December 2, 200421 yr LIEBER'S NEW DEAL IN KRIS-MAS SPIRIT By GEORGE KING December 2, 2004 -- YANKEE NOTES The Yankees can blame the Mets for upping the price on free agent Jon Lieber after the Mets gave their free-agent pitcher, Kris Benson, a three-year deal worth $21.5 million. When the Yankees didn't pick up Lieber's $8 million option, they had hoped to sign the veteran right-hander for two years and $12 million. Now it appears they are closing in on a three-year deal for $21 million. "We are talking," was all GM Brian Cashman said on the subject yesterday. Well, there goes that idea. Lots of those 3-year 21mill offers going around, huh?
December 2, 200421 yr lieber = MEDIOCRE . next! 624967[/snapback] Mediocre? His numbers are in the same ballpark as one Josh Beckett who some people on here think is god. First of all he was 14-8, granted he had a lot of run support he still had solid numbers otherwise. He had a 4.3 ERA compared to Josh's 3.8 ERA, but Lieber pitches in a very hitter friendly park while Josh pitches in a pitcher friendly park, Lieber also pitches to 9 batters and Josh to 8. Lieber also had to face the Red Sox a number of times, the leagues best offense. Thier WHIPs are similar. Liebers a 1.7 and Josh's a 1.2. The biggest difference is the Ks of course. Josh averages 8/9innings. Jon 5/9innings. But Josh also walked 54 batters to Liebers 18, that is a big difference. Lieber only pitched in 1 more game but picthed 20 more inning than Josh. They both average 94 pitches an outing. And the last notable number is Josh gave up 16 HRs to Lieber's 20. Like I said, their numbers are in the same ball park, so I think Lieber is better than mediocre. I don't think he's as good as Josh, or he should replace him or anything, just pointing out that his numbers are similar to Josh, so he probably is better than mediocre.
December 2, 200421 yr Josh was injured a lot last year. He clearly has more talent than Lieber. Once he puts together a healthy string of years, he'll be a consistent Cy Young candidate.
December 2, 200421 yr I think Leiber deserves it. Last season was great for him and he was coming off TJ surgery. In 2005, he'll be 100% healthy for the entire year. He's a quick, groundball pitcher and a solid #3 starter(if not higher). I wish the Marlins would sign him(along with a few other guys out there).
December 2, 200421 yr I'd really rather have Lieber then Josh...He isn't a cocky a**hole like Josh and is very consistent...Just remember his career before tommy john surgery. He was an ace for the Cubs.
December 2, 200421 yr Lieber deserves it. He pitched well for the biggest spending team in baseball, call it his "reward." However, anyone who seriously thinks that Lieber is better than Beckett is insane. Glavine and Maddux went through growing pains, and remember, Beckett came out of high-school, not college. If he still hasn't reached his potential after this year, then fine, but give the guy a break, he's battled freak injuries and he can elevate his game when the situation dictates...that's the mark of a super-star.
December 2, 200421 yr There are better pitchers on the market than Lieber like: J.Wright, O. Perez, M. Clement, C. Pavano. I like Clement.
December 2, 200421 yr If Lieber signs with the Yanks and Johnson gets traded to the Yanks, do they end up dropping their pursuit of Leiter? Does this effectivley leave us as the main suitor for Leiter? Perhaps Leiter would be ok with being the 5th guy there but I hope not. btw I dont buy the Yanks dropping talks with Dbacks crap. Theyll get the big Unit.
December 2, 200421 yr If Lieber signs with the Yanks and Johnson gets traded to the Yanks, do they end up dropping their pursuit of Leiter? Does this effectivley leave us as the main suitor for Leiter? Perhaps Leiter would be ok with being the 5th guy there but I hope not. btw I dont buy the Yanks dropping talks with Dbacks crap. Theyll get the big Unit. 625023[/snapback] With Lieber back, their rotation is essentially the same as last year: Mussina Lieber Vazquez Brown ? That still leaves them without any lefty, and Brown will not be back next year...I think he'll be released if they can't find a trade partner. They're still absolutely interested in Leiter, but it all comes down to whether the Mets offer him arbitration...if they don't I think he goes to whoever gives him the sweeter offer, I don't buy the whole "family" thing if he's only pitching for one more year.
