February 12, 200521 yr Loria could also cut down the payroll to 10 million and use those funds to alleviate the taxpayer burden, but then there isnt much of a future is it? Lets be honest, if he hadnt signed Delgado, wouldnt these same people be saying "why should we invest in the Marlins if they won't invest in themselves. They won't sign any major free agent. Blah blah..." Classic catch 22. Plus the current payment goes to PPS and not the Marlins. The Magic are gonna be asking for the same rebate, I believe for a second time. Isnt this law attached to stadiums and not teams? Loria is throwing in 192 million. Besides the Giants, that might be the most any private owner has contributed. I dont get the Loria bashing. This law was meant for stadium contruction. Its not like the guy is asking for the whole thing to be paid by using a toll on I95 or anything.
February 12, 200521 yr Loria could also cut down the payroll to 10 million and use those funds to alleviate the taxpayer burden, but then there isnt much of a future is it? Lets be honest, if he hadnt signed Delgado, wouldnt these same people be saying "why should we invest in the Marlins if they won't invest in themselves. They won't sign any major free agent. Blah blah..." Classic catch 22. Plus the current payment goes to PPS and not the Marlins. The Magic are gonna be asking for the same rebate, I believe for a second time. Isnt this law attached to stadiums and not teams? Loria is throwing in 192 million. Besides the Giants, that might be the most any private owner has contributed. I dont get the Loria bashing. This law was meant for stadium contruction. Its not like the guy is asking for the whole thing to be paid by using a toll on I95 or anything. 683292[/snapback] Samson also asked that an existing $2 million-a-year subsidy for the Marlins at the newly named Dolphins Stadium -- formerly Pro Player Stadium -- be reassigned to the Miami Dolphins and owner Wayne Huizenga, who once owned the Marlins and is the team's landlord. State law prohibits a team from getting more than one subsidy. according to Tampa news. link So if the state caves to the Marlins and give them another deal that means once the Magic get their act together it means they'd most likely have to cave to them. That would mean $120 million extra in state money going to two sport franchises. Don't any of you think in this state, home of one of the worst education systems, that maybe we could spend that money a little better? If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. I doubt people would say Loria is just screwing around then, but he spent that money to help the next 4 years of the franchise, not the next 10-20-30+ years. Its his priority. Its just tough to swallow this pill. As much as we all might hate Wayne, look at this. He is going to refurbish Dolphin's stadium and the surrounding area. The entire project is going to cost a half a billion dollars and he is not asking for a single penny. Should the state be responsible to help out ever business in the state that wants it? I mean lets be honest the Marlins are a business. A big one, but still a business. For arguments sake, lets say Publix was going out of business. Would you want the state to pay them a boatload of money just to keep this privately owned business afloat?
February 12, 200521 yr So if the state caves to the Marlins and give them another deal that means once the Magic get their act together it means they'd most likely have to cave to them. That would mean $120 million extra in state money going to two sport franchises.? Don't any of you think in this state, home of one of the worst education systems, that maybe we could spend that money a little better? If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over.? I doubt people would say Loria is just screwing around then, but he spent that money to help the next 4 years of the franchise, not the next 10-20-30+ years. Its his priority. Its just tough to swallow this pill.? As much as we all might hate Wayne, look at this.? He is going to refurbish Dolphin's stadium and the surrounding area.? The entire project is going to cost a half a billion dollars and he is not asking for a single penny.? Should the state be responsible to help out ever business in the state that wants it?? I mean lets be honest the Marlins are a business.? A big one, but still a business.? For arguments sake, lets say Publix was going out of business.? Would you want the state to pay them a boatload of money just to keep this privately owned business afloat? 683302[/snapback] You do realize that $2M/year is roughly .003% of the State's $61.6B annual budget don't you? Or about .01% of the State's $18.9B Education budget? We're debating what is essentially a drop in the bucket....and completely $$$$ that the Marlins will generate themselves.
