July 2, 200422 yr This is not optimistic, homerism. This is just a point of view. Look, lets get something straight here. Everyone wants to make a deal to make this team better. It is imminent that a deal will happen, but what, we dont know. I just want to point out something before everyone hangs themselves. This series against Atlanta was a complete nightmare. Not because the Braves are a great team or anything, no. Because of the elements. First of all, our starting pitching has been terrible of late. Yes, terrible. Except for Pavano, who has been our tourniquet, we have been hard-pressed to get a quality start from a starter. Now, this past series, the elements have had something to do with that - but that only puts more pressure and stress on an already suspect and overworked bullpen. 10 1/3 IP by our starters in the series. (5IP Penny, 4.3IP Willis, 1IP Burnett, 0IP Tejera) You could make the argument that the elements messed with Penny and they most certainly did for Burnett - who didnt have his best stuff, but looked solid. Willis helped us out but needs to go deeper into the game. Not one of those pitchers got into the 6th inning. That means our bullpen is very much overworked and cant be as effective. It seems the FO is not panicking, despite the Small call-up. They seem to recognize, and fortunately so, that our bullpen is being overworked because of our inconsistent starting pitching. THE STARTERS HAVE TO GET AT LEAST TO THE 6TH INNING CONSISTENTLY OR WE WILL ONLY HAVE MORE PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD. Pavano has been our staff ace all season long and has pitched beyond expectations - well, at least for some anyway. EVERY other starter has been very inconsistent and you have to start to wonder whether or not they will turn the corner. Once Beckett gets back and gets going, the other starters will start to fall in line and the bullpen will start to shape up as guys will start to learn their roles. Right now, the pitching must be straightened out before we even THINK of acquiring another bat. The offense is not the problem. It is the pitching - and the whole staff (minus Benitez and Pavano) should be under fire. A challenge for any of you statheads out there: we are 11-18 since May 30th. See how many of those have been quality starts and we will have a better diagnosis.
July 2, 200422 yr A challenge for any of you statheads out there:? we are 11-18 since May 30th.? See how many of those have been quality starts and we will have a better diagnosis. 436560[/snapback] Not usually a stathead but I'm bored so I went and looked at all the boxscores. Unless I made a mistake somewhere, I counted 12. June 2 (Willis) June 4 (Pavano) June 10 (Pavano) June 12 (Penny) June 13 (Willis) June 15 (Burnett) June 16 (Pavano) June 20 (Burnett) June 22 (Pavano) June 23 (Penny) June 25 (Burnett) June 27 (Pavano)
July 2, 200422 yr thats utterly sad. it just adds to the multitude of problems this team has faced recently.
July 2, 200422 yr Author A challenge for any of you statheads out there:? we are 11-18 since May 30th.? See how many of those have been quality starts and we will have a better diagnosis. 436560[/snapback] Not usually a stathead but I'm bored so I went and looked at all the boxscores. Unless I made a mistake somewhere, I counted 12. June 2 (Willis) June 4 (Pavano) June 10 (Pavano) June 12 (Penny) June 13 (Willis) June 15 (Burnett) June 16 (Pavano) June 20 (Burnett) June 22 (Pavano) June 23 (Penny) June 25 (Burnett) June 27 (Pavano) 436586[/snapback] And here are the results: 6/2 L 6/4 W 6/10 W 6/12 L 6/13 W 6/15 L 6/16 W 6/20 L 6/22 W 6/23 W 6/25 L 6/27 W Record 7-5. Obviously, losses with quality starts could be blamed on the offense, who didnt score, or the bullpen for blowing the lead. But more telling is that over the past month (well, 11-18, 29 games) we have had only 12 quality starts (which I am following Admin's assessment). That is terrible.
July 2, 200422 yr its a team wide problem. the only thing on this team peforming really is the defense. the starting sucks. the offense sucks. the bench is pathetic. the bullpen for the most part has been pathetic.
July 2, 200422 yr bullpen has been the most pathetic though i mean the offense at least has "potential" nobody expects the bullpen to improve without trade
July 2, 200422 yr The problem is the players believe they can't win without a trade. That is bad. Shows how much confidence they have in themselves.