December 2, 200421 yr I'm not adverse of Wright or Clement, or maybe Wright and Clement because if we don't re-sign Valdez soon we may be in the unenviable position of finding two starting pitchers. One would think with the various good news the Fish have had (shareholders suit/stadium news) combined with the $$$ from the Pavano and Mando offers, this team could go out and seal the deal with a couple of guys without busting the bank. Actually, even in the event that we sign a couple of guys I'd like to see the Marlins bring back Valdez as insurance, a sixth starter, guy out of the pen in the mold of Helling in 2003. Not the worst guy to keep around or pitch seventh/eighth innings for you.
December 2, 200421 yr I'm not adverse of Wright or Clement, or maybe Wright and Clement because if we don't re-sign Valdez soon we may be in the unenviable position of finding two starting pitchers. One would think with the various good news the Fish have had (shareholders suit/stadium news) combined with the $$$ from the Pavano and Mando offers, this team could go out and seal the deal with a couple of guys without busting the bank. Actually, even in the event that we sign a couple of guys I'd like to see the Marlins bring back Valdez as insurance, a sixth starter, guy out of the pen in the mold of Helling in 2003. Not the worst guy to keep around or pitch seventh/eighth innings for you. 625031[/snapback] I'm all for that too, but it's expensive insurance. He'll likely find some team to give him 2 years at $4 mil total. And if we're talking about insurance, Clement could be our Beckett/Burnett insurance, because he's got similar stuff if either were to go down, and we'd have him locked up for a few years in case (God, I hope not) Burnett leaves after this year.
December 2, 200421 yr Thats good that they are focusing more on Leiber. This way we can be the main player for Lieter.
December 2, 200421 yr I'd really rather have Lieber then Josh...He isn't a cocky a**hole like Josh and is very consistent...Just remember his career before tommy john surgery. He was an ace for the Cubs. 624984[/snapback] an ace for the cubs? LOL that was when the cubs had nothing a few years ago. they lost like 98 games that year. whats wrong with you son. and leiber has hardly any stuff. hes a finese pitcher. another darren oliver. forget that. id rather have a guy with upside that struggled last year and can put it together. someone like pavano or benitez that has upside like that. jaret wright has upside. beckett has a s***load of upside. gimme some guys with stuff. some guys with talent. not do god dam old fart that will put up a 4.3 era with a team that cant score runs and has like 3 #9 hitters
December 2, 200421 yr lieber = MEDIOCRE . next! 624967[/snapback] Mediocre? His numbers are in the same ballpark as one Josh Beckett who some people on here think is god. First of all he was 14-8, granted he had a lot of run support he still had solid numbers otherwise. He had a 4.3 ERA compared to Josh's 3.8 ERA, but Lieber pitches in a very hitter friendly park while Josh pitches in a pitcher friendly park, Lieber also pitches to 9 batters and Josh to 8. Lieber also had to face the Red Sox a number of times, the leagues best offense. Thier WHIPs are similar. Liebers a 1.7 and Josh's a 1.2. The biggest difference is the Ks of course. Josh averages 8/9innings. Jon 5/9innings. But Josh also walked 54 batters to Liebers 18, that is a big difference. Lieber only pitched in 1 more game but picthed 20 more inning than Josh. They both average 94 pitches an outing. And the last notable number is Josh gave up 16 HRs to Lieber's 20. Like I said, their numbers are in the same ball park, so I think Lieber is better than mediocre. I don't think he's as good as Josh, or he should replace him or anything, just pointing out that his numbers are similar to Josh, so he probably is better than mediocre. 624969[/snapback] I'm all for trading Beckett. The kid is going to leave as a FA in 06/07 and is not likely to contribute much to the Marlins until then. It's best to trade him while his stock is high than let him leave. Still through all the injuries and the whining, Beckett has been a much better pitcher. The adjustments you've made for league and playing time look sound, but the ballpark ffects are fairly close. Since the addition of Camden Yards, Arlington and the multi-purpose parks, Yankee Stadium has become a pitcher's park in the AL. Josh's K and hit rates (BABIP%) suggest he'd do well in most parks. Lieber's do not.
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