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interracial relationships


Guest marlins02

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Guest marlins02

true about native americans. one could make an argument for the japanese because of the internment camps but its hard to compare it to hundreds of years of black and indian history. but italians? yeah they were treated like s*** but not as bad as blacks

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This is bulls***t. It shouldn't matter what color you are. Just as long as you love each other. I was raised to be colorblind...meaning, I shouldn't see past the color of the skin. I accept everyone in everyway. I think it's good that there are interacial relationships. I'm American and my dad is Cuban. Does that have anything to do with it? I don't think so. It shouldn't matter.

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Guys, I'm not talking 1930s, 40s, or 60s.

 

I'm talking about the real early 20th century. Segregation was more of a de facto thing in NYC and EVERYONE, not just blacks, were segregated.

 

Furthermore, did anyone ever here of the chinese exclusion act? There was no african exclusion act.

 

Lastly, I am only talking about initially. New immigrants were looked down upon as scum (like blacks), had less money, and didn't speak english. This is not debatable, thus they had it initally worse than blacks. Anything concerning past world war one is irrelevant.

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Guest marlins02

and before WW1 blacks had been chained up and whipped savagely and forced to work for 100's of years. and once they were "free" they still got screwed badly. all ethnicities have been treated like s*** in this country, but NO group other than native americans have been treated equal or worse than blacks.

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give it up sorianofan.

 

 

you are exaggerrating grossly.

 

 

yes italians had it bad. but not anywhere close to as bad as blacks. new york was a place full of racial and ethnic communities. if you lived in your 'area' you were able to get some power in some ways. outside of it you were larged up a creek in many instances.

 

again how is this worse than the black expereince?

 

 

the chinese exclusion act prevented chinese from even coming to the States so again thats comparing apples to oranges.

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and before WW1 blacks had been chained up and whipped savagely and forced to work for 100's of years. and once they were "free" they still got screwed badly. all ethnicities have been treated like s*** in this country, but NO group other than native americans have been treated equal or worse than blacks.

guys, I'm not talking about slavery or past WW1. I'm talking about the inital immigration of new immigrants.

 

I'm not exaggerating grossly, immigrants INITALLY HAD IT WORSE. They were just as hated if not more so, made less, money, lived in crappier places, and didn't speak english.

 

If that's not worse off, you tell me what is.

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Guest marlins02

you say immigrants had it worse initially. the fact that blacks were not willing immigrants to this country totally wipes out your argument. they also didnt speak english, and they made zip.

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Guest Juanky

and before WW1 blacks had been chained up and whipped savagely and forced to work for 100's of years. and once they were "free" they still got screwed badly. all ethnicities have been treated like s*** in this country, but NO group other than native americans have been treated equal or worse than blacks.

guys, I'm not talking about slavery or past WW1. I'm talking about the inital immigration of new immigrants.

 

I'm not exaggerating grossly, immigrants INITALLY HAD IT WORSE. They were just as hated if not more so, made less, money, lived in crappier places, and didn't speak english.

 

If that's not worse off, you tell me what is. If you are going to use the initial arrival of the Italians, then use the initial arrival of everyone else as well. The blacks have it worst in that category BY FAR.

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Just because someone's skin is black, it doesn't mean they had it worse off.

 

Immigrants went to the cities, not down south. How am I changing my argument, unless there was some mass italian migration into lynching terriroty, than how could I compare those guys to southern blacks?

 

Immigrants had it worse than their black contemporaries/competitors for jobs/fellow urbanites/ whatever the hell you want to call it.

 

If someone made less money, had just as much racism, lived in worse housing, and didn't speak english, TELL ME how blacks would then have it worse than the newly arrived immigrants? That's bull s*it. Immigrants NOW have it worse than blacks and immigrants THEN had it worse, because the blacks at least had more money, better housing, and spoke english. Unless these things are some how wrong, you guys can cut out on the sarcastic smilies.

 

And if you want to debate there's nothing worse than being a sharecropper in the year 1900, I would take the racism and a miserable amount of land so I can have food in my stomach and have an established community, compared to trading my life with some guy coming off a boat not knowing where to go or what to do, where to work, and how to get dinner than night.

 

Blacks like Italians were considered genetic inferiors and in the urban setting I would say the racism was about equal or maybe worse for the people who didn't speak any english. Where I live there is racism against polish immigrants because they don't speak english, this is certainly nothing new.

 

So I reiterate:

-less money

-same or more racism

-worse if not less work

-worse housing

-no english

 

usless these things are wrong, stop being such dogmatic douche bags.

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Guest marlins02

damn dude, even when you are clearly wrong you still cant handle admitting it. NO GROUP HAD IT WORSE THAN BLACKS IN THIS COUNTRY OTHER THAN MAYBE NATIVE AMERICANS. that is all. there is nothing you can say to change any of our minds and the truth is you probably dont believe the s*** your saying but you just like saying crazy s*** to sound intelligent and you refuse to admit your wrong.

