September 14, 200520 yr No, they were still in New York. Since we are going to talk about the '51 Giants let me throw this out there. They are a team shrouded in mystery. Note: Lost in all the hoopla about the Miracle at Coogan's Bluff is a controversy: were the Giants stealing the signs that the Dodgers' catcher was flashing to Branca? The following is based largely on research by JOSHUA HARRIS PRAGER, writing for the Wall Street Journal. Baseball can be an ambiguous game. There is no clock, no constancy of the strike zone, and what differentiates a "hit" from an "error" is nothing more than the judgment of the official scorer. Although the spitball has been illegal since 1920, groundskeepers often moisten or dry up the basepaths to benefit the home team - and nowadays, entire ballparks are built and reconfigured to suit the star players on the home teams. Sign-stealing fits comfortably in its own gray area, like what constitutes sexual relations - players and coaches alike are always trying to see the signals that are used by their opponents to communicate strategy in silence in the 20 or so seconds between every pitch of every baseball game. Coaches tug their ear lobes, swipe their caps, and adjust their pant legs to hide their intentions, but scouts, coaches and players keep close eyes on their opponents in hopes of glimpsing a pitcher's grip on the ball or deciphering a coach's body language. Runners on second base peer at the catcher's fingers as he signs to the pitcher whether to throw a fastball, curveball or another type of pitch. All this is a part of baseball, but sometimes tactics go too far. In 1898, Cincinnati Red Tommy Corcoran got his spikes stuck in the dirt around the coaching box at third base in Philadelphia. When he tugged at what he thought was a root, he unearthed a telegraph wire that ran to the Phillies clubhouse (where a backup catcher sat with binoculars spying signals and communicating them to the third-base coach, presumably via vibrations from the wire). In the early 1960s, at Milwaukee's County Stadium, star pitcher Bob Buhl sat in street clothes among the fans in center field and peered through binoculars to spy and relay signs. In the 1980s, at Chicago's old Comiskey Park, White Sox batters looked to a flickering 25-watt refrigerator bulb in the scoreboard for pitch tips. Rumors of the worst kind of sign-stealing have always swirled around the Miracle at Coogan's Bluff, but only lately has hard evidence come to light about it. Although Bobby Thomson himself denies that he was the beneficiary of a stolen sign on the swing that won the pennant for the Giants, interviews with many of the players on that team say different. In fact, the Giants stole signs not only during their encounter with the Dodgers, but during home games all through the last 10 weeks of the 1951 season, a period when the Giants appeared to summon mysterious resources of will and talent. 16 players and coaches who appeared on the 1951 Giants are dead, but interviews with all 21 surviving players and the one living coach indicate that the 1951 Giants executed an elaborate scheme relying on an electrician and a spyglass. The electrician was one Abraham Chadwick - he was a lifelong fan of the Brooklyn Dodgers, but he was employed by the New York Giants at Polo Grounds, not at Brooklyn's Ebbets Field. And the spyglass belonged to one Henry Leonard Schenz, a box of a man with a 48-inch chest and 68-inch frame, who was a utility infielder played six middling seasons in the Major Leagues. Schenz was in his last season in 1951, and smack in the middle of it - on June 30, 1951 - the Pittsburgh Pirates put him on waivers, and the Giants snapped him up. As a Giant, Schenz recorded no at-bats and no stolen bases. He scored just one lone run. Most of the time, the 32-year-old ballplayer razzed opponents from the dugout, but Hank Schenz's contribution may have been much more than that. Schenz had been with the Giants 18 days when, on July 18, 1951, the team lost for the sixth time in nine games, falling eight games behind the Dodgers. The team was in third place in the National League and heading south. On July 19, Leo Ernest Durocher, then the Giants' manager, called a team meeting. At this meeting, some players say, Leo "The Lip" (who is credited with coining the phrase "Nice guys finish last") brought up sign stealing for the first time that year. "He asked each person if he wanted the sign," says Monte Irvin, the Giants' star left fielder, now 81. "I told him no. He said, 'You mean to tell me, if a fat fastball is coming, you don't want to know?' " According to other surviving players, enough of the team did want to know. "I'd probably say 50-50," says Al Corwin, a rookie pitcher who joined the Giants that very day. Several players now say that beginning with that meeting, the Giants implemented an elaborate sign-stealing scheme. "Every hitter knew what was coming," says 83-year-old Al Gettel, a pitcher on the 1951 Giants roster into August. "Made a big difference." Jerald Schenz (now 53), the son of Hank Schenz, says that