epiphyseal damage.

 

 

 

here's a few quotes from ken caminiti on the subject:

 

"I know guys who use and don't admit it because they think it means they don't work hard. And I know plenty of guys now are mixing steroids with human growth hormone. Those guys are pretty obvious."

 

If steroids are the cement of body construction, then human growth hormone is the rebar, taken in an attempt to strengthen joints so they can hold the added muscle mass produced by steroids. Human growth hormone can be detected only in specific blood tests, not the standard urine test used for other performance-enhancing drugs. It is prescribed to treat dwarfism in children, but it can also change a mature person's body structure and facial characteristics. Players joke about the swollen heads, protruding brows and lantern jaws of hGH users. "And they talk like this; Caminiti says, pushing his tongue to the front of his mouth and stammering, "because the size of their head changes." One major league executive knows of a star player whose hat size has grown two sizes in his late 30s.

 

Says Chad Curtis, an outfielder who retired last year after 10 seasons with six clubs, including three (1997 to '99) with the Yankees, "When I was in New York, a player there told me that hGH was the next big thing, that that's the road the game's heading down next. Now you see guys whose facial features, jawbones and cheekbones change after they're 30. Do they think that happens naturally? You go, `What happened to that guy?' Then you'll hear him say he worked out over the winter and put on 15 pounds of muscle. I'm sorry, working out is not going to change your facial features."

 

"Here's one easy way to tell," says a veteran American League infielder who asked not to be identified. He grabbed a batting helmet and put it on the top of his head without pushing it down for the proper fit. "They can't get their helmet to go all the way down. It sits up on their heads. You see it all the time. You see this new culture of young players coming in, caught up in the vanity of getting big. They're bloated and ripped, and they shave their chests [to accentuate their physiques]. It's gotten to the point where more guys use [steroids or hGH] than don't used.

http://faculty.oxy.edu/whitney/classes/xac...002_0603_si.htm

 

 

 

and here's a thorough list of the side effects of anabolic steroids with very good discussion:

 

http://www.anabolics.com/side_effects.htm

 

it also states:

Acromegaly or Giantism is a disease that is marked by enlarged bones and bodily organs. Most notably hands and the lower jaw line are affected. This is not exactly a side effect of Anabolic Steroids, but it is related to another widely abused steroid-like drug, Growth Hormone (GH). Acromegaly is irreversible and can be severely disfiguring to a persons? face. Other health risks related to Acromegaly are enlarged organs which is a life threatening side effect.

 

 

here's another list of side effects:

 

http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html

 

 

i assure you that the physical trait you are measuring in those photographs (widening of bones) is a consequence of HGH and is in no way influenced by sex hormones. i don't like to speak in absolutes (well, actually, i do), but i can tell you with no uncertainty that anabolic steroids have zero effect on bone growth in adults. i can tell you that your previous statements about the effects of HGH vs. the effects of anabolic steroids are probably just the result of confusing accounts.

 

here's a VERY good read (check out the other sections, if you want, too) from a very credible source that should help explain how the stuff works (from howstuffworks, lol):

 

http://health.howstuffworks.com/athletic-drug-test2.htm

thus ends out debate.

 

Thank you for coming out and please....drive safely

okay, if that settles it, then all the pictures prove is HGH use, with high suspicion(sp) of steroid use.

 

Still, Sammy sosa staying so healthy without HGH leads me to believe he isn't abusing anything.

 

Thanks for clearing up the caminiti issue. The more knowledge on the subject the better. I will make the necessary changes...eventually.

Hulk Hogan's head is bigger during the first two Mania's (his supposed pre-steroid stage). At Mania' three his body's smaller and more cut. His muscles are bigger, but not his cheeks.

 

I'd post pictures I just don't want to have to waste my time by doing research for a message board topic (and I looked for a total of five minutes for an old school Hogan pic pre-Mania and gave up after the first three pages on google) using circumstantial pictures.

 

I do applaud anyone debunking these steroid myths in here, though.

you two seriously need to kiss and make up before you kill half the threads on this board.

Hulk Hogan's head is bigger during the first two Mania's (his supposed pre-steroid stage). At Mania' three his body's smaller and more cut. His muscles are bigger, but not his cheeks.

 

I'd post pictures I just don't want to have to waste my time by doing research for a message board topic (and I looked for a total of five minutes for an old school Hogan pic pre-Mania and gave up after the first three pages on google) using circumstantial pictures.

 

I do applaud anyone debunking these steroid myths in here, though.

where's the evidence oh smart one?

guys, please don't kill another thread. i like the witch hunt.

I'll update either tonight or tuesday, depending upon how much work I get done. I'll look at Roger Clemens, Javy Lopez, Manny Ramirez, and anyone else who comes to mind.

 

 

Nevertheless, why do some people disagree whether or not steroids causes growth effects like HGH? Can anyone be sure 100%?

Nevertheless, why do some people disagree whether or not steroids causes growth effects like HGH?? Can anyone be sure 100%?

100% sure.

 

there has been so much research on this that it's impossible. trust me, acromegaly is a HUGE side effect that doesn't just go unnoticed.

 

bone can't just decide to "grow" in adults without the proper growth factor.

why do some people disagree? Is it possible that increased testosterone triggers release of natural HGH? It triggers increases in other hormones.

why do some people disagree?? Is it possible that increased testosterone triggers release of natural HGH?? It triggers increases in other hormones.

must you argue everything?