February 12, 200521 yr dont feel for Wayne. He took all the money meant for the Marlins and used it on PPS. Its ok if he used it for baseball reasons but he wont let people see. More likely, he used it for football reasons, sold the fish, and made out with it. Youve gotta admit Loria is putting up a crapload of money despite not getting all the revenue from his own games, mediocre attendance, and still maintaining a winning team on the field. Just look over at Pittsburgh where you have an owner who has gotten a new stadium but hasnt invested a penny in the team. Its not like he is making out like a bandit by putting up 192 million. And all he is asking for is something meant for stadiums anyway. And the Publix analogy is a little extreme. Youve gotta know that. Its more like Publix is being kicked out of their current facilities, is paying 50% for a new facility and is just asking the state to contribute 10-20% from a law that was designed to give money to grocery stores.
February 12, 200521 yr So if the state caves to the Marlins and give them another deal that means once the Magic get their act together it means they'd most likely have to cave to them. That would mean $120 million extra in state money going to two sport franchises. Don't any of you think in this state, home of one of the worst education systems, that maybe we could spend that money a little better? If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. I doubt people would say Loria is just screwing around then, but he spent that money to help the next 4 years of the franchise, not the next 10-20-30+ years. Its his priority. Its just tough to swallow this pill. As much as we all might hate Wayne, look at this. He is going to refurbish Dolphin's stadium and the surrounding area. The entire project is going to cost a half a billion dollars and he is not asking for a single penny. Should the state be responsible to help out ever business in the state that wants it? I mean lets be honest the Marlins are a business. A big one, but still a business. For arguments sake, lets say Publix was going out of business. Would you want the state to pay them a boatload of money just to keep this privately owned business afloat? 683302[/snapback] You do realize that $2M/year is roughly .003% of the State's $61.6B annual budget don't you? Or about .01% of the State's $18.9B Education budget? We're debating what is essentially a drop in the bucket....and completely $$$$ that the Marlins will generate themselves. 683337[/snapback] Well the Marlins will take out a $30 million loan the first year. It just adds up to 2 million a year, but the first year its a $30 million loan that is really helping them. So you would be okay going to the head of whatever programs that are shot down over this and tell them why it is okay. Even if it was programs to help people in Alachua, Levy, Volusia, or any other county that probably doesn't care much about the Marlins or are helped by the Marlins? Then why not make the Marlins generate the money themselves straight up? I'll ask you the same question I asked FM. Should the state be responsible to help out ever business in the state that wants it? I mean lets be honest the Marlins are a business. A big one, but still a business. For arguments sake, lets say Publix was going out of business. Would you want the state to pay them a boatload of money just to keep this privately owned business afloat?
February 12, 200521 yr dont feel for Wayne. He took all the money meant for the Marlins and used it on PPS. Its ok if he used it for baseball reasons but he wont let people see. More likely, he used it for football reasons, sold the fish, and made out with it. Youve gotta admit Loria is putting up a crapload of money despite not getting all the revenue from his own games, mediocre attendance, and still maintaining a winning team on the field. Just look over at Pittsburgh where you have an owner who has gotten a new stadium but hasnt invested a penny in the team. Its not like he is making out like a bandit by putting up 192 million. And all he is asking for is something meant for stadiums anyway. And the Publix analogy is a little extreme. Youve gotta know that. Its more like Publix is being kicked out of their current facilities, is paying 50% for a new facility and is just asking the state to contribute 10-20% from a law that was designed to give money to grocery stores. 683342[/snapback] Okay so figure Wayne "stole" that $60 million, every single penny, which I think we can all agree on he didn't but lets say he did. He is still laying out $440 million plan on his own. Yes Loria is laying out a lot of money on his own. But he owns the team, or Marlins Business. But it is his business so he should lay out the money. I, you, the state, nor any one aside from Loria and his part owners share any part of the team. If I opened up a shopping franchise I would be expected to pay for my own facility on my own, no state help, aside from loans which I'd have to pay back evetually anyway. How extreme is it? Is it the state's fault the Marlins have a bum stadium deal? Did they force the Marlins to sign that deal? Loria knew what he was getting into, I hope and knew the deal in place. And the state already gave the Marlins (Publix) their money once. And now Albertsons over here (The Magic) will want some more money if Publix gets theirs. And what happens when any of the other Florida teams want to move in the future? This is just opening the door for a lot of money to go to rich people. Take from the state budget and give to the rich. I cry for Loria at night. And before last year, Pittsburgh has lead the Marlins in attendance basically nearly all of their existence, so be that as it may. The $52 million spent on Delgado is not a sure thing. He could hit .250 and 70 HRs over the next 4 years. Good investment then? He might do better, could do worse. But if that money was spent on a stadium to pay it off completely then the stadium would be there 100% of the time for the future. Loria decided to take more of a risk then do a sure thing. How is that the state's fault?