his father occasionally spied signals for his teammates with a telescope from a spot on the scoreboard in Wrigley Field when he played for the Chicago Cubs. "This whole thing began when he was with Chicago," says son Jerald. "They had a spot in the scoreboard at Wrigley. He was out there at times." Robert Henry Ehasz, 16, the grandson of Hank, has a telescope engraved with the maker's name, Wollensak, that he says belonged to Hank Schenz - according to his mother (Jerald's wife) Hank used it to spy on opposing baseball teams. So just how did the Giants accomplish their sign-stealing plan? Their clubhouse looked out on the diamond from high above the center-field wall - 483 feet away from home plate in 1951, an absurdly long distance by Major League standards. Durocher, who died in 1991, told his players that their clubhouse, directly aligned with home plate, was the perfect crow's nest for stealing signs. The matter remained of somehow relaying the signs to the batter from behind a wire-mesh screen in the clubhouse. There were no lights in the scoreboard, so flashing a bulb was out of the question. However, the bullpens, where pitchers warmed up, were in fair territory along the outfield walls. When a batter stepped to the plate, he could look just to the right of the pitcher and see his teammates much farther beyond, on a bench in right-center field. Though they sat between 440 and 449 feet away, they could motion their signals unimpeded. One alleged culprit in all of this is Abraham Chadwick, the electrician who had only to turn the park's lights on before games and off afterward. The work lasted five minutes. The rest of the time, Chadwick sat in the stands in his fedora, smoking cigars and watching baseball. According to electricians who knew him, Chadwick installed a bell-and-buzzer system in the clubhouse and connected it to the phones in the bullpen and the dugout. With the press of a button in the clubhouse - once for a fastball, twice for an off-speed pitch - the phones would buzz the sign. Players won't say whether they saw Schenz in the clubhouse spying, but they recall him talking about the duty. Focused on an object 500 feet away, a 35-millimeter lens like the one in Schenz's telescope provides a resolution of about 0.2 inch. And so, peering through the spyglass from a perch in Durocher's locked office in the clubhouse, Schenz could have distinguished the tips of catchers' fingers spread at least 0.2 inch apart. On July 19, a rainout cancelled the Giants' game. On July 20, Giants beat the Reds, 11-5. The Giants took three of four games from the Reds and on July 23 left for Pittsburgh. Brooklyn closed out July with 10 consecutive wins, and an electrician named Seymour Schmelzer replaced Chadwick at the Polo Grounds - Chadwick had stomach cancer, and after surgery, he returned home to the Bronx. The Giants, meantime, were on their longest road trip of the season, a 17-game swing through Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis and Brooklyn. They won nine of their first 14 games. But heading into Brooklyn on Aug. 8, they still trailed their rivals by 9 1/2 games. The Dodgers beat the Giants three straight. The gap between the teams ballooned to 12 1/2 games. Proclaimed Dodgers Manager Charlie Dressen: "The Giants is dead." Home at last on Aug. 11, the Giants hit rock bottom. They lost to Philadelphia 4-0, and Brooklyn beat Boston 8-1, pushing the Dodgers' lead to 13 1/2 games. But then, everything changed. After losing the series opener, the Giants beat Philadelphia three straight. They beat the Dodgers three straight. They again swept three games from the Phillies. They took a pair from Cincinnati and a single game against St. Louis. They beat Chicago four straight. When evening settled on Aug. 27, the Giants had reeled off 16 wins in a row, baseball's longest streak in 16 years. Thirteen of their victories had come at home. They trailed the Dodgers by just five games. By this time, relaying signs from the dugout, where chosen players could shout code words to batters, was deemed too conspicuous. The Giants were mainly relaying signals from the bullpen. The player relaying would sit closest to center field. After hearing the buzzer buzz, he might cross his legs to denote a fastball. He might toss a ball in the air. He might sit still. The method was based, Corwin says, on "what was easiest to see, what was the quickest." Another change: Schenz was no longer the spy in the clubhouse. He had struggled to decode the opposing catcher's signs. Herman Louis Franks, the Giants third-base coach in 1951, had been a catcher. Like all catchers, he knew signs and how to mask them when runners led off second base. So Franks took Schenz's spot in the clubhouse (and Durocher himself replaced Franks at third base). Some, like Franks, deny that the Giants ever stole signs. Other players are more forthcoming. "Herman would sit in the clubhouse," says Monte Irvin. "He's sitting there with a telescope, and he'd relay it to the bullpen." Adds Salvadore Yvars, a backup catcher on the 1951 Giants, now 76: "He knew