The problem with the leiter bashing is that very few people bring out reasonable arguments. "leiter sucks", 'hes finished', 'trade him for kazmir'. Those are all idiotic statements and contribute to nothing.? If valdez would be playing like this we'd shrug it off as, oh well its the 5th starter. 784374[/snapback]

 

Fair enough, some arguments are immature. These are sports fans though, & many of them are kids. We can't have all Rob Neyers here. And of course we'd shrug off this kind of start if it were Valdez. Well actually I doubt that, he'd be getting ripped too... but number one Valdez is not very good to begin with so no one would be expecting much, and number two Valdez wouldn't be getting paid 8 million. I hate making the money arguments because it's certainly not my money, but nevertheless...

 

I don't see any "Marlins are finished" or "we're doomed" threads. Just people bitching about Leiter. I don't think he should be benched, traded, or sent down. But complaining after a crappy outing? That's to be expected.

I stood up for Al a few weeks back and said he should be given more of a chance to improve. Is he inconsistent? Hell yes. However I'm still not ready pull Al out of there because when he is consitent, the man can get the job done.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way and I hope Al doesn't prove me wrong, but I feel that he still has something left that he's not showing us right now.

He didn't start the '97 off well either? That was 8 years ago. He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts. Will Leiter turn it around? I guess he could. I don't think he will. But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

I don't agree with blaming the rain delay for Leiter's poor outing- he had given up 5 hits and 2 walks already before the rain delay. He was well on his way to a poor outing by the time the tarp covered the field.

He didn't start the '97 off well either? That was 8 years ago. He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts. Will Leiter turn it around? I guess he could. I don't think he will. But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

784391[/snapback]

 

:lol

 

touche

He didn't start the '97 off well either? That was 8 years ago. He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts. Will Leiter turn it around? I guess he could. I don't think he will. But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

784391[/snapback]

i agree :lol

He didn't start the '97 off well either?? That was 8 years ago.? He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts.? Will Leiter turn it around?? I guess he could.? I don't think he will.? But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

784391[/snapback]

i agree :lol

784419[/snapback]

 

You dont agree with his argument u just dont like leiter

Attention People Who Post in this Forum:

 

Shut Up.

 

It is anyone's right to post whatever the hell they want in this forum that is within the rules. What because I criticize my team I'm not as big a fan as you are? Bull S#@!. I've been a Marlins fan since they started in '93, and I've seen PLENTY of ups and downs through the years. I can praise good players and slam bad players and still be as much of a fan as you or anybody else. You prefer to sit back and bite your tongue even though you're thinking the exact same thing in side, and that's your choice. I prefer to voice my opinions about players, and that's my choice. It's not your place to tell people what to say and how to say it. What's the line again? If you don't like it, don't read it. I'm not talking about something that is a life/death situation here, I'm talking about baseball. If you were to have your opinion on something a little bit more important in life, maybe I would agree with you a bit more on it. But the last time I checked, the people who choose to criticize players have the same right to post here as the people who kiss their asses no matter how they are perfoming. So when it comes to us having opinions on our team, good or bad, there are two things you can do:

 

1) Absolutely nothing

 

and

 

2) Like it

Wow...

 

The irony of a thread about bitchign turning into just that - more bitching.

 

Grow up fans of the 1st place Florida Marlins.

1. I love how people agree with Juanky and pretend they are mad at the people who bitch after each loss, when OVER HALF of them are the ones making the threads bitching in the first place.

 

2. If Leiter continues to stink up the joint and people comment on it and make a thread, there is no reason to call them out. It is called being a passionate fan who has an issue with something. To be a 'prized' FA acquisition and have an ERA around 7 on May 26 after 9 starts is troubling, especially if he pitches at Dolphins Stadium. While the bitching over ever loss should stop, especially affter just winning 6 in a row, there is no need to be board Nazis and get after anyone who does not say a positive comment about a terribly under performing and frustrating player.

- just stick to reading the threads that you think are "worthy" of reading.

 

These type of threads suck as much as the threads with the immature arguments and the whinning

Instead of blaming Leiter so much how about the person who thought a 40 year old pitcher would warrant this much money or be more then a sub-par no. 5 guy in the rotation?

 

They are as much/more to blame. Im pretty sure Leiter isnt sucking on purpose...he's probably just not good anymore.

