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Soriano for Burnett was discussed


gobucks
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The blurb said the rangers contacted the marlins about a deal involving soriano and burnett but the marlins turned them down because soriano refused to move to the outfield. Wow! Soriano sure would add some pop to this lineup!

 

Two questions:

 

How much could we get for luis, a obp monster and true leadoff hitter?

 

What else could we get from Texas in a deal if we trade them luis and burnett and they give us soriano and?

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Hmm Luis isnt going anywhere, he will retire a marlin I bet. He loves it here and the Org loves him. Second Soriano Sucks at defense (our strength up the middle). Third isnt Soriano a FA after the year and getting paid alot? Plus We couldnt trade off lowell which our FA is determined to do.

 

It wont happen. Texas has some young talent that is nice though, but I dont see anyway we can work a deal with them. I would love toget my hands on blaylock, but I know that is a pipe dream.

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I'm tired of everyone on this board drinking the teal colored Kool-Aid. If you take out contract concerns, it is almost laughable to suggest Luis Castillo is better than Soriano. Now...I love Luis. He's a true marlin - and his defense and timely hitting make him one of the most valuable players on the team. And I've also heard many observers claim that Soriano is a clubhouse headache and can't hit good pitching (while he FEASTS on bad pitching). BUT, if Soriano were added to our team, he'd:

 

(1) lead our team in HRs and Runs scored

(2) be second on our team in hits (about 20 more than Luis)

(3) be second on our team in SBs (4 more than Luis)

(4) be third on our team in RBIs

(5) and only makes about $2 million more than Luis this year

 

For a 2B, he'd be an amazing hitter in our lineup. Also, I'm thinking maybe would could always move him to 3rd too. Finally, the "clubhouse headache" concerns are mere rumors, and the main reason texas wants to move him is that they have too many young positional players due for big paydays - and NO pitching.

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. It'd solve some serious offensive problems, and we'd still get a few draft picks come next year if we don't sign him. Also, it would show that we'd be playing to win this year.

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agreed completely swift.

2nd Baseman are picked for their defense first and foremost. Now he would be interesting at 1B or LF perhaps. But, he isnt anything close to useful at 2nd Base..

Heck even the yankees thought his defense was poor lol. That is saying something.

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(1) lead our team in HRs and Runs scored

(2) be second on our team in hits (about 20 more than Luis)

(4) be third on our team in RBIs

 

 

 

866801[/snapback]

 

 

Those numbers are pointless because he plays in a hitter friendly ballpark and the Marlins have played in pitcher frinedly Pro Player. Another reason he has 20 more hits than Luis is that he has 100 more ABs than Luis.

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Luis Castillo is much better than Soriano.

 

Soriano away from hitter-friendly Texas:

 

.230 avg, .270 OBP, .382 SLG, .652 OPS, 42 SO, 8 BB

 

Castillo, who plays in a pitcher's park that hurts his stats:

 

.321 avg, .415 OBP, .397 SLG, .812 OPS, 19 SO, 43 BB

 

Don't even mention defense. Soriano makes a terrible second baseman. But he also makes a terrible outfielder, third baseman, shortstop, first baseman, and catcher, because he can't hit.

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if we are going to trade with Texas.....this would be the deal i would propose...

 

 

AJ and Lowell for Hank Blaylock......take it or leave it Texas

they pay lowells contract

 

pierre (L)

castillo (S)

delgado (L)

cabrera ®

blaylock (L)

loduca ®

encarnacion ®

Gonzo®

pitcher :thumbup

 

 

Blaylock is young a good 3b and has good offensive #'s

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if we are going to trade with Texas.....this would be the deal i would propose...

 

 

AJ and Lowell for Hank Blaylock......take it or leave it Texas

they pay lowells contract

 

pierre (L)

castillo (S)

delgado (L)

cabrera ?

blaylock (L)

loduca ?

encarnacion ?

Gonzo?

pitcher :thumbup

 

 

Blaylock is young a good 3b and has good offensive #'s

866900[/snapback]

*click*

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if we are going to trade with Texas.....this would be the deal i would propose...

 

 

AJ and Lowell for Hank Blaylock......take it or leave it Texas

they pay lowells contract

 

pierre (L)

castillo (S)

delgado (L)

cabrera ?

blaylock (L)

loduca ?

encarnacion ?

Gonzo?

pitcher? :thumbup

 

 

Blaylock is young a good 3b and has good offensive #'s

866900[/snapback]

*click*

867035[/snapback]

 

It would be more like AJ, Olsen, Lowell and we pay some of the contract :p

 

Still might hear a click lol

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Guest Juanky

I'm tired of everyone on this board drinking the teal colored Kool-Aid. If you take out contract concerns, it is almost laughable to suggest Luis Castillo is better than Soriano. Now...I love Luis. He's a true marlin - and his defense and timely hitting make him one of the most valuable players on the team. And I've also heard many observers claim that Soriano is a clubhouse headache and can't hit good pitching (while he FEASTS on bad pitching). BUT, if Soriano were added to our team, he'd:

 

(1) lead our team in HRs and Runs scored

(2) be second on our team in hits (about 20 more than Luis)

(3) be second on our team in SBs (4 more than Luis)

(4) be third on our team in RBIs

(5) and only makes about $2 million more than Luis this year

 

For a 2B, he'd be an amazing hitter in our lineup. Also, I'm thinking maybe would could always move him to 3rd too. Finally, the "clubhouse headache" concerns are mere rumors, and the main reason texas wants to move him is that they have too many young positional players due for big paydays - and NO pitching.

