November 29, 200421 yr So everybody was out of the office for the Thanksgiving weekend, eh? Even baseball's general managers -- most of whom work 24/7 through the season and then really get to work in the offseason -- took a day or two over the weekend. Good. Let them enjoy the turkey-sandwich season while giving the Hot Stove a rest. All the better. While they about to wake from their tryptophan slumber, it's as good a time as any to play with our Junior GM Chemistry Set and make some trades. You know, a little of this for a little of that, pure experimentation. No, they don't count. But since we have the luxury of not caring what the fallout might be, it's easy and fun. The Big Three? Kablooey. Big Unit? Say bye to BOB. Sammy Sosa? Corked as a Cub. We'll hit 'em all with reckless abandon -- but at least with a little bit of an educated guess. Our MLB.com correspondents helped with some brainstorming and some of these have been out there awhile, but let's see what we can cook up while the chefs aren't looking. Here are just a few trades that should, could or perhaps never would be made this coming winter: hot stove 2004 Complete coverage > SHOULDA # LHP Randy Johnson from Diamondbacks to Cardinals for RHP Jason Marquis, RHP Kiko Calero and LHP Rick Ankiel It worked out well for Big Mac. Now how about the Big Unit closing out his career in Baseball Town USA? You'd think the cozy and contending confines of Busch Stadium would rate Johnson lifting the no-trade veto. The D-Backs might hope to get RHP Danny Haren, but Marquis makes a little more sense financially for St. Louis, since he'll get an arbitration salary bump next year and that'll offset a bit of the Big Unit payroll bump. Johnson would provide a huge boost toward another World Series bid for the Cards, obviously. Meanwhile, Marquis could join with Brandon Webb as a nice 1-2 punch, Calero would be an upgrade in any of his numerous potential roles, and -- who knows? -- Ankiel could become the next big lefty in Arizona. That's not to say White Sox (Paul Konerko/Jon Garland?) or Angels (1B prospect Casey Kotchman, RHP prospect Ervin Santana and C Jose Molina?) wouldn't happen. Or even Yankees (RHP Javier Vazquez and prospects that emerge from thin air?). But the St. Louis one is the one that should be done. A couple other shouldas: RHP Ugueth Urbina from Detroit to the Giants for RHP David Aardsma (Urbina being reunited with Felipe Alou could be mutually beneficial); 1B Phil Nevin and OF Jay Payton from Padres to Marlins for CF Juan Pierre and RF Juan Encarnacion (Padres need speed so bad they might deal one of their core guys with his no-trade window open). COULDA When it comes to the Big Three right now, the question isn't whether they should be broken up this offseason -- let's just assume they will. (See? Easy.) It's really a matter of which one goes. Here are a few scenarios: # LHP Barry Zito from A's to Red Sox for RF Trot Nixon and 3B Kevin Youkilis # LHP Mark Mulder from A's to Braves for 2B Marcus Giles # RHP Tim Hudson from A's to Marlins for 2B Luis Castillo ... or to Orioles for 2B Jerry Hairston, RHP Jorge Julio and RHP John Maine Or the fourth possibility: # A's GM Billy Beane is just pumping everybody for information and doesn't intend to break up what he has called "his brain" -- the Big Three. Let's see. The Boston one makes one think of Bruce Hurst with a bigger curve, a financial wash with Nixon's salary and, Youkilis, the Greek God of Walks, having to shift positions. The Atlanta one makes sense for both sides but has that wash feeling, too. The Hudson packages are intriguing enough, but he has the air of a core guy you want to keep around. Door No. 4 might actually be the most likely of these, come to think of it. But, then, once Beane does find out what's out there, you figure he'll try to put it to use somehow. Pick your poison. But if there were going to be a time to deal one of them, this could be it, what with Rich Harden nudging his way into the Big Three's class. WOULDA One more that could be just crazy enough to work. # RF Sammy Sosa from Cubs to Mets for C Mike Piazza, and Piazza to Dodgers for OF/1B Shawn Green Shuffle those big contracts 'round and 'round from big market to big market. Sammy takes on New York and maybe finds it in him again to be worth the headache, Piazza returns to the place where he can clear the palm trees in left if he's healthy and Green fills the void, and perhaps then some, at Wrigley. Now, there's a Big Three in a trade. Eh, maybe it's all a bit too much potential hype to be true. Thanks for the turkey shoot, GMs. Don't worry about cleaning up the mess, and don't be afraid to get your own stuff cooking before the December holidays come around. John Schlegel is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
November 29, 200421 yr We have absolutely no replacement for Louie or Juan though. Not that I am against the ideas... I just don't see who we'd trot out to second or cf. Maybe Easly at 2b I suppose.