The problem is you dont know what a post says until you read it, and after reading it you've realized you've wasted your time. Reading through pages full of nonsense posts like 'we're doomed' or 'kill leiter' is a waste of time. You cant ignore the whoe, thread b/c theres stuff in it thats worth reading. It makes the page easier to read, the discussions more interesting, and it improves the board to reduce nonsense posts. That delgado thread when we signed him didnt have to be 2000 pages long.

The problem is you dont know what a post says until you read it, and after reading it you've realized you've wasted your time. Reading through pages full of nonsense posts like 'we're doomed' or 'kill leiter' is a waste of time. You cant ignore the whoe, thread b/c theres stuff in it thats worth reading. It makes the page easier to read, the discussions more interesting, and it improves the board to reduce nonsense posts. That delgado thread when we signed him didnt have to be 2000 pages long.

784464[/snapback]

harumph.

Instead of blaming Leiter so much how about the person who thought a 40 year old pitcher would warrant this much money or be more then a sub-par no. 5 guy in the rotation?

 

They are as much/more to blame. Im pretty sure Leiter isnt sucking on purpose...he's probably just not good anymore.

784461[/snapback]

 

Then he should have retired.

 

Sure we could blame the GM, but that is not all that much fun, especially since we are still in 1st in the NL East.

 

Lowell has been very good year in and year out, yet this year he has sucked and received s*** for it.

 

It's the nature of the beast in sports, it's what have you done for me lately and Leiter has been atrocious.

Instead of blaming Leiter so much how about the person who thought a 40 year old pitcher would warrant this much money or be more then a sub-par no. 5 guy in the rotation?

 

They are as much/more to blame. Im pretty sure Leiter isnt sucking on purpose...he's probably just not good anymore.

784461[/snapback]

 

Then he should have retired.

 

Sure we could blame the GM, but that is not all that much fun, especially since we are still in 1st in the NL East.

 

Lowell has been very good year in and year out, yet this year he has sucked and received s*** for it.

 

It's the nature of the beast in sports, it's what have you done for me lately and Leiter has been atrocious.

784472[/snapback]

If someone offers you 7 million a year, you are going to come back. You get offered that kind of green that's someone saying to you that you can pitch. I would certainely blame whoever signed off on that check rather then the one who cashes it.

 

To get paid, someone has to pay you.

He didn't start the '97 off well either?? That was 8 years ago.? He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts.? Will Leiter turn it around?? I guess he could.? I don't think he will.? But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

784391[/snapback]

i agree :lol

784419[/snapback]

 

You dont agree with his argument u just dont like leiter

784429[/snapback]

i do agree with his agument and i know i dislike al leiter...

The problem is you dont know what a post says until you read it, and after reading it you've realized you've wasted your time. Reading through pages full of nonsense posts like 'we're doomed' or 'kill leiter' is a waste of time. You cant ignore the whoe, thread b/c theres stuff in it thats worth reading. It makes the page easier to read, the discussions more interesting, and it improves the board to reduce nonsense posts. That delgado thread when we signed him didnt have to be 2000 pages long.

784464[/snapback]

 

 

Somehow I think you will get over the 0.8 seconds you lost of your life by skimming through someones posts that says "kill leiter". I find it more incredible that you would waste the time and make a posts that warrants peoples respsonses on the subject if you are so worried about your time being wasted. It is a message board and people here write what they feel in venting. You will have to deal with it, I'm sorry if you don't like your time 'wasted', but thats life if you are going to be this picky and your time is so valuable.

He didn't start the '97 off well either?? That was 8 years ago.? He is now 40 years old.

 

Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy.

 

I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts.? Will Leiter turn it around?? I guess he could.? I don't think he will.? But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made.

 

Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems.

 

Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

784391[/snapback]

i agree :lol

784419[/snapback]

 

You dont agree with his argument u just dont like leiter

784429[/snapback]

i do agree with his agument and i know i dislike al leiter...

784478[/snapback]

 

Stag5 makes a great argument here. Stop calling out posters because you feel that is the only way to justify your thoughts after you called everyone out for 'wasting your time' by bashing Leiter. :thumbdown

Leiter is a vet and maybe he has a a VERY bad start. But give him some time and he will be that crafty vet again. Lowell is starting to bust through his slump and I think Leiter will too. Hey the Phil's can't lose them all right?.

just as long as Kensing gets waived, Im cool

784199[/snapback]

 

 

 

personally i want lowell traded.

 

 

 

a just barely over .200 avg at this point proves how much you truly suck.