February 12, 200521 yr If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. This is where your logic goes to hell. Don't you think that Delgado is going to put a lot more of butts on the seats, more merchandise would be sold, more people watching on TV and listening on radio, etc. etc.? Loria is building a product and most importantly goodwill on this market. So by signing Delgado, the team should lose LESS money! :thumbup
February 12, 200521 yr If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. This is where your logic goes to hell. Don't you think that Delgado is going to put a lot more of butts on the seats, more merchandise would be sold, more people watching on TV and listening on radio, etc. etc.? Loria is building a product and most importantly goodwill on this market. So by signing Delgado, the team should lose LESS money! :thumbup 683357[/snapback] Doesn't matter how many more butts he puts in the seats, the Marlins won't make much more money. Merchandise and stuff yes that will help them. But will that help them more if they got a stadium for sure in 4-5 years? Delgado could lay an egg. What happens if he gets hurt? Or just begins to show his age. Then you are stuck with an aging high cost star who can't do what he used to and no future stadium. And you said it yourself, they lose money in Dolphins Stadium. Well if Loria laid out the money and got the stadium deal on the roll they'd get out of Dolphin Stadium and begin to MAKE money! And wouldn't getting a stadium for the future be the ultimate goodwill move, showing they will be part of the community for the forseeable future?
February 12, 200521 yr If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. This is where your logic goes to hell. Don't you think that Delgado is going to put a lot more of butts on the seats, more merchandise would be sold, more people watching on TV and listening on radio, etc. etc.? Loria is building a product and most importantly goodwill on this market. So by signing Delgado, the team should lose LESS money! :thumbup 683357[/snapback] Doesn't matter how many more butts he puts in the seats, the Marlins won't make much more money. Merchandise and stuff yes that will help them. But will that help them more if they got a stadium for sure in 4-5 years? Delgado could lay an egg. What happens if he gets hurt? Or just begins to show his age. Then you are stuck with an aging high cost star who can't do what he used to and no future stadium. And you said it yourself, they lose money in Dolphins Stadium. Well if Loria laid out the money and got the stadium deal on the roll they'd get out of Dolphin Stadium and begin to MAKE money! And wouldn't getting a stadium for the future be the ultimate goodwill move, showing they will be part of the community for the forseeable future? 683362[/snapback] The beauty of Delgado is that we kept the payroll the same. I can guarantee you that if Loria cutted the payroll to fund the stadium, you would have the entire South Florida media (starting with Fat Hank, LeRetard and Berardino) bashing Loria and claiming "I told you so. . .". This is a critical year to build this franchise. Would a 60,000+ attendance on openning day lit a bit of fire on polititians asses? I don't know, but it would be a lot better than 40,000+ that would show up with no Delgado.
February 12, 200521 yr If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. This is where your logic goes to hell. Don't you think that Delgado is going to put a lot more of butts on the seats, more merchandise would be sold, more people watching on TV and listening on radio, etc. etc.? Loria is building a product and most importantly goodwill on this market. So by signing Delgado, the team should lose LESS money! :thumbup 683357[/snapback] Doesn't matter how many more butts he puts in the seats, the Marlins won't make much more money. Merchandise and stuff yes that will help them. But will that help them more if they got a stadium for sure in 4-5 years? Delgado could lay an egg. What happens if he gets hurt? Or just begins to show his age. Then you are stuck with an aging high cost star who can't do what he used to and no future stadium. And you said it yourself, they lose money in Dolphins Stadium. Well if Loria laid out the money and got the stadium deal on the roll they'd get out of Dolphin Stadium and begin to MAKE money! And wouldn't getting a stadium for the future be the ultimate goodwill move, showing they will be part of the community for the forseeable future? 683362[/snapback] The beauty of Delgado is that we kept the payroll the same. I can guarantee you that if Loria cutted the payroll to fund the stadium, you would have the entire South Florida media (starting with Fat Hank, LeRetard and Berardino) bashing Loria and claiming "I told you so. . .". This is a critical year to build this franchise. Would a 60,000+ attendance on openning day lit a bit of fire on polititians asses? I don't know, but it would be a lot better than 40,000+ that would show up with no Delgado. 683369[/snapback] But if he layed out the missing money he wouldn't need the 60,000+ people because the stadium wouldn't need the state money. And like I said which do you think is the better way to send a message of wanting to stay in South Florida? Signing a player for 4 years, which will help the franchise for 4 years. Or Using that same money to be able to sign off on a stadium plan to keep the team in the county for a loooong looong time.