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. It'd solve some serious offensive problems, and we'd still get a few draft picks come next year if we don't sign him. Also, it would show that we'd be playing to win this year.

It's no teal kool-aid. Luis Castillo is light years ahead of Alfonso Soriano in every aspect of the game.

 

Why don't you look at his stats away from the hitter's paradise in Texas?

.230/.270/.382, 6 HR, 18 RBI, 42 K, 8 BB, 5 SB

 

Compare that to our second baseman's road stats (which match his home stats almost exactly, except he has more power numbers on the road):

.336/.420/.436, 2 HR, 14 RBI, 5 K, 21 BB, 3 SB

 

Luiy is 103 points better in average, 50 in OBP, 54 in SLG (the one category that Soriano should be leading since he isn't a leadoff hitter), has just 4 less RBI hitting from the two spot, has 37 less strikeouts with 13 more walks. Oh, by the way, he is bar none the best defensive second baseman in baseball.

 

Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

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Luis Castillo is 3rd among MLB 2nd basemen in BA, and 1st among MLB 2nd baseman in OBP...why would you want to trade argueably the most productive MLB 2B at the plate who plays gold glove defense? While we are at it why dont we trade Gonzalez for Garciapara. It works out to about the same foolishness.

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It's no teal kool-aid. Luis Castillo is light years ahead of Alfonso Soriano in every aspect of the game.

867060[/snapback]

Umm...not HRs, SBs, RBIs, Slugging %...Nobody compares to him among other 2B in those categories (as a total package). Maybe Jeff Kent. Maybe a Brett Boone (a few years ago).

 

He hit 38 HRs his last year as a yank...and although Yankee stadium is not a pitcher's park by any stretch of the imagination - it's generally considered tougher to hit there for right handed batters than Texas (ask A-Rod).

 

Soriano has his faults - but so does Luis. Luis can't hit homeruns. Luis doesn't drive in many runs. Luis doesn't have a great slugging percentage.

 

Luis has great numbers for a leadoff guy. Unfortunately, he doesn't bat leadoff.

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It's no teal kool-aid. Luis Castillo is light years ahead of Alfonso Soriano in every aspect of the game.

867060[/snapback]

Umm...not HRs, SBs, RBIs, Slugging %...Nobody compares to him among other 2B in those categories (as a total package). Maybe Jeff Kent. Maybe a Brett Boone (a few years ago).

 

He hit 38 HRs his last year as a yank...and although Yankee stadium is not a pitcher's park by any stretch of the imagination - it's generally considered tougher to hit there for right handed batters than Texas (ask A-Rod).

 

Soriano has his faults - but so does Luis. Luis can't hit homeruns. Luis doesn't drive in many runs. Luis doesn't have a great slugging percentage.

 

Luis has great numbers for a leadoff guy. Unfortunately, he doesn't bat leadoff.

867168[/snapback]

 

Luis Castillo actually has admirable power from the right side of the plate but he bats lefty more often, plus he plays in PPS...flaw #1 in your arguement.

 

Luis Castillo's SB are down, due to his hip problems and less of a need to steal due to Cabrera/Delgado hitting behind him in the lineup, causing less of a need to play small ball...flaw #2 in your arguement.

 

Hitting 2nd in a lineup will take your RBI totals down, and as for the reason with Delgado/Cabrera stated above, Castillo is not needed to be an RBI machine, they are added perks, his purpose is to get on base FOR the RBI machines...flaw #3 in your arguement.

 

And Pierre/Castillo are sort of a duel leadoff hitter, consider them #1 and #1A, so technically your arguemnt about him "not being a leadoff hitter" is not wrong, it is not necessarily correct either.

 

Now, when you factor in the gold glove defense, his ranking of 3rd among MLB 2nd basemen in batting average and his ranking of 1st among MLB 2nd basemen in on base percentage, I would say you have the best overall 2nd basemen in the game of professional baseball today...and Soriano can not even compare.

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Luis Castillo is the best 2B in baseball. Alfonso Soriano can't hit the ball away from Texas.

 

Next.

 

Huh? Not according to any objectively measurable statistic, he's not. Taking into account offense only (fair, since you're argument centers on Soriano vs. Castillo on offense), Castillo doesn't rank well in VORP (Value over replacement player). That stat, developed by Baseball Prospectus, measures the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances.

 

Here are the VORP rankings for 2Bs in 2005:

 

1) Brian Roberts (VORP 54.3 -meaning Roberts is 54% than the average 2B)

2) Chase Utley (35.9)

3) Jeff Kent (35.6)

4) Marcus Giles (28.1)

5) SORIANO (27.7)

6) Craig Biggio (25.5)

7) Craig Counsell (20.1)

8) Luis Castillo (18.6)

 

By the way, ranking 8th is an improvement for Luis. Last year, he ranked 11th (although he also was 8th in the majors in 2003, and was 7th in the majors in 2002).

 

More importantly, however, are the following numbers...

 

40.7

39.0

33.5

18.6

 

These correspond to Castillo's VORPs from 2002-2005. Note the steady decline. That's what concerns me.

 

But to state that Castillo's the best 2B in baseball? C'mon.

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