October 16, 200521 yr Pinstripe Swap Shop October 16 New York Post (registration required): "Craig Counsell, Carlos Quentin, Kaz Matsui, Aaron Heilman, Anderson Hernandez and Ron Villone to the YANKEES; Carlos Delgado to the METS; Gary Sheffield and Carl Pavano to the MARLINS; Mike Cameron and Paul LoDuca to the Diamondbacks." It was a post article, cant read the rest obviously because I dont get the post. But it is different.
October 16, 200521 yr How does Craig Counsell come in? JW, that would be a horrible trade for us. And the Yankees are getting 6[mostly young] players for an underachieving SP and an ageing slugger? Meanwhile we give up our 2nd best hitter and one of the pieces of our tattered bullpen. That wont happen, probably a beat writer trying to stir up a frenzy, with what looks like info fed directly from Peter Gammons.
October 16, 200521 yr Craig Counsell, Carlos Quentin, Kaz Matsui, Aaron Heilman, Anderson Hernandez and Ron Villone to the YANKEES; Carlos Delgado to the METS; Gary Sheffield and Carl Pavano to the MARLINS; Mike Cameron and Paul LoDuca to the Diamondbacks. WHY THE YANKEES WOULD DO IT: This is similar to the December 2003 trade in which the Brewers dealt a slugger, Richie Sexson, to Arizona and did not receive a star back, but rather addressed multiple issues. The Yanks would be creating massive financial flexibility, better major-league depth with Counsell and Matsui as athletic utility infielders, and Heilman and Villone in the pen while increasing their minor-league depth with Hernandez and Quentin, who probably go a long way together, for example, to getting Barry Zito. WHY THE METS WOULD DO IT: Cameron, Heilman and Hernandez was similar to what they were willing to do for Manny Ramirez, and Delgado has less emotional baggage and a better contract (three years, $48M left). Plus he proved last year he could hit in a big NL park and flourish in a pennant race. The Mets defray some cost by dealing Matsui ($8M) to perhaps the only viable landing place. WHY THE MARLINS WOULD DO IT: Without a new stadium finalized, the Marlins face a money crunch. By removing Delgado, LoDuca and Villone in exchange for Sheffield and Pavano, they save $18.5 million overall. The Marlins, of course, are familiar with Pavano, who could replace departing free agent A.J. Burnett. Sheffield offsets the offensive loss of Delgado or could be spun again to save even more money. WHY THE DIAMONDBACKS WOULD DO IT: Arizona might demand giving up a lesser prospect than Quentin, though the D'backs upgrade two areas of immediate need: a catcher with offensive skills and a defensive center fielder. Take out LoDuca and that trade may not be that crazy. Here are the other trade proposals thought up: 2 Torii Hunter and Justin Speier to the YANKEES; Orlando Hudson and Alexis Rios to the TWINS; Gary Sheffield to the BLUE JAYS. WHY THE YANKEES WOULD DO IT: Hunter fractured his left ankle and did not play the final two months. But he should be fine. He is what the Yankees need. He is 30, in his prime years, has played in big games, is an exceptional defender in center, is great in the clubhouse and would be a substantive upgrade offensively in center on what the Yanks had in 2005. Don't discount the value of Speier. He pitched to a 2.57 ERA, a .198 batting average against and held the four AL playoff teams (Yanks, Red Sox, Angels, White Sox) to two runs in 18 innings. WHY THE TWINS WOULD DO IT: Hunter is owed $10.75 million in 2006 from the small-market Twins with a 2007 option of $12 million or $2 million buyout. Lew Ford played well in Hunter's absence and Minnesota also has top prospect Jason Kubel returning from injury. They get two players that fit their mode in Rios and Hudson, athletic, defensive minded and inexpensive. With the money saved from Hunter, they could be more aggressive than normal in trades/free agency. WHY THE BLUE JAYS WOULD DO IT: Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi has made winning within the next two years his mandate and the club is elevating its payroll dramatically to do that. The Jays had the majors' worst OPS from their right fielders, so Sheffield is exactly what they need in replacing Rios. Aaron Hill can step in for Hudson and the Jays believe they have depth to compensate without Speier in the pen. 3 Aaron Rowand, Neal Cotts and Jerry Owens to the YANKEES; Sheffield to the WHITE SOX. WHY THE YANKEES WOULD DO IT: Rowand is an affordable ($3.25M each of the next two seasons), superb defensive center fielder who has 20 homer/20 steal possibilities. Cotts is the kind of dominant lefty reliever the Yanks have not had. He had a breakout season: 4-0, 1.94 ERA, .179 BA against, 1 HR in 60.1 IP. Among pitchers with 50 IP, Cotts had the fourth-best OPS against (.527). Owens is an athletic Double-A outfielder. This trade is dangerous for the Yanks because they are gambling on small