February 12, 200521 yr And don't you think people would be excited and happy the Marlins are staying for the foreseeable future and know it is okay to get attatched to them because they are staying?
February 12, 200521 yr If Loria didn't sign Delgado and used that money towards a stadium then I think the stadium would have been paid off, or there would be about 8 million dollars left to wiggle over. This is where your logic goes to hell. Don't you think that Delgado is going to put a lot more of butts on the seats, more merchandise would be sold, more people watching on TV and listening on radio, etc. etc.? Loria is building a product and most importantly goodwill on this market. So by signing Delgado, the team should lose LESS money! :thumbup 683357[/snapback] Doesn't matter how many more butts he puts in the seats, the Marlins won't make much more money. Merchandise and stuff yes that will help them. But will that help them more if they got a stadium for sure in 4-5 years? Delgado could lay an egg. What happens if he gets hurt? Or just begins to show his age. Then you are stuck with an aging high cost star who can't do what he used to and no future stadium. And you said it yourself, they lose money in Dolphins Stadium. Well if Loria laid out the money and got the stadium deal on the roll they'd get out of Dolphin Stadium and begin to MAKE money! And wouldn't getting a stadium for the future be the ultimate goodwill move, showing they will be part of the community for the forseeable future? 683362[/snapback] The beauty of Delgado is that we kept the payroll the same. I can guarantee you that if Loria cutted the payroll to fund the stadium, you would have the entire South Florida media (starting with Fat Hank, LeRetard and Berardino) bashing Loria and claiming "I told you so. . .". This is a critical year to build this franchise. Would a 60,000+ attendance on openning day lit a bit of fire on polititians asses? I don't know, but it would be a lot better than 40,000+ that would show up with no Delgado. 683369[/snapback] But if he layed out the missing money he wouldn't need the 60,000+ people because the stadium wouldn't need the state money. And like I said which do you think is the better way to send a message of wanting to stay in South Florida? Signing a player for 4 years, which will help the franchise for 4 years. Or Using that same money to be able to sign off on a stadium plan to keep the team in the county for a loooong looong time. 683373[/snapback] I want to make something clear. I believe there is a Plan B and I do think the Stadium is a done deal. With the tax rebate or no rebate at all. So please stop being so overworked about the stadium and the Delgado deal being a potential Stadium Killer. Loria and co have to cry to the state to get the damn rebate and give the ultimatums. This is how business works. If is right or wrong, that's not something I want to judge or spent time discussing.
February 12, 200521 yr I am not saying Delgado is a deal killer or something like that. Just saying if Loria was serious about getting a stadium he could have basically gotten it done himself without the state. I just don't think the state should have to pay for the stadium. They've given the Marlins their money before, like it or not. Loria knew what he was walking into. And no one is forcing the Marlins to buy basically the most expensive stadium type there is. They could just build a dome, or have no dome at all and be able to build with a lot less money then they need right now. But they want the top of the line seemingly, and that is the state's fault and they should pay, why?
February 12, 200521 yr WPLG does not support the Marlins nor the Ballpark. This is their editorial on it. http://www.local10.com/editorials/4131275/detail.html WPLG has more editorials than most newspapers. 682942[/snapback] Not exactly a thorough and well-thought out editorial. 682951[/snapback] What's wrong with this editorial exactly? Is there something wrong pointing out that the Marlins rather spend $52 million on the next four years, rather then use that money to support the rest of their exsitence in S. Fla.? 683040[/snapback] Things aren't always black and white when you're trying to get people to support your team. Adding a player of Delgado's caliber will certainly increase local interest in the Marlins, and hopefully get more people to come to games this year.