how to get the signs. Catchers know what the hell they're doing." Over the first two days of September, the Giants trounced the Dodgers by the combined score of 19 to 3. Mr. Dressen, the Dodgers' skipper, became suspicious. "We took binoculars out on the bench to observe center field," Dodgers coach Cookie Lavagetto told author Harvey Rosenfeld, whose 1992 book The Great Chase: The Dodgers-Giants Pennant Race of 1951 has two pages devoted to the controversy. Lavagetto, who died in 1990, continued: "The umpire spotted us. He ran over and grabbed those binoculars away from us. There was nothing we could do. We told the ump that we were just trying to observe center field. Whatever Durocher had out there, he had a good system." The Dodgers investigated no further. And the Giants continued to win. Winning streaks self-perpetuate. By the time the Giants hit the road in early September, Giants batters had patient, level swings. Giants pitchers had rested arms. The team won 14 of its final 18 road games, including the last four games of the season. Incredibly, the Giants had overcome a 13 1/2 -game deficit in just 53 days and finished the season tied with the Dodgers: 96 up, 58 down. Very interesting. So what's worse......using roids or stealing signs with foreign objects (binoculars, buzzers, etc.)?
September 14, 200520 yr Whats always made me laugh about Bonds is his supporters think there is no way he used steroids...he went from being able to squeeze through a crack in a wall one season and the next he had to turn sideways to go through a doorway. His average # of homeruns jumped 16 from one season to the next...he went from a career high .200's hitter to a mid .300's hitter. Before he hit 73 homeruns, his highest season home run total was 49, and that was the season before. The guy is a worthless cheater, the biggest racist in all of sports, should be kicked out of baseball and banned from the hall of fame. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as TRUE greats. He cant hold a candle to Hank Aaron, who is a true legend and a baseball hero. And if you think that racism is so bad in sports nowadays Barroid, a person like you wouldn't of lasted 5 seconds in Aaron's day. 945224[/snapback] Spike as usual your way off base....Sure he admitted to using the clear BEFORE steroids were illegal in baseball and since then he has not failed a drug test therefore he should not be judged....Facts are facts and he has not tested positve. And the following people are also cheaters in the hall of fame.....Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry (who was notoriously a cheater for his spitball). As for the racist comments, I believe it's actually people are racist towards him and the fact that he believes that doesnt make him the racist, it makes the people who judge him harshly racist instead. And guess what, a lot of people are racist, that don't affect his play on the field. He's a hall of famer, deal with it!
September 14, 200520 yr Whats always made me laugh about Bonds is his supporters think there is no way he used steroids...he went from being able to squeeze through a crack in a wall one season and the next he had to turn sideways to go through a doorway.? His average # of homeruns jumped 16 from one season to the next...he went from a career high .200's hitter to a mid .300's hitter.? Before he hit 73 homeruns, his highest season home run total was 49, and that was the season before.? The guy is a worthless cheater, the biggest racist in all of sports, should be kicked out of baseball and banned from the hall of fame.? He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as TRUE greats.? He cant hold a candle to Hank Aaron, who is a true legend and a baseball hero.? And if you think that racism is so bad in sports nowadays Barroid, a person like you wouldn't of lasted 5 seconds in Aaron's day. 945224[/snapback] Spike as usual your way off base....Sure he admitted to using the clear BEFORE steroids were illegal in baseball and since then he has not failed a drug test therefore he should not be judged....Facts are facts and he has not tested positve. And the following people are also cheaters in the hall of fame.....Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry (who was notoriously a cheater for his spitball). As for the racist comments, I believe it's actually people are racist towards him and the fact that he believes that doesnt make him the racist, it makes the people who judge him harshly racist instead. And guess what, a lot of people are racist, that don't affect his play on the field. He's a hall of famer, deal with it! 945252[/snapback] Actually if I am not mistaken he never actually admitted to using the cream or the clear. He said he took arthritic cream. And no, Bonds is a racist. His comments about "not signing for white people" and many more things. And I dont think he is a hall of famer. I honestly believe they wont vote him in. 945265[/snapback] The Hall of Fame is for performance on the field....not off of it....he's a hall of famer no matter how negatively you paint him.
