May 11, 200422 yr http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119529,00.html Sorry, But It's Time to Stop Apologizing Tuesday, May 11, 2004 By John Moody I'm sorry to have to tell you this: We are apologizing too much. Now that President Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and several top officers in our armed forces have apologized for the mistreatment of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib (search) prison, it seems only fair to ask ? what is the apology for? Don't misunderstand. There's a reason to regret what happened and make sure it doesn't occur again. I just fear that we, as a country and society, are saying sorry with the wrong motivation. The pictures of naked prisoners tethered to leashes, contorted into human pyramids and pinioned to their cell doors are distasteful to us as we sit in our living rooms. But what if you or I were in that prison, trying not only to guard prisoners, but extract from them information that could save a loved one's life? How heavy-handed might you become if the stakes were personal? The soldiers and guardsmen who are accused ? not yet convicted ? of abusing their captives made some questionable decisions. They will probably pay for them with their military careers, their reputations, or in some cases, time behind bars. It's important, though, not to judge all our servicemen and women by what happened in Abu Ghraib or to judge what happened there by the standards of behavior applied to civilian society. More than a year after the U.S. invasion deposed Saddam Hussein, Iraq is one of the most dangerous places on earth. Nothing increases the chance of falling victim to that violence more than wearing an American military uniform ? the same garb we profess to admire as we thank our troops for keeping us free. Should we revoke that admiration because some small fraction of our troops took license with others' dignity? It might be worthwhile to try to put ourselves in their combat boots for a moment. As of this writing, 717 American soldiers, Marines and guardsmen have died trying to secure Iraq's freedom. The cheers with which they were met along Baghdad's streets in April 2003 have been replaced, at least on the surface, with a shower of roadside bombs, improvised explosive devices and hand grenades. When confronted with violence, our troops react as they are taught. They kill some of their aggressors, wound some, and arrest others. People who fall into the latter two categories are those who are incarcerated at Abu Ghraib. Many have either killed or tried to kill the comrades, friends or barracks-mates of the troops guarding them. How gentle could you be with the killer of your best friend? Or someone who you saw cheering that crime? On March 31, a van of American civilians traveling through Fallujah (search) was set upon by a band of Iraqi thugs. They were there to help the country to its feet. In gratitude for that work, their vehicle was set on fire, they were dragged from it and hacked to pieces, and their bodies were dragged through the streets and strung from a bridge. Many TV networks, including Fox News, deemed the pictures too shocking to air. Fox also heavily censored a videotape of torture sessions carried out by Saddam's regime. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake. Without showing the charred bodies of Americans dangling in ignominy, or the lopped off-arms of justice Saddam-style, how can we judge the pictures we are now clucking over? Was one worse than the other? Where was the outrage, after Fallujah, from members of Congress and other self-appointed mullahs of morality? Do we expect American soldiers to be morally superior to the people who are trying to kill them, and at the same time win a war in which there are no rules of conduct for one side? Does that somehow smack of ... racism? Americans are living in a split-screen world of war and wealth. Since 9/11, we have conducted our lives with the nervous knowledge that we can be reached, injured and killed by fanatics who do not know us but wish us dead. For some months now, the reality of terrorism has been seen in other places: Bali, Madrid and day after day after day, Iraq. Meanwhile, millions tut-tut over the exposed breast of an entertainer on the 50-yard line, willing themselves to ignore the amputated limbs and splattered brain matter of men and women in our nation's service. Others fret as gasoline prices near 50 percent of what they are in Europe. Fans cry real tears because a sitcom is ending. We shriek with indignation that Iraqi suspects are humiliated, but forget the specter of Fallujah. We can't have it both ways, I'm sorry to say. See? I'm getting the hang of this apology thing. It's a pity, isn't it?
May 11, 200422 yr Obviously this is the opinion of one columnist, not neccesarily that of the entire news organization, you should know that Sham.