November 29, 200421 yr Interesting I know a lot of people around here would love that Luis Castillo deal. It wouldn't be that bad I don't think. We would still need another bat. Nevin is interesting, but I think I would pass on him
November 29, 200421 yr Hudson for Castillo????? Why in the world would Beane do that? The JP and JE deal makes us better, but Nevin is often injured so if he and Payton have too big of contracts, that gets a big no.
November 29, 200421 yr Do the beckett for dunn, castillo for Hudson, and Pierre and Enc for Nevin and Payton. Funky line up then: Payton, Lo Duca, Cabrera, Dunn, Lowell, Nevin, Easly?, Gonzo and rotation: Hudson, AJ, Willis, Valdez, Wilson/Lieber/Lieter/Wright
November 29, 200421 yr I give an emphatic HELL NO to trading JP, JP is the heart and soul of this team, when he is on base he is a threat to score whether he is on 1st or 3rd he can score on any hit at anytime, and he can steal, he creates options I would not like to trade Castillo but for Hudson I would definatly have to think about it DO NOT TRADE BECKETT FOR DUNN !
November 29, 200421 yr If Beinfest can turn Castillo into Hudson, then there's no reason why he shouldn't swap Beckett for Dunn. While Beckett SHOULD be better than Hudson, fact is he isn't, and although our 1-2 punch of Pierre/Castillo is awesome, it's a luxury that can be forfeited for the chance to bring in something that is neccesary, a big left-handed power bat who also comes fairly cheap. If Beinfest could pull those two deals off we would be in 110% better shape than I ever would have imagined we could be coming into this off-season. Now, on trading Juan Pierre: Hell No. Not only does that deal not fill any big holes, like stated earlier, JP is by far the heart and soul of this team, a HUGE fan favorite, and a terrific player to boot.
November 29, 200421 yr Someone (Schlegel) had a bit too much to drink on Turkey Day either that or he's never spent one second following the Fish. Regardless of Hudson's skillset he'd never replace the fan appeal (translation: ticket sales) of Juan Pierre. Every kid in South Florida wants to grow up being just like him (we parents should pray that our kids grow up with the work ethic JP displays day in and day out). Every trade mentioning the Fish (not just in this article but in virtually every other) weakens the team while propping up the guys at the other end of the deal. Thank god Beinfest has more sense than that.
November 29, 200421 yr Every trade mentioning the Fish (not just in this article but in virtually every other) weakens the team while propping up the guys at the other end of the deal. Thank god Beinfest has more sense than that. 623068[/snapback] Excluding the JP to San Diego trade, I think the combination of Beckett for Dunn and Castillo for Hudson makes more sense than sense could make... that is, if that makes sense. :confused
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida.
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida. 623083[/snapback] A lot of people would disagree, only because of guys like Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, and Mike Lowell, but I don't.
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida. 623083[/snapback] A lot of people would disagree, only because of guys like Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, and Mike Lowell, but I don't. 623089[/snapback] 1) Shaq 2) Juan Pierre 3) Dwayne Wade Others
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida. 623083[/snapback] A lot of people would disagree, only because of guys like Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, and Mike Lowell, but I don't. 623089[/snapback] 1) Shaq 2) Juan Pierre 3) Dwayne Wade Others 623090[/snapback] Shaq is the obvious given, but considering that Jason Taylor is a spokesmen for several companies and Wade soon will be, I'd say JP is 4th behind those three guys.