samples from Rowand and, especially, Cotts, and also that they can find an impact bat elsewhere such as free-agent Brian Giles to replace Sheffield. It may be that the White Sox have to give a better prospect than Owens to balance the trade. WHY THE WHITE SOX WOULD DO IT: They were willing to add Ken Griffey Jr. in season to slug better and now there is a strong belief that their best power source, Paul Konerko, will leave for either the West Coast or Red Sox in free agency. It might even behoove the Yanks to see if they could get in the middle of a three-way trade with the Reds in which the White Sox get Griffey, the Yanks get Rowand and Cincy gets prospects from both (the Yanks don't lose Sheffield in that scenario). Chicago can certainly afford to move Rowand. Scott Podsednik could slide over from left to center, and in Brian Anderson at Triple-A and Chris Young at Double-A, the White Sox have two of the majors' best center-field prospects nearly ready. 4 Torii Hunter and Rod Barajas to the YANKEES; Gary Sheffield and Scott Proctor to the RANGERS; Alfonso Soriano and Bubba Crosby to the TWINS. WHY THE YANKEES WOULD DO IT: The Hunter rationale was explained previously. Barajas would provide the Yanks with an all-around quality catcher who would lower the workload on Posada. WHY THE RANGERS WOULD DO IT: No one should believe the facade. The Rangers, notably Buck Showalter, do not like Soriano. For about the same price, they promote top prospect Ian Kinsler to play second and have a better all-around bat than Soriano's in Sheffield manning what was a weak area last season, right field. Sheffield's numbers would probably improve in Texas' hitter-friendly environment, though his relationship with Showalter might be a reality TV series. WHY THE TWINS WOULD DO IT: Soriano would instantly become the best power bat the Twins have had in their recent run of success. He is not a defender like the Twins like, but maybe Minnesota can convince him to either play the outfield and/or be a near full-time DH. His cost is similar to Hunter's, and perhaps the Yanks and Rangers each throw in a million bucks and/or a prospect to complete a deal. 5 Jim Thome to the YANKEES; Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright and Tony Womack to the PHILLIES. WHY THE YANKEES WOULD DO IT: How convenient. Thome is due $43.5 million over the next three years and the Yankee trio is owed $42 million. This is the crossroads of desperation and inspiration. Philadelphia is desperate to move Thome because he had back and elbow ailments, but mostly because likely NL Rookie of the Year Ryan Howard needs to play first. It is possible that the Yanks are the only team capable of absorbing such a substantial contract for such a dubious player. The Yanks rid the roster of the questionable personalities of Pavano and Womack, and the questionable physical conditions of Pavano and Wright. They meld three risks into one huge one: That Thome is healthy enough to share first base/DH with Jason Giambi, giving the Yanks a patient masher to feast on the short porch. Thome is a good guy, also. Meanwhile, they eliminate three huge mistakes from last offseason, and with Pavano and Wright gone, they could go into the trade market for rotation help such as Barry Zito or the free agent market for Jarrod Washburn. WHY THEY PHILLIES WOULD DO IT: Howard has to play. Thome has to go. Because Randy Wolf is hurt, the Phils could use rotation help, and back in the NL Pavano and/or Wright could be better. The Phils can either non-tender Vicente Padilla or move his great stuff from the rotation to where it might work better, in late relief. Womack is simply the price of doing business. In fact, Philly is so desperate to excise Thome that the Yanks might cherry pick another useful body, such as reliever Ryan Madson or spare outfielder Jason Michaels. Pretty much it's just the writers trying to turn Sheffield into the scape-goat for the ALDS loss because he's the most tradeable player. Link
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield, Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano and cash Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. The Yankees would do it simply because they get to make Sheff the fall guy (which it seems they are hell bent on doing), get out from either Wright or Pavano, and get the centerfielder they so badly want and they get Lowell to be a depth player at first-base (something they were willing to do last season) and Villone gives them a better lefty option than they have at the moment, plus it frees up money to go make a run at Ryan or whomever they deem worthy. Twins do it to get more offense Rangers do it to get 3 quality arms and a blue-chip prospect in Duncan. Marlins do it because they wanted Sheff earlier, aren't giving up a whole lot, and get out from Lowell's contract and get a veteran #3 starter.