May 11, 200422 yr ya.... the Geneva conventions and resolutions.... the hell with those as well as everythign else.
May 12, 200422 yr Apologies mean nothing. Let's see some action...and where is the blame for Britain? they covered it up to. And the Iraqi lopping of heads thing is a really classy move.
May 12, 200422 yr Apologies mean nothing. Let's see some action...and where is the blame for Britain? they covered it up to. And the Iraqi lopping of heads thing is a really classy move. what do you expect them to do...... turn the other cheek and say its ok. remember we invaded THEIR country.
May 12, 200422 yr Apologies mean nothing. Let's see some action...and where is the blame for Britain? they covered it up to. And the Iraqi lopping of heads thing is a really classy move. what do you expect them to do...... turn the other cheek and say its ok. remember we invaded THEIR country. exactly what the hell is still "classy" about this war anyway i mean yeah it's gruesome but i'm not surprised
May 12, 200422 yr Apologies mean nothing.? Let's see some action...and where is the blame for Britain?? they covered it up to. And the Iraqi lopping of heads thing is a really classy move. what do you expect them to do...... turn the other cheek and say its ok. remember we invaded THEIR country. exactly what the hell is still "classy" about this war anyway i mean yeah it's gruesome but i'm not surprised Oh, I feel so bad for these people who have been afforded more liberties than they could ever dream of under Saddam. Poor them they had their country invaded.
May 12, 200422 yr There's no justification for just chopping off the head of some random person. Think about it, it is like those abortion nuts protesting murder by blowing up a clinic. Why are you justifying murderous stupidity?
May 12, 200422 yr The chopping head thing was a start I guess just to show that they're not gonna just let this slide But as they said, it's gonna be "severe" now
May 12, 200422 yr i'm not saying its right. its also not right what the americans and british are doing. wrong is wrong. level of wrong doing doesnt really matter in these cases. both go aganst Geneva. everyone should be punished for war crimes.
May 12, 200422 yr I concur with Texan. And what other alternative do the Iraqi's have? Really? Are they going to sue the US and put Rumsfield in jail? Right. When people have no other way to revolt this is lowness they can sink to.
May 12, 200422 yr I concur with Texan. And what other alternative do the Iraqi's have? Really? Are they going to sue the US and put Rumsfield in jail? Right. When people have no other way to revolt this is lowness they can sink to. Well, I'm not about to lob off some Arab guy's head because of 9-11.
May 12, 200422 yr I concur with Texan. And what other alternative do the Iraqi's have?? Really?? Are they going to sue the US and put Rumsfield in jail?? Right.? When people have no other way to revolt this is lowness they can sink to. Well, I'm not about to lob off some Arab guy's head because of 9-11. Yeah, well, you're not Arab either. They're more into the Old Testament punishments than we are. You're making a societal comparison (comparing the US to Iraq). I'm making a political one in saying the Iraqi's have no rights in this situation. Plus, that's not a fair comparison. It's not like by running two planes into the twin towers that the Arabs "conquered" America and forced us to live under their regime. Bet you woulda' been pretty ticked off if that happened. You'd have no say in what was going on and no outlet for the frustration you feel. Then someone goes and beats up and sodomizes your people? However can you react? With protest? Would you Arab conquerer's allow you to, even? So, you go to an Arab and lop his head off. I think that's a more valid comparison.
May 12, 200422 yr Yeah, well, you're not Arab either. They're more into the Old Testament punishments than we are. You're making a societal comparison (comparing the US to Iraq). I'm making a political one in saying the Iraqi's have no rights in this situation. Plus, that's not a fair comparison. It's not like by running two planes into the twin towers that the Arabs "conquered" America and forced us to live under their regime. Bet you woulda' been pretty ticked off if that happened. You'd have no say in what was going on and no outlet for the frustration you feel. Then someone goes and beats up and sodomizes your people? However can you react? With protest? Would you Arab conquerer's allow you to, even? So, you go to an Arab and lop his head off. I think that's a more valid comparison. wow, i think for the first time i agree with you 100%
May 12, 200422 yr um..not all Iraqis voted to cut off the guys head...these guys would have done this regardless. Kind of like how not all Americans shot immigrants after 9/11.