September 14, 200520 yr Whats always made me laugh about Bonds is his supporters think there is no way he used steroids...he went from being able to squeeze through a crack in a wall one season and the next he had to turn sideways to go through a doorway.? His average # of homeruns jumped 16 from one season to the next...he went from a career high .200's hitter to a mid .300's hitter.? Before he hit 73 homeruns, his highest season home run total was 49, and that was the season before.? The guy is a worthless cheater, the biggest racist in all of sports, should be kicked out of baseball and banned from the hall of fame.? He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as TRUE greats.? He cant hold a candle to Hank Aaron, who is a true legend and a baseball hero.? And if you think that racism is so bad in sports nowadays Barroid, a person like you wouldn't of lasted 5 seconds in Aaron's day. 945224[/snapback] Spike as usual your way off base....Sure he admitted to using the clear BEFORE steroids were illegal in baseball and since then he has not failed a drug test therefore he should not be judged....Facts are facts and he has not tested positve. And the following people are also cheaters in the hall of fame.....Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry (who was notoriously a cheater for his spitball). As for the racist comments, I believe it's actually people are racist towards him and the fact that he believes that doesnt make him the racist, it makes the people who judge him harshly racist instead. And guess what, a lot of people are racist, that don't affect his play on the field. He's a hall of famer, deal with it! 945252[/snapback] Actually if I am not mistaken he never actually admitted to using the cream or the clear. He said he took arthritic cream. And no, Bonds is a racist. His comments about "not signing for white people" and many more things. And I dont think he is a hall of famer. I honestly believe they wont vote him in. 945265[/snapback] The Hall of Fame is for performance on the field....not off of it....he's a hall of famer no matter how negatively you paint him. 945296[/snapback] Except I am not the only one painting him negatively. I dont think the veterns commitee will vote in his favor, and the sportswriters might not either. 945390[/snapback] When i said you...i didn't mean you yourself....i meant you as a member of the anti-bonds club...sorry i didnt clarify that.
September 14, 200520 yr I hate Bonds. But there is no way in hell he doesn't get into the HOF. He is the one of greatest of all time. Not until there is concrete evidence that he used him will his shot be in jeopardy.
September 14, 200520 yr Whats always made me laugh about Bonds is his supporters think there is no way he used steroids...he went from being able to squeeze through a crack in a wall one season and the next he had to turn sideways to go through a doorway.? His average # of homeruns jumped 16 from one season to the next...he went from a career high .200's hitter to a mid .300's hitter.? Before he hit 73 homeruns, his highest season home run total was 49, and that was the season before.? The guy is a worthless cheater, the biggest racist in all of sports, should be kicked out of baseball and banned from the hall of fame.? He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as TRUE greats.? He cant hold a candle to Hank Aaron, who is a true legend and a baseball hero.? And if you think that racism is so bad in sports nowadays Barroid, a person like you wouldn't of lasted 5 seconds in Aaron's day. 945224[/snapback] Spike as usual your way off base....Sure he admitted to using the clear BEFORE steroids were illegal in baseball and since then he has not failed a drug test therefore he should not be judged....Facts are facts and he has not tested positve. And the following people are also cheaters in the hall of fame.....Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry (who was notoriously a cheater for his spitball). As for the racist comments, I believe it's actually people are racist towards him and the fact that he believes that doesnt make him the racist, it makes the people who judge him harshly racist instead. And guess what, a lot of people are racist, that don't affect his play on the field. He's a hall of famer, deal with it! 945252[/snapback] Ty Cobb never cheated... he was a s***bag of a person, but i've neevr heard of him being a cheater...
