The problem with the leiter bashing is that very few people bring out reasonable arguments. "leiter sucks", 'hes finished', 'trade him for kazmir'. Those are all idiotic statements and contribute to nothing. Leiter has been struggling this year. granted. Hes pitched 9 games. 2 of them (mets at shea and padres) were excelllent starts. He didnt win either. Hes won 2 games, and has kept the team in 2 more (which he didnt win either). He got rocked in 3 games. So putting that into perspective, at the end of may, and also ocnsidering that one of the games he got rocked in was after a 33 minute rain delay. Does he deserve blame for losses, of course he does. Should we get rid of him or relegate him to the bullpen, NO! not yet. He has kept our team in the game, and as for yesterday kensing let 2 inherited runners score in addition to the three runs he allowed. Criticze Al's performances if u must, but reasonably. I give AL till the allstar break to turn it around, of he doesnt then you worry. But so far he has kept us in 6 of 9 games he's pitched in. Not good at all, but not enough to get rid of him. If valdez would be playing like this we'd shrug it off as, oh well its the 5th starter. Reasonably, moving leiter to the 5ht spot and skipping him offdays may be a realistic solution, one i dont agree with but realistic. Has he been worth the money, maybe not, but he has the potential to turn it around. He didnt start off the 97 season well (coming off injury if i remmeber), but then turned it around. Juanky your post is awesome, agree 100%

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1997 was eight years ago. He's not the same pitcher he was then. He's getting old, and when older players lose it they typically go downhill quick. It's much more likely that this is what we're seeing than a bad patch he can turn around.

Dammit, the point wasn't to give Al Leiter some kind of grace card in which he could wiggle his way out of his horrendous start. However, try to keep it to one or two threads and it'd be nice if the conversation actually meant something. We only have to read tis gay sux hes horrebal trad him for pedro once to understand that you think he sucks and that's the point. Every single person doesn't have to chime in with an Al Leiter sucks post without any kind of new material, forty posts to reaffirm without addition the opening post in the conversation do not make a good thread.

 

You want to bash his need to attack the corners? Fine

You want to suggest something to change? Fine

You want to bring up prior stats as either something to be happy and/or dejected about? Fine

You want to complain about something else? Fine

 

But enough with the OMG Leiter sucks Miguel is hot posts. Do half of you even read the s*** you post after you hit add reply?

 

The world doesn't care for people who don't have reasons for doing things. So if you have a reason for hating (insert Marlin here), then go ahead and tell us you hate him and then promptly tell us why before our attention span takes us to a Holly thread about Turkey sandwiches. However, don't be surprised if people who are used to at least semi-passable discussion from 2003 and even some parts of 2004 get angry at you if all you have to add to the discussion is that Miguel is hot or that Juan Encarnacion has a long name.

Juanky,

It's much more fun to mock people than talk sense into them.

Somebody pin this sucker.

I for one do not dislike Leiter. To be honest I'd hate for this to be the way Leiter goes out. He has had a great career and if he can be a capable # 5 for us he may not be worth the money but he could help this team to a championship. But that is just it....is he the man?

 

Why is Jack sticking with Easley? Well, it gioves Castillo more time but he is also going with the hot hand. Why did Aguila get sent down and not Dillon? Hot hand. Why is Juan E. starting over Conine? Jack thinks Juan gives us a better chance to win.

 

I am not saying remove Leiter. I am saying it is a valid debate and not crazy by any means. Hey, let's see what Frank Castillo and Bazardo can do. If they do well, do you stick with Leiter just because he is a good guy? Naaah.

 

IMO, Leiter has to be better than Castillo, Bazardo and later on Valdez to stay in the rotation.

A belated applause to Juanky, great thread (but Leiter and Lowell are still worthless).

Great post Juanky...that needed to be said!

If you've joined the program late, I'll sum up this already classic thread:

 

1) New threads are great! However...

 

2) Redundant threads created within minutes of each other are rather pointless and make you look like a newb. If you see a topic that relates to your point, feel free to reply.

