May 1, 200521 yr Sheffield? 758604[/snapback] thank you i was about to name him. 300. career avg, 415+ HR, 1350+ RBI,2200 hits,400 OB%,527 SLG,927 OPS. 758626[/snapback] Yeah, but right now, no. He's going to have to get to 500 HR's for him to have a shot. Here are mine: ARod, Jeter, Johnson, Clemens, Maddux, Rivera, Bonds, Pudge, Griffey, Sosa, Piazza, Palmeiro, Glavine (although, I'm not sure I'd vote for him if I were a voter), Alomar (yeah, he just retired), Bagwell, Biggio, and Pedro. There are a ton of guys who are playing that could be HOF's, but these guys could go to Cooperstown right now if they called it quits. The guys I'd say that "should be" there if their careers continue are: Sheffield, Hoffman, Thome, Pujols, Guerrero, Manny, Helton, Rolen, and Tejada, with a bunch of "bubble" guys floating out there... 758846[/snapback] so let me get this strait. you say no to sheffield now because hes not at 500 HR. yet u name piazza,arod,pudge,alomar,biggio,jeter who also dont have 500 HR and players like alomar,biggio,jeter who have been good players their whole careers never put up power numbers and are nowhere near sheff in HR,RBI. plz stop. 758919[/snapback] OF is a power position, those others are not why are you comparing Piazza and Pudge to Sheffield?.... Piazza is the greatest offensive catcher ever, and Pudge is one of the best ever Sheffield isnt an alltimer like those 2 Alomar was THE 2nd baseman of the 90s, look at his numbers and awards.. dont compare Sheffield to him 759157[/snapback] regardless, their numbers are not comparable to sheffields if you count players like biggio who now plays OF and jeter. and about alomar. i didnt realize putting together 8 or 9 good years makes u a shoe in for the HOF. he has done s*** since 1999 and there are plentys of players not in the HOF with even better numbers than him in similar positions. 759381[/snapback] 2001 Alomar had 20hr and 120 rbi 12 time all star, 1992 alcs mvp, 10 gold gloves, 4 silver slugger awards the HOF is for the best players of their time and Alomar was far and away the best 2B of the 90s. I wont argue Jeter/Biggio but if they went head to head against Sheffield for one spot in the HOF, they get that spot 99% of the time
May 1, 200521 yr Which players are sure fire HOF players? If their careers ended today and never played again who would be in the HOF? Discuss 758128[/snapback] Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell, Rafael Palmeiro, Craig Biggio, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Sammy Sosa, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman From upcoming HOF classes: 2006: Will Clark 2007: Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, Mark McGwire 2008: Nobody 2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson 2010: Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Fred McGriff
May 1, 200521 yr Bonds Alex Rodriguez Clemens Maddux Glavine Randy Johnson Ivan Rodriguez Piazza Sosa Palmeiro (he should retire already) Rivera Bagwell These guys are all certain HOFers. I think that any others are borderline/not far enough in their careers to be sure.