September 15, 200520 yr I hate Bonds. But there is no way in hell he doesn't get into the HOF. He is the one of greatest of all time. Not until there is concrete evidence that he used him will his shot be in jeopardy. 945485[/snapback] I disagree. The unheard of performance hike after the age of 37(when he had two arthritic knees), his numerous ties to Balco. I think the overwhelming evidence that he used steroids will keep him out of the hall. 945508[/snapback] he could've cut his career short after 2000 and he's probably first ballot like it or not, he's in unless he's caught testing positive
September 15, 200520 yr I hate Bonds. But there is no way in hell he doesn't get into the HOF. He is the one of greatest of all time. Not until there is concrete evidence that he used him will his shot be in jeopardy. 945485[/snapback] I disagree. The unheard of performance hike after the age of 37(when he had two arthritic knees), his numerous ties to Balco. I think the overwhelming evidence that he used steroids will keep him out of the hall. 945508[/snapback] :lol :lol :lol He's getting in whether you like it or not. Like Heckeroo said he was a HOF before he exploded in size. Again you are letting your personal feelings cloud how things actually are. Dan Le Bastard said it best: Dan Le Batard of The Miami Herald said he would vote for both. ?Barry Bonds is the greatest player of our lifetime, with or without steroids. He won three MVPs as a stick figure,? he said. ?I don?t think they were cheating. Something has to be against the rules for you to be cheating. Despite their size, these guys climbed through a loophole.? Buster Olney made an interesting point. He basically said you have to let all of these guys in because there is no way to be certain they used roids. You can't be selective and say "oh this guy didn't this guy did" because there is no way to tell. Oh BTW, poll of 150 writers with HOF votes.......Barry got 80.8% for induction. Link
September 15, 200520 yr Whats always made me laugh about Bonds is his supporters think there is no way he used steroids...he went from being able to squeeze through a crack in a wall one season and the next he had to turn sideways to go through a doorway.? His average # of homeruns jumped 16 from one season to the next...he went from a career high .200's hitter to a mid .300's hitter.? Before he hit 73 homeruns, his highest season home run total was 49, and that was the season before.? The guy is a worthless cheater, the biggest racist in all of sports, should be kicked out of baseball and banned from the hall of fame.? He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as TRUE greats.? He cant hold a candle to Hank Aaron, who is a true legend and a baseball hero.? And if you think that racism is so bad in sports nowadays Barroid, a person like you wouldn't of lasted 5 seconds in Aaron's day. 945224[/snapback] Spike as usual your way off base....Sure he admitted to using the clear BEFORE steroids were illegal in baseball and since then he has not failed a drug test therefore he should not be judged....Facts are facts and he has not tested positve. And the following people are also cheaters in the hall of fame.....Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry (who was notoriously a cheater for his spitball). As for the racist comments, I believe it's actually people are racist towards him and the fact that he believes that doesnt make him the racist, it makes the people who judge him harshly racist instead. And guess what, a lot of people are racist, that don't affect his play on the field. He's a hall of famer, deal with it! 945252[/snapback] Actually if I am not mistaken he never actually admitted to using the cream or the clear. He said he took arthritic cream. And no, Bonds is a racist. His comments about "not signing for white people" and many more things. And I dont think he is a hall of famer. I honestly believe they wont vote him in. 945265[/snapback] let's see... I'm white, he's signed for me a couple times I've seen him sign for white people numerous times hell, his two older kids are half white, as a result of a marriage to a white woman In recent years, which one of his teammates has he gotten along with the best? Dustan Mohr, a white guy.