 

3) Fine, make another thread. Hey who cares, if we've earned anything in this country it's the right to make pointless redundant comments over and over until someone agrees with you.

 

4) Al Leiter ain't pitching too well.

 

:usaflag

1. Everybody complaining about Leiter.

2. Juanky complaining about all the people complaining.

3. A bunch of complainers agreeing with Juanky that too much complaining is going on.

4. Other complainers are complaining about Juanky complaining about the complainers.

 

:banghead :banghead

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0527.html

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/11749841.htm

 

Come on Jaunky, tell Beinfest to SHUT UP!!

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0527.html

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/11749841.htm

 

Come on Jaunky, tell Beinfest to SHUT UP!!

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Beinfest is commenting based on facts other than, "man i shouldnt have signed leiter, he sucks."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0527.html

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/11749841.htm

 

Come on Jaunky, tell Beinfest to SHUT UP!!

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Beinfest is commenting based on facts other than, "man i shouldnt have signed leiter, he sucks."

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Cangelosi,

 

Agreed. Messages of he sucks, they suck, etc without even an attempt of sounding civilized is immauture and old. My point is simply that the discussion of making a move with Leiter was fair...some in this forum disagree with that. The old, agree with me fine, disagree and you should shutup. I chimed in not because someone got all over me...I never commented on the issue. I'm just tired of a few thinking their opinion is so highly weighted that no one else should even speak.

 

Trust me, I know from our previous debates that you are open to debates on many issues. I just thought the header and theme of the original post was very much ego-driven and out of line.

You obviously didn't read either of my posts then, did you.

1. Everybody complaining about Leiter.

2. Juanky complaining about all the people complaining.

3. A bunch of complainers agreeing with Juanky that too much complaining is going on.

4. Other complainers are complaining about Juanky complaining about the complainers.

 

:banghead :banghead

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bravo

"These are the 2005 First Place in the NL East Florida Marlins.

 

Now shut the f*** up and enjoy tomorrow's game."

 

-- Jaunky, May 29th

 

Well, the team is 2-9 (and now the Last Place in the NL East Florida Marlins) since Jaunky told the forum to shut up.

 

Now that Loria has chimed in and said changes are needed will he be told to shut up too?

 

As my point was in that thread a forum such as this serves as a sounding board for many opinions and in this case many of the fans were on to something. We need to keep this up, keep the debate alive and push back this notion that negativity is not welcome until a select few(in their own mind at least) decide it's the right time.

 

So to all those that posted about Bill Robinson, Al Leiter, Perisho, Bump, etc. you were proven not to be negative but to be correct and now management is on board and we may start to see the changes we have been hoping for.

Is it really that hard to spell my name right?

No, it's not. Anything else?

Yeah. You still haven't properly understood my original post.

 

I said complain with logic and keep the threads down. I never said don't complain. But apparently they don't teach reading comprehension anymore.

Stag5,

 

I don't see the point of bumping this back. This was created two weeks ago, and a lot has happend since then.

Yeah. You still haven't properly understood my original post.

 

I said complain with logic and keep the threads down. I never said don't complain. But apparently they don't teach reading comprehension anymore.

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Acfually you never said that but that would have been a nice post. You said "Stop being little bitches, complaining about everything." And why are you telling me that you didn't say don't complain? I never said you did. I said you told these posters to "shut up." Your words, not mine. Ya know what they say about a person that says they are not guilty about something they were never accused of. Oh well...we are where we are and hopefully the team moves forward.

Stag5,

 

I don't see the point of bumping this back. This was created two weeks ago, and a lot has happend since then.

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Fresh Fish, I understand your point. So often we post things and are never accountable. I gaurantee you that if I looked through my old posts I'd find a lot of things I was dead-wrong about. What bothered me about this post was the tone one member took with fans that were sharing their opinions..and hey, these fans ended up being correct. I wouldn't drag back someones post to say...see, I toldya so. I did this in hopes that in the future when fans are debating changes if someone is upset with the content they either debate it or pass it by. Telling people to "shut up" and to "Stop being little bitches, complaining about everything" is language used by a person that thinks far too highly of his own opinions and very little of others.