May 1, 200521 yr Sheffield? 758604[/snapback] thank you i was about to name him. 300. career avg, 415+ HR, 1350+ RBI,2200 hits,400 OB%,527 SLG,927 OPS. 758626[/snapback] Yeah, but right now, no. He's going to have to get to 500 HR's for him to have a shot. Here are mine: ARod, Jeter, Johnson, Clemens, Maddux, Rivera, Bonds, Pudge, Griffey, Sosa, Piazza, Palmeiro, Glavine (although, I'm not sure I'd vote for him if I were a voter), Alomar (yeah, he just retired), Bagwell, Biggio, and Pedro. There are a ton of guys who are playing that could be HOF's, but these guys could go to Cooperstown right now if they called it quits. The guys I'd say that "should be" there if their careers continue are: Sheffield, Hoffman, Thome, Pujols, Guerrero, Manny, Helton, Rolen, and Tejada, with a bunch of "bubble" guys floating out there... 758846[/snapback] so let me get this strait. you say no to sheffield now because hes not at 500 HR. yet u name piazza,arod,pudge,alomar,biggio,jeter who also dont have 500 HR and players like alomar,biggio,jeter who have been good players their whole careers never put up power numbers and are nowhere near sheff in HR,RBI. plz stop. 758919[/snapback] OF is a power position, those others are not why are you comparing Piazza and Pudge to Sheffield?.... Piazza is the greatest offensive catcher ever, and Pudge is one of the best ever Sheffield isnt an alltimer like those 2 Alomar was THE 2nd baseman of the 90s, look at his numbers and awards.. dont compare Sheffield to him 759157[/snapback] regardless, their numbers are not comparable to sheffields if you count players like biggio who now plays OF and jeter. and about alomar. i didnt realize putting together 8 or 9 good years makes u a shoe in for the HOF. he has done s*** since 1999 and there are plentys of players not in the HOF with even better numbers than him in similar positions. 759381[/snapback] Sheffield (my favorite Marlin of all time so there is even bias there to begin with) was a below average fielder at third base, was never a plus defender in the outfield, and wasn't ever mentioned as a Gold Glove caliber outfielder. He had an average to above average arm in his good years, but never a shut them down rifle. He was, even in his best years, a one dimensional offensive player. And when you go by that standard, 418 career HR's and a .298 BA don't really make you a lock for the hall, especially when you consider that during those years, he was never the consensus #1 outfielder in baseball, and he only topped 40 HR's twice. He gets inflated credit for having (at least in my opinion) his career year in '96 (42 HR, 120 RBI, .314 BA) before the ball started flying out of the ballpark at a ridiculous rate, but he isn't on the same level as any of the other sure fire locks for the Hall. Three more productive years and he definitely could be, but not right now, and again, the main drawback is that he was never a plus defender.
May 1, 200521 yr Only one person giving love to Omar Vizquel? 759751[/snapback] 9 consecutive GG's is damn impressive, but he bookended those gold-gloves with average seasons (and he committed 20 errors one of the years he won a glove, lol). Not to mention, Palmeiro winning the '99 gold-glove for 1st base while essentially being a DH really lessened the value of the award (at least, to a person with multiple awards).
May 1, 200521 yr Only one person giving love to Omar Vizquel? 759751[/snapback] 9 consecutive GG's is damn impressive, but he bookended those gold-gloves with average seasons (and he committed 20 errors one of the years he won a glove, lol). Not to mention, Palmeiro winning the '99 gold-glove for 1st base while essentially being a DH really lessened the value of the award (at least, to a person with multiple awards). 759897[/snapback] one or two gold gloves may be meaningless, but winning a string of them isn't....look at the all time gold glove leader and each position....every single position it's the guy who was easily the best ever defensively at that position....other than Ozzie Smith, Vizquel is the greatest defensive shortstop of all time He is past his prime defensively, yet every game I am at awe of his defense
May 1, 200521 yr Only one person giving love to Omar Vizquel? 759751[/snapback] 9 consecutive GG's is damn impressive, but he bookended those gold-gloves with average seasons (and he committed 20 errors one of the years he won a glove, lol). Not to mention, Palmeiro winning the '99 gold-glove for 1st base while essentially being a DH really lessened the value of the award (at least, to a person with multiple awards). 759897[/snapback] one or two gold gloves may be meaningless, but winning a string of them isn't....look at the all time gold glove leader and each position....every single position it's the guy who was easily the best ever defensively at that position....other than Ozzie Smith, Vizquel is the greatest defensive shortstop of all time He is past his prime defensively, yet every game I am at awe of his defense 760604[/snapback] Here is all I have to say: Rafael Palmeiro: 1997, 1998, 1999 Gold Glove winner for first base. Silver Slugger award, 1998 (First Base), 1999 (DH). In '99 Palmeiro played an astonishing 28 games at first base and won the Gold Glove award. They don't mean what they used to. Not to mention, Vizquel committed 20 errors in '96, but still won his 4th consecutive Gold Glove. Now, I understand the argument that truly amazing defensive players get to balls that other players can't, meaning they make more errors, but 20 errors is pretty darn high, and when you live off of your glove, you better shine pretty bright to make it to the Hall...