September 15, 200520 yr I hate Bonds. But there is no way in hell he doesn't get into the HOF. He is the one of greatest of all time. Not until there is concrete evidence that he used him will his shot be in jeopardy. 945485[/snapback] I disagree. The unheard of performance hike after the age of 37(when he had two arthritic knees), his numerous ties to Balco. I think the overwhelming evidence that he used steroids will keep him out of the hall. 945508[/snapback] he could've cut his career short after 2000 and he's probably first ballot like it or not, he's in unless he's caught testing positive 945511[/snapback] he could've retired a decade ago and still would have been a first ballot hall of famer
September 15, 200520 yr I hate Bonds. But there is no way in hell he doesn't get into the HOF. He is the one of greatest of all time. Not until there is concrete evidence that he used him will his shot be in jeopardy. 945485[/snapback] I disagree. The unheard of performance hike after the age of 37(when he had two arthritic knees), his numerous ties to Balco. I think the overwhelming evidence that he used steroids will keep him out of the hall. 945508[/snapback] he could've cut his career short after 2000 and he's probably first ballot like it or not, he's in unless he's caught testing positive 945511[/snapback] he could've retired a decade ago and still would have been a first ballot hall of famer 946332[/snapback] ... sure please dont attack me for trying to defend your boy
September 15, 200520 yr Anyone that thinks Bonds is not getting into the Hall of Fame needs to lay off the crack. I'm obviously biased, but the guy is a definite Hall of Famer, even before his homerun outburst. And again a fan (Spike) talking what he doesn't know... He did not end one season at 130 pounds and the next start at 210. If you watch his progression through the years, he gradually got bigger.. And he did admit using the cream, just unknowingly. Whether he was telling the truth or not, who knows... Fact is, it was done BEFORE it was banned by MLB.
September 15, 200520 yr I dont care if it was not specifically banned by MLB, it was an illegal substance. Tax evasion. The worthless human being should be thrown in prison and have the key thrown away. He deserves nothing better, and he espicially doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. 946471[/snapback] :lol :lol :lol
September 15, 200520 yr I dont care if it was not specifically banned by MLB, it was an illegal substance.? Tax evasion.? The worthless human being should be thrown in prison and have the key thrown away.? He deserves nothing better, and he espicially doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. 946471[/snapback] So then, does anyone who has ever committed any type of crime, or even thought to have committed a crime, automatically become ineligible for the Hall of Fame? Where do you draw the line? Throw out anyone who has ever gotten a DUI? Thought to have done any recreational drugs, such as weed or coke, though without any proof (since there is no proof of Bonds)? What about amphetamines? Hell, Miguel Cabrera probably drank champagne after the Marlins won the World Series - but by your logic, that's an illegal substance for him, so he's ineligible! Throw his ass out! Or are you just trying to find any flaw in Bonds and throw him out because you harbor a major grudge against him?
September 15, 200520 yr Spike has some serious issues. I think Barry must have done something to him. There is no other explanation for someone to have so much hate for someone, when all you really know about him is what you've read in the papers. I'm sure Spike has "coincidentally" skipped the articles regarding all the good Barry has done. Most recently, the little boy with leukemia he's become a friend to. This little boy found out that the great Barry Bonds was hurt, so he started writing to him. Barry was so touched by his story, that he ended up meeting the boy and his family. Months and months ago, Barry told him that the day he comes back to play, he's taking him with him.... I'm sure you just happened to miss his first game back... Barry kept his word and took the little boy out with him to left field. A moment that should have been all Barry's, he felt enough of this little guy to share the moment.. He played catch with him in the outfield just before the game started.. Oh, and this little guy happened to be white... So to compare Barry Bonds to Hitler tells us all that you have some seriuos serious issues. At first, I thought I was just dealing with another Barry hater, but Spike dude... you have taken it to a whole new level and if you honestly, truly believe what you have written here.... there is something very wrong with you.
September 15, 200520 yr Dude, get over it... The guy does something good and you write it off as a PR stunt???? He obviously can't win with you... He could save a family from a burning building and you'd say it was a PR stunt. You are the reason Bonds doesn't give a sh** about what people think about him...
September 15, 200520 yr I don't want this to turn into a discussion on Pete Rose, but it's sad that he is kept out while someone like Bonds will make it in. 946769[/snapback] I'm willing to bet (no pun intended) that Rose directly effected/could have effected with his fault in more games then Barry Bonds did.
September 15, 200520 yr Down with Barry Bonds. 946926[/snapback] That statement was so insightful and witty....it had to be posted twice.
September 16, 200520 yr :thumbup Down with Barry Bonds. 946926[/snapback] That statement was so insightful and witty....it had to be posted twice. 946927[/snapback] :lol :thumbup 947046[/snapback]
September 16, 200520 yr Hmm, Bonds is hitting .220. Nice. 947957[/snapback] Dude... be serious. He's played 3 games, and has been called out on strikes even the broadcasters have thought were ridiculous... This is Spring Training for him.
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