May 12, 200422 yr Author that was a great analogy baw. Something I have been trying to put into words for awhile now, but have struggled to. People like fish fillet talk about "perspective"...theres some perspective for you.
May 12, 200422 yr We screwed up here big with the prisioners. I hope we see some action, and some generals heads roll. With that said, this is not going to be the first and last time this happens on a war. Enough of apologies, we got a lot of Americans killed on 9-11 and this people that are asking for apologies were dancing with joy in the streets while we were trying to rescue our own in ground 0. And I can't believe some of you are justifying the chopping of the head. They didn't do it because we abused their prisioners. You don't get it after 3 years do you? This terrorist will keep killing no matter what, no matter what we do! good or bad.
May 12, 200422 yr I concur with Texan. And what other alternative do the Iraqi's have?? Really?? Are they going to sue the US and put Rumsfield in jail?? Right.? When people have no other way to revolt this is lowness they can sink to. Well, I'm not about to lob off some Arab guy's head because of 9-11. Yeah, well, you're not Arab either. They're more into the Old Testament punishments than we are. You're making a societal comparison (comparing the US to Iraq). I'm making a political one in saying the Iraqi's have no rights in this situation. Plus, that's not a fair comparison. It's not like by running two planes into the twin towers that the Arabs "conquered" America and forced us to live under their regime. Bet you woulda' been pretty ticked off if that happened. You'd have no say in what was going on and no outlet for the frustration you feel. Then someone goes and beats up and sodomizes your people? However can you react? With protest? Would you Arab conquerer's allow you to, even? So, you go to an Arab and lop his head off. I think that's a more valid comparison. Understood, but I'm not saying "well, they have a more violent culture so it's okay", culturally I have been brought up that we don't chop heads off when we are mad, so my cultural bias condemns the Iraqi retort. I understand that they know they were conquered and they were pissed. Americans seem to think, "Well, we liberated them from saddam!" Well they don't care, they don't want either of us. However, look at destabilized areas like Afghanistan and ect. We and the world cannot afford a destabilized Iraq. I think, but I'm not sure, that turning this entirely to the UN is the best option. However, this still does not justify protesting abuse with more abuse.
May 12, 200422 yr freshfish, ask yourself why they are killing in the first place. I'm talking about terrorism . . . . Why are they killing? I know why, but that doesn't justify them killing every American they have the chance to get their hands around (civilian or from the military). Because our Nation has made serious mistakes with their foreign policy for generations, it doesn't mean that we just roll over after 9-11. The world as we knew it, changed after 9-11.
May 12, 200422 yr freshfish, ask yourself why they are killing in the first place. I'm talking about terrorism . . . . Why are they killing? I know why, but that doesn't justify them killing every American they have the chance to get their hands around (civilian or from the military). Because our Nation has made serious mistakes with their foreign policy for generations, it doesn't mean that we just roll over after 9-11. The world as we knew it, changed after 9-11. The Iraqi's aren't "killing every American they get their hands on." The beheading was an isolated incident by a group of reactionaries. Think of how many Ameircan prisoners that AREN'T being killed in order for there to be a trade between the US and Iraq for prisoners. We'll never go for it, but it's a nice effort.
May 12, 200422 yr people in groups like this killed 3000 people already, so as disgusting as it was, beheading a guy is not surprising. they already did it to Pearle, the journalist who was taken prisoner months ago. any group who starts invoking religious zealotry while slaughtering people ranks at the bottom of the evolutionary scale as far as I'm concerned. This is not the feelings of the typical Iraqi public though (at least IMO), as much as they want the U.S. out of their country they certainly don't support any killings of this sort.
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