July 2, 200422 yr bullpen has been the most pathetic though i mean the offense at least has "potential" nobody expects the bullpen to improve without trade 436625[/snapback] agreed. but the offense isn't even living up to its potential and we can't sit around and wait until it does. by then, we'l be in third place. basically both are necessities
July 2, 200422 yr The problem is the players believe they can't win without a trade. That is bad. Shows how much confidence they have in themselves. 436627[/snapback] Yeah, when the players don't think this group of guys can win, that's just feces. Confidence doesn't win games, but this is an awful attitude.
July 2, 200422 yr it is me, or this team loses when there is a rain delay? last time I remember the fish winning with rain, was last year with dontrelle going 5 innings and the game getting called
July 2, 200422 yr Wow, that's right. We lost game 3 of the World Series. The three Atlanta games, hmmm I can't remember us winning in the rain.
July 2, 200422 yr agreed. but the offense isn't even living up to its potential and we can't sit around and wait until it does. by then, we'l be in third place. Maybe that is what this team needs....a new vantage point (not in the division leader spot)....like a race horse down the stretch, this team seems to have lost its focus....if we were fighting to gain on the Phillies/Braves/Mets (whomever) that may change the attitude of this team. Rather than being on top and not seeing the competition. Just food for thought !!!
July 2, 200422 yr Author The problem is the players believe they can't win without a trade. That is bad. Shows how much confidence they have in themselves. 436627[/snapback] I agree that this is a troubling trend. Not the kind of thing you expect from a McKeon coached team. Perhaps the rhetoric is spreading from the coaching staff down? If that is the case, there are more grave things in motion.
July 2, 200422 yr agreed. but the offense isn't even living up to its potential and we can't sit around and wait until it does. by then, we'l be in third place. Maybe that is what this team needs....a new vantage point (not in the division leader spot)....like a race horse down the stretch, this team seems to have lost its focus....if we were fighting to gain on the Phillies/Braves/Mets (whomever) that may change the attitude of this team. Rather than being on top and not seeing the competition. Just food for thought !!! 436698[/snapback] Agree with you 100% amigo..the fish have been sitting pretty on top all year maybe if they fall a few games back they might start playing better and remember that nothing is going to be given to them...
July 2, 200422 yr its a team wide problem. the only thing on this team peforming really is the defense. the starting sucks. the offense sucks. the bench is pathetic. the bullpen for the most part has been pathetic. 436598[/snapback] I don't blame so much starting pitching because you can't expect the starter to be lights out plus injury to Beckett but THE BULLPEN is beyond pathetic. BULLPEN Another Big BAT The bench will be better with Conine heading to bench and Cordero coming back sometime in the future.
July 4, 200422 yr Author Other than Pavano, no starter has been able to consistently give us a quality start. I said this about a week ago - Penny is back to being a thrower and has been very inconsistent lately after starting the season off like an All-star. You cant play small ball and hit from a position of comfort the way the Marlins are used to IF you cant get quality starts out of your starters. Bullpen or not, this problem STARTS with the starters.
July 4, 200422 yr youre like a pathological thread bumper, jonny. anyways, me personally... i'm panicking.
July 4, 200422 yr 5 games out at the all star break then I'll panic, but I still believe this team will turn it around and it starts with today
July 4, 200422 yr Author youre like a pathological thread bumper, jonny. anyways, me personally... i'm panicking. 439752[/snapback] Damn right. If people would only read the threads in the first place...besides, nothing has changed. This team is better than it has showed of late. Thus, dont panic.
July 4, 200422 yr I agree that this is a troubling trend. Not the kind of thing you expect from a McKeon coached team. Perhaps the rhetoric is spreading from the coaching staff down? If that is the case, there are more grave things in motion. 436721[/snapback] I'm the first one to scream 'MLB forum' each time someone posts Pudge or Derrek Lee's stats, but maybe they are right. We are counting too much on young players to play up to their potential and others to outplay their contracts. That's a lot of pressure for second-year players Cabrera and Willis or even revered veterans Lowell and Niner, and I'm not sure they think they can handle it.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.