February 12, 200521 yr I am not saying Delgado is a deal killer or something like that. Just saying if Loria was serious about getting a stadium he could have basically gotten it done himself without the state. I just don't think the state should have to pay for the stadium. They've given the Marlins their money before, like it or not. Loria knew what he was walking into. And no one is forcing the Marlins to buy basically the most expensive stadium type there is. They could just build a dome, or have no dome at all and be able to build with a lot less money then they need right now. But they want the top of the line seemingly, and that is the state's fault and they should pay, why? 683381[/snapback] Lets agree to disagree at this point. :thumbup
February 12, 200521 yr WPLG does not support the Marlins nor the Ballpark. This is their editorial on it. http://www.local10.com/editorials/4131275/detail.html WPLG has more editorials than most newspapers. 682942[/snapback] Not exactly a thorough and well-thought out editorial. 682951[/snapback] What's wrong with this editorial exactly? Is there something wrong pointing out that the Marlins rather spend $52 million on the next four years, rather then use that money to support the rest of their exsitence in S. Fla.? 683040[/snapback] Things aren't always black and white when you're trying to get people to support your team. Adding a player of Delgado's caliber will certainly increase local interest in the Marlins, and hopefully get more people to come to games this year. 683382[/snapback] But don't you also think local intrest would have risen if a stadium deal was pushed through with that money too? A stadium deal is contcrete you know what you are getting for your money. A player is more of a gamble, and when you are vying for a future in the place you are currently, do you want to gamble or take the sure thing. Loria made is decision, so they state should let Loria live or die by it.
February 12, 200521 yr What's wrong with this editorial exactly? Is there something wrong pointing out that the Marlins rather spend $52 million on the next four years, rather then use that money to support the rest of their exsitence in S. Fla.? 683040[/snapback] ...and I thought that by now everyone knew the difference between players payroll and stadium funding... :banghead
February 12, 200521 yr What's wrong with this editorial exactly? Is there something wrong pointing out that the Marlins rather spend $52 million on the next four years, rather then use that money to support the rest of their exsitence in S. Fla.? 683040[/snapback] ...and I thought that by now everyone knew the difference between players payroll and stadium funding... :banghead 683390[/snapback] Money is money is money.
February 14, 200521 yr Samson was fine. Didn't embarass himself & Putney seemed satisfied with most of Samson's answers to his questions. Not a particularly interesting interview, but at least it wasn't typical Samson cringe-inducing stuff.
February 14, 200521 yr I thought Samson acquitted himself very well with Putney who's demeanor and tone betrayed his objectivity. In the best exchange of the morning, Putney quotes facts and figures regarding the construction of various retractable-roof stadiums built in the last few years and queries how are the Marlins going come in at their quoted figure when all these stadiums cost significantly more. Samson looks him in the eyes and says, "Michael I wished you had used Minute Maid Park not {fillintheblank}. Those stadiums are or in excess of 1.2 million square feet. Like Minute Maid, the Marlins stadium will only be approximately 900,000 sq ft and Minute Maid was constructed for $250,000,000." Putney quickly changed subjects. Samson went on to explain that they are in the process of bidding out (to qualified construction companies) the job of building the field and that the winning bidder will be responsible for bringing the job in on-time and on budget wherein cost-overruns are primarily the obligation of the contractor and not the county, city or Marlins. Putney suggested that of costs for steel and concrete skyrocket the project engineers may cut corners to bring it in on budget to which Samson replied that was not possible. Putney closed his interrogation (and that was what it was) by reminding Samson he will be at the City and County commision meetings to report it as he sees it (in a most threatening manner). Samson held up well and did an excellent job of retorting the many naysayer misbeliefs that are circulating in our community. Job well done.
February 14, 200521 yr Is there a video of this interview somewhere online? 685015[/snapback] I looked on channel 10's website for it before I posted but I couldn't find it. Perhaps someone else would like to see if they have more luck than I but I came up empty.
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