look guys, this deal was discussed then turned down it seems so why worry over it?

 

Castillo is way light years better defensively. Soriano is a beast offensively. He is a right hander and they do well in our park often. Yes I would love him here if he played LF but he doesnt and wont. So he isnt coming here.

 

Our team's core is our defense up the middle this year. We wont mess with that.

Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

 

Huh? Not according to any objectively measurable statistic, he's not. Taking into account offense only (fair, since you're argument centers on Soriano vs. Castillo on offense), Castillo doesn't rank well in VORP (Value over replacement player). That stat, developed by Baseball Prospectus, measures the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances.

 

Here are the VORP rankings for 2Bs in 2005:

 

1) Brian Roberts (VORP 54.3 -meaning Roberts is 54% than the average 2B)

2) Chase Utley (35.9)

3) Jeff Kent (35.6)

4) Marcus Giles (28.1)

5) SORIANO (27.7)

6) Craig Biggio (25.5)

7) Craig Counsell (20.1)

8) Luis Castillo (18.6)

 

By the way, ranking 8th is an improvement for Luis. Last year, he ranked 11th (although he also was 8th in the majors in 2003, and was 7th in the majors in 2002).

 

More importantly, however, are the following numbers...

 

40.7

39.0

33.5

18.6

 

These correspond to Castillo's VORPs from 2002-2005. Note the steady decline. That's what concerns me.

 

But to state that Castillo's the best 2B in baseball? C'mon.

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Castillo is the best second basemen in baseball. He is one of the top offensive second basemen in a position that historical, is a contact position, and is easily the best defensive second basemen in baseball.

It's no teal kool-aid. Luis Castillo is light years ahead of Alfonso Soriano in every aspect of the game.

Umm...not HRs, SBs, RBIs, Slugging %...Nobody compares to him among other 2B in those categories (as a total package). Maybe Jeff Kent. Maybe a Brett Boone (a few years ago).

 

He hit 38 HRs his last year as a yank...and although Yankee stadium is not a pitcher's park by any stretch of the imagination - it's generally considered tougher to hit there for right handed batters than Texas (ask A-Rod).

 

Soriano has his faults - but so does Luis. Luis can't hit homeruns. Luis doesn't drive in many runs. Luis doesn't have a great slugging percentage.

 

Luis has great numbers for a leadoff guy. Unfortunately, he doesn't bat leadoff.Way to skip over the entire post that pokes a hole in your case and instead basing your rebuttal on an introductory sentence.

 

Luis doesn't hit homeruns, and that's about it. He doesn't steal bases because he doesn't need to, and Jack doesn't like Juanpy and Luiy running with Delgado and Cabrera at the plate. Luiy doesn't drive in RBIs because he hits second in a National League lineup, while Soriano has 72.7% of his at bats in the 5 spot (a prime RBI spot) and 88.5% of his RBI from said spot. Soriano has just 7 RBI from the leadoff spot (where he would bat here unless he batted second), so it is for a surplus of RBI chances for Soriano and a lack of them for Castillo that Luiy doesn't compare in RBI. And if Soriano's Slugging percentage is so much better, why does Luiy have a higher one on the road?

 

Luiy's faults are few. He doesn't steal bases like he used to, though when he needs one he'll get one. And he doesn't hit homers, but he doesn't need to. He gets on base at an incredible clip, is the hardest to strike out in the majors, and is a great situational hitter who will put the ball in play if he doesn't walk. He also saves an immeasurable amount of runs in a year with his dives, double plays, and throws that no one else makes as often or as well.

Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

 

Huh? Not according to any objectively measurable statistic, he's not. Taking into account offense only (fair, since you're argument centers on Soriano vs. Castillo on offense), Castillo doesn't rank well in VORP (Value over replacement player). That stat, developed by Baseball Prospectus, measures the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances.

 

Here are the VORP rankings for 2Bs in 2005:

 

1) Brian Roberts (VORP 54.3 -meaning Roberts is 54% than the average 2B)

2) Chase Utley (35.9)

3) Jeff Kent (35.6)

4) Marcus Giles (28.1)

5) SORIANO (27.7)

6) Craig Biggio (25.5)

7) Craig Counsell (20.1)

8) Luis Castillo (18.6)

 

By the way, ranking 8th is an improvement for Luis. Last year, he ranked 11th (although he also was 8th in the majors in 2003, and was 7th in the majors in 2002).

 

More importantly, however, are the following numbers...

 

40.7

39.0

33.5

18.6

 

These correspond to Castillo's VORPs from 2002-2005. Note the steady decline. That's what concerns me.

 

But to state that Castillo's the best 2B in baseball? C'mon.

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VORP also had Josh Willingham as being the best catcher in baseball going into this year

Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

 

Huh? Not according to any objectively measurable statistic, he's not.

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By nearly every measure, Luiy is a better hitter than Soriano is away from Texas ballpark which is the Coors of the AL.

It's no teal kool-aid. Luis Castillo is light years ahead of Alfonso Soriano in every aspect of the game.

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Umm...not HRs, SBs, RBIs, Slugging %...Nobody compares to him among other 2B in those categories (as a total package). Maybe Jeff Kent. Maybe a Brett Boone (a few years ago).

 

He hit 38 HRs his last year as a yank...and although Yankee stadium is not a pitcher's park by any stretch of the imagination - it's generally considered tougher to hit there for right handed batters than Texas (ask A-Rod).

 

Soriano has his faults - but so does Luis. Luis can't hit homeruns. Luis doesn't drive in many runs. Luis doesn't have a great slugging percentage.

 

Luis has great numbers for a leadoff guy. Unfortunately, he doesn't bat leadoff.