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida. 623083[/snapback] A lot of people would disagree, only because of guys like Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, and Mike Lowell, but I don't. 623089[/snapback] 1) Shaq 2) Juan Pierre 3) Dwayne Wade Others 623090[/snapback] Shaq is the obvious given, but considering that Jason Taylor is a spokesmen for several companies and Wade soon will be, I'd say JP is 4th behind those three guys. 623093[/snapback] I'd put Dontrelle over JP.
November 29, 200421 yr Juan Pierre is arguably the second or third most marketable athlete in South Florida. 623083[/snapback] A lot of people would disagree, only because of guys like Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, and Mike Lowell, but I don't. 623089[/snapback] 1) Shaq 2) Juan Pierre 3) Dwayne Wade Others 623090[/snapback] Shaq is the obvious given, but considering that Jason Taylor is a spokesmen for several companies and Wade soon will be, I'd say JP is 4th behind those three guys. 623093[/snapback] I'd put Dontrelle over JP. 623103[/snapback] That's arguable. And if this is locally marketable, Lowell has to be wayyyy up there...
November 30, 200421 yr I definitely dont agree with the Juan Pierre trade. He is essential to the team. He can do many things that the other players lack. Also, his personality contributes greatly to the clubhouse.
November 30, 200421 yr He can do many things that the other players lack. 623123[/snapback] Make asses of themselves by rapping? :plain Yeah... I went there. :shifty
November 30, 200421 yr He can do many things that the other players lack. 623123[/snapback] Make asses of themselves by rapping? :plain Yeah... I went there. :shifty 623125[/snapback] He was kidding, obviously. :whistle
November 30, 200421 yr Hudson for Castillo????? Why in the world would Beane do that? 623029[/snapback] That's exactly what I was thinking. Hudson is the horse for that pitching staff; the only one that's never really had an off-year. (ie, Zito and Mulder this year) Castillo may be good, but he's not worth a Hudson. Besides, their middle infield is pretty good. Crosby and Ellis'll do just fine for them.
November 30, 200421 yr I'd rather not Beinfest trade Pierre, but its arguable we wouldn't lose much on the field. Luiy gets on base at a better clip and can steal 30+ bases if asked. These two trades make no sense. Billy Beane would not want Castillo. The Marlins wouldn't take on Payton/Nevin's contracts. The deals that does make sense is Mulder-for-Giles or Sosa-Piazza-Green, and those offers are actually on the table. Atleast that's what has been reported.
November 30, 200421 yr These two trades make no sense. Billy Beane would not want Castillo. 623169[/snapback] Because Luis Castillo wears out pitchers with his high pitch at-bats and would make a good leadoff hitter for the A's. How many times have we seen Luis get into and 0-2 hole and battle back with a 10 pitch at bat and then get on base?
November 30, 200421 yr No, because Luiy is due $16 million over the next 3 years and not a very efficient baserunner.
November 30, 200421 yr No, because Luiy is due $16 million over the next 3 years and not a very efficient baserunner. 623270[/snapback] Wait, didn't you JUST say... Luiy gets on base at a better clip and can steal 30+ bases if asked. Now, it looks like we have a conflict folks! And Castillo's contract really isn't that big... especially considering Luis produces.
November 30, 200421 yr No, because Luiy is due $16 million over the next 3 years and not a very efficient baserunner. 623270[/snapback] Wait, didn't you JUST say... Luiy gets on base at a better clip and can steal 30+ bases if asked. Now, it looks like we have a conflict folks! And Castillo's contract really isn't that big... especially considering Luis produces. 623292[/snapback] having a lot of stolen bases doesn't make you an effective baserunner. The A's aren't looking for steals, (obviously). They wan't guys who don't get thrown out on the basepaths.
November 30, 200421 yr Efficient The Athletics do not want any speed player who can not steal successfully 70-80% of the time.
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