May 2, 200521 yr There's no question Vizquel is the best defensive shortstop of the 90's and best defensive shortstop in American League history.. if that's enough to get him in remains to be seen. I don't think it does though.
May 7, 200521 yr So you can be the best defensive player of all time at a position and not get into the Hall of Fame? That's worthy in its own right I think.
May 7, 200521 yr So you can be the best defensive player of all time at a position and not get into the Hall of Fame? That's worthy in its own right I think. 765485[/snapback] Wouldn't Ozzie Smith be considered the best defensive short stop of all time?
May 7, 200521 yr Even if he is, Omar is the best All Time in the AL, and second best. Not exactly un-elite.
May 8, 200521 yr sheffield should be in as a marlin because 1-ws ring 2-his best year with the marlins 96 3-because i say so
May 8, 200521 yr Mark Grace is not a hall of famer. Craig Biggio should be a hall of famer now. The latter third of his career playing in a band box is offset playing the other 2/3 in a canyon. He reaches 3000 hits and its guaranteed. He will be top 10 doubles, all of those doods are in, save Pete Rose.
May 9, 200521 yr What do you guys think about Bernie Williams? From the Yankees currently, I believe Jeter, Mariano, A-Rod, Sheff (should get in if he plays a few more years) all will make it eventually. Bernie is gold glove winner, all star, I think he has .300 career average....
May 9, 200521 yr Author Bernie definately deserves HOF consideration. During the Yankees dynasty in the 90's Bernie was far and away the best player for the Yankees, IMO. A-Rod? Is A-Rod really a HOF if he never plays another game?
May 13, 200521 yr anyone think kevin brown should be in? i would take him in his prime over glavine in his prime. -thru 2004: 207-137 (not a great %, but losses inflated by playing early part of his career on crap rangers teams), 3.20 ERA, 2347 Ks -sub3 ERA every year from 1996 to 2001, incl. 1.89 in 1996 -twice led the league in ERA, twice 2nd and 7 times in the top 10 -robbed of the CYA in 1996, also finished 3rd in 1998 and 6th 3 other times -6 time all-star -ace of 1997 world champ marlins and 1998 NL champ padres hasnt exactly helped his legacy the past year+ in NYY and not winning any popularity contests either but how do you think he measures up overall?
May 13, 200521 yr What about John Smoltz? He was both a dominant starting pitcher, as well as a dominant closer. And if memory serves correct, isn't he the winningest post season pitcher in MLB history?
May 13, 200521 yr Author John Smoltz will definately get in. Kevin Brown...I dont know...he was really good...but...the media did not like him and he isnt exactly a shoe in...out of spite he probably wont get in
May 13, 200521 yr Brown, barring a 15 win season this year, and two more productive years (I'm talking 13-5 at the least), won't even get enough votes to stay on the ballot for consecutive years. I love the guy, but his numbers just aren't there. His arm is Hall of Fame good (maybe even best in baseball in his prime), but he just didn't put up the numbers he could/should have, and that cost him a hall shot. And yes, ARod would go into the Hall right now if he retired, he was already considered the greatest SS of all time (didn't take the career HR because of the position switch), but he's won the silver slugger for SS from '96-'03, 2 GG's, top 15 in MVP for 7 straight seasons (including one MVP win), and a career OPS of .955 (which is crazy). He's a lock, right now.
May 13, 200521 yr john smoltz, tom glavine, kevin brown, etc wont be in the hall. unless the voters lower their idiotic standards when it comes to pitchers
May 13, 200521 yr john smoltz, tom glavine, kevin brown, etc wont be in the hall. unless the voters lower their idiotic standards when it comes to pitchers 771692[/snapback] Why not Glavine? 263 Wins, a career W/L % of .605, 2 Cy Youngs, a WS MVP, 9 time All-Star, those are serious HOF numbers, and when you consider that with the 5 man rotation and increased bullpen specialization ending starters' nights earlier, we may never see another 300 game winner, Glavine's numbers really shine. Not to mention, Baseball-reference.com says his career numbers are on par with (here are the HOF players): Spahn, Grimes, Wynn, Gibson, Seaver, Jenkins. IMO, he's a lock for the hall.
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