 

growth hormone is produced in the anterior pituitary gland by a specific kind of tissue.

 

you get acromegaly when you have an ENORMOUS amount of HGH/IGF1 running through your circulation. a small increase won't give you acromegaly.

 

the only way your body hypersecretes growth hormone to such an extent is if you have excess glandular tissue to produce it. in other words, the only natural way to get acromegaly is if you have a glandular tumor.

 

 

and about this:

Is it possible that increased testosterone triggers release of natural HGH?? It triggers increases in other hormones.

 

that one's easy.

 

the amount of growth hormone is the same in both males and females.

 

the amount of testosterone is about 20 times more in males than in females.

however, for the sake of argument, it might not be quanity of testosterone, but rather proportion in a male or female.

 

I suppose you are pre med, but if everything was 100% known, doctors wouldn't be disagreeing about my elbow problem.

however, for the sake of argument, it might not be quanity of testosterone, but rather proportion in a male or female.

 

I suppose you are pre med, but if everything was 100% known, doctors wouldn't be disagreeing about my elbow problem.

no.

 

that's not how hormones in the body work.

 

if a substance causes a gland to hypersecrete a hormone, you can very easily measure and appreciate the effects on a graph in the expected fashion.

 

i'm not pre-med. i'm in medical school and i've already completed preclinical endocrinology.

 

obviously everything is not 100% known about the human body, but the endogenous hormones produced by our body and the effects of these hormones have been studied ad nauseum. i can guarantee you that secretion of GH (very easy to measure) effected by a rise in testosterone (also very easy to measure) would be caught in a standard hormone profile before the clinical effects of acromegaly ever set in.

 

i am 100% unequivocally sure that we would know if there were any causative relationship between increased testosterone and increased growth hormone. we know everything there is to know about any possible relationship between those two hormones.

 

your parents must have a very hard time with you... hehe.

no.

 

that's not how hormones in the body work.

 

if a substance causes a gland to hypersecrete a hormone, you can very easily measure and appreciate the effects on a graph in the expected fashion.

 

i'm not pre-med. i'm in medical school and i've already completed preclinical endocrinology.

 

obviously everything is not 100% known about the human body, but the endogenous hormones produced by our body and the effects of these hormones have been studied ad nauseum. i can guarantee you that an elevation in GH (very easy to measure) effected by a rise in testosterone (also very easy to measure) would be caught in a standard hormone profile before the clinical effects of acromegaly ever set in.

 

i am 100% unequivocally sure that we would know if there were any causative relationship between increased testosterone and increased growth hormone. we know everything there is to know about any possible relationship between those two hormones.

 

your parents must have a very hard time with you... hehe.

okay, that's good enough for me. The site will probably be updated tuesday, I can't do any work right now because ironically I'm at work.

 

 

About my parents, my mom doesn't mind me questioning everything, my dad is pissed of from everything, so I kind of question everything, but I think you have settled it this time.

So, is there any way you can help my elbow?

So, is there any way you can help my elbow?

:lol

 

if real doctors can't, i probably can't, either. sorry.

 

what's wrong with it, btw?

UPDATE ROGER CLEMENS ABUSES HGH http://www.xanga.com/steroidwitchhunt

 

Roger Clemens abuses HGH!

 

 

Roger Clemens might be one of the most dominant pitchers in history and he has evidently done this with gross HGH abuse and probably anabolic steroid use. He admitted that he squats heaviver weights now then he did in college. His face did not grow, because of fat, look at his workout here: http://www.onlineathleticclub.com/resources/rocket.asp. According to the people who run that site, the workout is a joke and they say he should "thank his genetics" for staying in such good shape. I say thanks to banned substances.

 

It is a shame that yet another hall of famer is a cheater, but that's what one is to expect.

:burns:

does it really help pitchers to use steroids or hgh?

i guess to reduce injury and increase stamina +endurance?

i guess to reduce injury and increase stamina +endurance?

if anything, steroids increase injury

 

 

i think

i heard somewhere that it's thought that steroids increase a pitcher's accuracey, weather it's true or not is one thing, by the placeabo (sp) effect it has is probably a definite.

steroids increase velocity. HGH grows tendons and ligiments so one can avoid injury that comes with steroid use.

...and David Wells has tested positive for Peanut M&Ms.....

he openly abuses amphetamines and cortizone shots in the spine. If he's taking steroids, they're not doing their "lower body fat" side effect, that's for sure.

Edgar Martinez Clean? 2/14/04

 

 

Edgar was very hard to do, because his eyes in the best "face forward" picture available are obviously not that good. I had to my best to match up the eyes with the picture to the left and I even fiddled around with minor league pictures of Edgar Martinez to get his picture to the best possible size. From observing the closeness in the above measurements and just using plain observation, I am edging towards that Edgar probably does not abuse HGH and because his body is so fragile, I would believe he cannot gamble to use steroids either.

 

However, be your own judge. Here are some pictures of Edgar:

 

 

 

His head looks the same size, but he certainly has lost that baby face! Could he be on steroids? He does have an injur history, but he played on turf and that can certainly mess you up. Furthermore, he still very effective at an old age without the appearance of gross HGH abuse.