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Guest marlins02

and what i meant about no english is the fact that africans didnt know english. you kept talking about immigrants had it worse when they intially immigrated here. what about africans? they didnt voluntarily immigrate here, they got paid way less than anyone (0), they also didnt speak english and they got their names taken away, were forced to split from their families, eventually lost any connection to their home country and NO they did not speak english.

 

if your talking about initial immigration, you need to mention african americans initial immigration

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Guest marlins02

and did i forget to mention the beatings for not "working hard enough" or "not obeying" and the rape of the female "property"? and that boat ride wasnt exactly paradise either

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so first we have Italians were worse off than blacks.

 

 

Then we started to move this to around 1900.

 

Then we started talking about New York City only.

 

 

Now we are talking about initial immigration.

 

 

Talk about altering your arguement in the middle of the game.

 

 

Blacks were not better off than Italians.

 

 

Blacks were not better off than Italians in the United States in 1900.

 

Hell lets just look at the small segment of NYC.

 

Compare Italians to blacks in Harlem. That might take me a while to research.

 

If we are comaring initial immigration then lets look at initial immigration.

 

 

Do you even know anything about African American history?

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I cant believe we're arguing about who had it worse. Of course African Americans had it bad, so did Native americans (who many also had their names taken away), and what about the chinese during the industrialization of the north, or the itlaians, or irish. It isnt a competition about who had it worse. Of all those groups now the african americans get the most help from the government in form of entitlements. Doesnt mean their lives are a lot better, because in my opinion its formed a culture of dependancy and a reaffirmation of racism, in which some white people think that black people cant do things on their own. All of these groups have come a long way though, and many individuals from these groups have become very successful people. So the past can never be forgotten, but when it comes to minoriy oppression we must look towards the future and we must look at how far many people have come to be what they are now, even though theyve had to deal with racism and such.

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If someone made less money, had just as much racism, lived in worse housing, and didn't speak english, TELL ME how blacks would then have it worse than the newly arrived immigrants?? That's bull s*it.? Immigrants NOW have it worse than blacks and immigrants THEN had it worse, because the blacks at least had more money, better housing, and spoke english.? Unless these things are some how wrong, you guys can cut out on the sarcastic smilies.

your argument was clearly about discrimination and how it relates to italians.

 

lina and fish fry were talking about discrimination and unfair treatment toward immigrant groups such as italians and irish by society as a whole.

 

you started with talking about how 25 years ago any successful italian was unfairly believed to have mob connections.

 

fish fry responds telling you explicitly that the discrimination of italians and irish pales in comparison to the discrimination toward blacks.

 

you directly responded to fish fry's comment by retorting that "italians were lower than blacks" at one time, and you continue to discuss the topic of discrimination and the public's perception of italians for several posts. you not only said that italians "had it worse", but you elaborated on this point enough so any half-witted person could understand that you were dicussing discrimination and public perception of italians... so let's clarify your viewpoint here.

 

 

 

i'm not going to jump at you or anything since most people like to save face when they realize they're on the wrong end of an argument, but let me do you a favor by asking you a question:

 

in 1900, which group was discriminated against more, in general: blacks or italians?

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I said "lower" which implied racism and economic disadvantagement.

 

I did not change my argument- I said they were lower, and I never said they were lower 25 years ago- I said they still had it bad.

 

Until someone shows me that blacks had less money and worse housing than Italians at their low point, than your argument is simply wrong and you have no right to say I'm wrong. People keep saying "you're wrong", but do I see a single number? No. I don't need to present any becuase it is a fact that newly established immigrant populations have less money and crappier housing. Mixed with racsim, I find the validity of my argument rather easy to understand.

 

So put your money where your mouth is. The only good counter argument I heard deals with how blacks had it down south, but because Italians didn't live down south there is no basis for comparison, thus nullifying the argument. There were blacks and italians in the cities, so when CAN make a comparison.

 

So again, I fail to see anyone bring up a valid counter point. Does anyone want to say blacks had less money and worsing housing and less racism? Than say so.

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Guest Juanky

Until someone shows me that blacks had less money and worse housing than Italians at their low point, than your argument is simply wrong and you have no right to say I'm wrong. People keep saying "you're wrong", but do I see a single number? No. I don't need to present any becuase it is a fact that newly established immigrant populations have less money and crappier housing. Mixed with racsim, I find the validity of my argument rather easy to understand.

This is where I disagree with you. And I disagree with you in the sense that you have to present your case. You can't just make a wild case and expect everyone else to prove you wrong. No, that is not how it works. In the US, the prosecution has the burden of proof. They make the accusations and claims. You are making the accusations and claims here, you have the burden of proof. So until you provide proof to support your argument, it is null and void.

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