784207[/snapback]

I forgive you!!

Instead of blaming Leiter so much how about the person who thought a 40 year old pitcher would warrant this much money or be more then a sub-par no. 5 guy in the rotation?

 

They are as much/more to blame. Im pretty sure Leiter isnt sucking on purpose...he's probably just not good anymore.

784461[/snapback]

 

Then he should have retired.

 

Sure we could blame the GM, but that is not all that much fun, especially since we are still in 1st in the NL East.

 

Lowell has been very good year in and year out, yet this year he has sucked and received s*** for it.

 

It's the nature of the beast in sports, it's what have you done for me lately and Leiter has been atrocious.

784472[/snapback]

If someone offers you 7 million a year, you are going to come back. You get offered that kind of green that's someone saying to you that you can pitch. I would certainely blame whoever signed off on that check rather then the one who cashes it.

 

To get paid, someone has to pay you.

784477[/snapback]

 

I do not know how you can really say that you blame the person who signs the check over the one who cashes it. If I am at a job and I perform horribly, it's my ass and people will come down on me. You should be able to be accountable for yourself and your performances.

 

Leiter has a career ERA of 3.72, including an ERA of 3.21 last year. You would think moving to one of the best pitchers park in all of baseball would have kept that in the same ballpark, or somewhere under 4 at least. To give $7 mill in this day and age to a pitcher of his caliber and a guy coming off of a good year is not a crazy thing to do. At what point do you hold Leiter accountable for have an ERA of nearly 7 on May 26?

 

While we might have messed up initially by signing him, it is on Leiter what has happened. We are coming off of a WS two years ago and are in 1st right now in a tough, tough division. I think our GM has done more good than bad and has overall done a hell of a job. I can not conceive blaming him more than Leiter in this situation. Just does not make sense to me or contain much logic.

Leiter is a vet and maybe he has a a VERY bad start. But give him some time and he will be that crafty vet again. Lowell is starting to bust through his slump and I think Leiter will too. Hey the Phil's can't lose them all right?.

784485[/snapback]

 

 

We can only hope.

 

Personally, I am a lot less worried about Lowell than Leiter and losing yesterdays game shouldn't worry anyone (outside of Leiter sucking again).

So if you are a horrible employee you should turn yourself in? Ive always been under the impression that it is a boss's job to look at job performance and fire the person if he is performing. If you were going to be a horrible employee, the Boss should have found that out in the interview process.

 

I dont know how anyone can justify 7 million for a 40 year old pitcher not named Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens.

 

The Red Sox are supposedly money whores but they signed Matt Clement and Wade Miller to the same ammount of money as the Fish did for Leiter. That is the fault of management and ownership to jump on an aging pitcher who was considering retirement before this year.

So if you are a horrible employee you should turn yourself in? Ive always been under the impression that it is a boss's job to look at job performance and fire the person if he is performing. If you were going to be a horrible employee, the Boss should have found that out in the interview process.

 

I dont know how anyone can justify 7 million for a 40 year old pitcher not named Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens.

 

The Red Sox are supposedly money whores but they signed Matt Clement and Wade Miller to the same ammount of money as the Fish did for Leiter. That is the fault of management and ownership to jump on an aging pitcher who was considering retirement before this year.

784504[/snapback]

 

I'm sure Leiter didn't think he was going to be this poor, so I really can not compare the 'turning yourself in part'. It is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

 

Clemes makes 18 million, over 2 and 1/2 more times the salary Leiter makes. For a career pitcher like Leiter, coming off a good year and in a pitchers park, I can honestly justify giving him the money we did, when we did. The only thing that I would have beens skeptical about would have been health somewhat, and that has not been the issue at all this year. His performance just flat out sucks.

 

Wade Miller was a complete bargain and steal for you. For the price you paid and his age, I would have much rather gone down that rout. I guess his injuries in the past hindered him in FA, but also, I am not sure how much signing with the Sox for his price was not partly because he just wanted to play with them somewhat as well.

 

Clement has been an underacheiver pretty much his whole career and is making a similar amount to Leiter this year. If preseason, you saw him doing what he is doing now and Leiter doing what he is doing now, you would have a job next to Mrs. Cleo. I guarentee more people pre-season would have picked Leiter to have the better year.

 

However, not every move the Sox, or Even Theo Epstein has made has been gold either. Some moves just do not work out, and if it is the exception more then the rule, I can live with that and will blame the player for his performance over the management for theirs.