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Luis Castillo actually has admirable power from the right side of the plate but he bats lefty more often, plus he plays in PPS...flaw #1 in your arguement.

 

Luis Castillo's SB are down, due to his hip problems and less of a need to steal due to Cabrera/Delgado hitting behind him in the lineup, causing less of a need to play small ball...flaw #2 in your arguement.

 

Hitting 2nd in a lineup will take your RBI totals down, and as for the reason with Delgado/Cabrera stated above, Castillo is not needed to be an RBI machine, they are added perks, his purpose is to get on base FOR the RBI machines...flaw #3 in your arguement.

 

And Pierre/Castillo are sort of a duel leadoff hitter, consider them #1 and #1A, so technically your arguemnt about him "not being a leadoff hitter" is not wrong, it is not necessarily correct either.

 

Now, when you factor in the gold glove defense, his ranking of 3rd among MLB 2nd basemen in batting average and his ranking of 1st among MLB 2nd basemen in on base percentage, I would say you have the best overall 2nd basemen in the game of professional baseball today...and Soriano can not even compare.

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Thats what I said

 

Luis doesn't hit homeruns, and that's about it. He doesn't steal bases because he doesn't need to, and Jack doesn't like Juanpy and Luiy running with Delgado and Cabrera at the plate. Luiy doesn't drive in RBIs because he hits second in a National League lineup, while Soriano has 72.7% of his at bats in the 5 spot (a prime RBI spot) and 88.5% of his RBI from said spot. Soriano has just 7 RBI from the leadoff spot (where he would bat here unless he batted second), so it is for a surplus of RBI chances for Soriano and a lack of them for Castillo that Luiy doesn't compare in RBI. And if Soriano's Slugging percentage is so much better, why does Luiy have a higher one on the road?

 

Luiy's faults are few. He doesn't steal bases like he used to, though when he needs one he'll get one. And he doesn't hit homers, but he doesn't need to. He gets on base at an incredible clip, is the hardest to strike out in the majors, and is a great situational hitter who will put the ball in play if he doesn't walk. He also saves an immeasurable amount of runs in a year with his dives, double plays, and throws that no one else makes as often or as well.

 

Thats what you said Juanky.

 

We are on the same page :thumbup

Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

 

Huh?? Not according to any objectively measurable statistic, he's not.? Taking into account offense only (fair, since you're argument centers on Soriano vs. Castillo on offense), Castillo doesn't rank well in VORP (Value over replacement player).? That stat, developed by Baseball Prospectus, measures the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances.

 

Here are the VORP rankings for 2Bs in 2005:

 

1) Brian Roberts (VORP 54.3 -meaning Roberts is 54% than the average 2B)

2) Chase Utley (35.9)

3) Jeff Kent (35.6)

4) Marcus Giles (28.1)

5) SORIANO (27.7)

6) Craig Biggio (25.5)

7) Craig Counsell (20.1)

8) Luis Castillo (18.6)

 

By the way, ranking 8th is an improvement for Luis.? Last year, he ranked 11th (although he also was 8th in the majors in 2003, and was 7th in the majors in 2002).

 

More importantly, however, are the following numbers...

 

40.7

39.0

33.5

18.6

 

These correspond to Castillo's VORPs from 2002-2005.? Note the steady decline.? That's what concerns me.

 

But to state that Castillo's the best 2B in baseball?? C'mon.

867215[/snapback]

 

 

VORP's good in determining the overall ability of a hitter. But for our team, Castillo is much more effective. Castillo bats in front of two sluggers, so he needs to get on base a lot, especially since Pierre is struggling. He does that perfectly. His OBP is 98 points higher than Soriano's even when including Soriano's inflated numbers.

 

And of course, you're ignoring Soriano's home/road splits. As has already been mentioned, he is a totally different hitter on the road. His OPS is 1.052 at home and .652 on the road. Don't you think that makes his VORP a little misleading?

 

Also, since you are familiar with BP, look at the EQA's of the respective players. Soriano's is .288, and Castillo's is .296. Who's the better hitter now?

 

And lastly, your point about Castillo declining is correct until you bring up 2005. Of course it's less than 2004! It's only half a season. Stretch it out for the whole year, and it's probably aroind 35 or 36, higher than 2004, and not a steady decline.

 

I will leave you with this excerpt about Soriano from the BP 2005 book:

 

"Probably the single most overrated player in baseball. Yes, it's interesting and exciting that he can hit a pitch two feet down and in over the fence. But what the hell is he doing swinging at it in the first place? Most of the time, he flails at that pitch and misses it, in yet another mini three-act play that has Soriano loping back to the bench. He hit .244/.291/.444 on the road. Defensively, no metric pegs him as a good defensive second baseman, and one advance scout describes him as 'beyond redemption' with the glove. Why, exactly, do people think this guy is anything remotely resembling a star? Are we that starved for excitement?"

It can be argued that Jeff Kent is a better 2B than Luiy.

 

It's really just dependent on what type of player you want - the top of the order hitter who is a better defensively, or the player who, while being a little worse defensively, can hit for power and still get on base at a decent rate.

The blurb said the rangers contacted the marlins about a deal involving soriano and burnett but the marlins turned them down because soriano refused to move to the outfield. Wow! Soriano sure would add some pop to this lineup!

 

Two questions:

 

How much could we get for luis, a obp monster and true leadoff hitter?

 

What else could we get from Texas in a deal if we trade them luis and burnett and they give us soriano and?

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would he play third?

burnett and castillo for soriano and lancye nix

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that's a bad deal for us. and they wouldn't part with nix they were offered a good deal from someone i recall earlier in the season and i thought it would benefit them and they didn't do it