October 17, 200521 yr So this is not a trade rumor but rather an idea cooked up by writers? I think you should've stopped reading at New York Post. :lol :lol :lol
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. TSwift I am wondering, because you always propose trading Olsen...why do you want to get rid of the best arm in our system? Does the guy owe you money? Did he hit on your sister? We could probably get Sheffield for Pierre straight up, espicially if they dont sign Damon away from the RedSox, due mainly to the fact that the Yankees(while they need pitching, they also have a black hole of aging utility men in CF and no leadoff hitter).
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. TSwift I am wondering, because you always propose trading Olsen...why do you want to get rid of the best arm in our system? Does the guy owe you money? Did he hit on your sister? We could probably get Sheffield for Pierre straight up, espicially if they dont sign Damon away from the RedSox, due mainly to the fact that the Yankees(while they need pitching, they also have a black hole of aging utility men in CF and no leadoff hitter). Because teams have to want to do the trade with you for it to happen. We could offer Lowell for ARod all day, but at the end of it, it's not happening. Olsen's the most tradeable arm in our system, the F.O. has tried to trade him before, and he clearly has durability issues, plus with Willis and Vargas already in the rotation, I don't like the idea of having 3 lefties in the rotation. If you want to substitute Vargas' name with Olsen's, go ahead, but I think that's less likely, and I also think Olsen has more trade value than Vargas...
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. TSwift I am wondering, because you always propose trading Olsen...? Does the guy owe you money? Did he hit on your sister? :lol Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield, Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano and cash Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. The Yankees would do it simply because they get to make Sheff the fall guy (which it seems they are hell bent on doing), get out from either Wright or Pavano, and get the centerfielder they so badly want and they get Lowell to be a depth player at first-base (something they were willing to do last season) and Villone gives them a better lefty option than they have at the moment, plus it frees up money to go make a run at Ryan or whomever they deem worthy. Twins do it to get more offense Rangers do it to get 3 quality arms and a blue-chip prospect in Duncan. Marlins do it because they wanted Sheff earlier, aren't giving up a whole lot, and get out from Lowell's contract and get a veteran #3 starter. How much cash would the Yankees send us? We would have a great lineup if we got Sheff and kept Carlos. 1. Pierre 2. Castillo 3. Cabrera 4. Carlos 5. Sheff 6. Hermida 7. Lo Duca 8. Andino/Sea Bass
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. TSwift I am wondering, because you always propose trading Olsen...? Does the guy owe you money? Did he hit on your sister? :lol Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield, Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano and cash Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. The Yankees would do it simply because they get to make Sheff the fall guy (which it seems they are hell bent on doing), get out from either Wright or Pavano, and get the centerfielder they so badly want and they get Lowell to be a depth player at first-base (something they were willing to do last season) and Villone gives them a better lefty option than they have at the moment, plus it frees up money to go make a run at Ryan or whomever they deem worthy. Twins do it to get more offense Rangers do it to get 3 quality arms and a blue-chip prospect in Duncan. Marlins do it because they wanted Sheff earlier, aren't giving up a whole lot, and get out from Lowell's contract and get a veteran #3 starter. How much cash would the Yankees send us? We would have a great lineup if we got Sheff and kept Carlos. 1. Pierre 2. Castillo 3. Cabrera 4. Carlos 5. Sheff 6. Hermida 7. Lo Duca 8. Andino/Sea Bass Enough so it's simply a flip-flop of Lowell and Pavano, about $2 million a season. If that's not amenable, than just Jaret Wright straight up...either way, it's flip flopping bad-contracts and the Yankees get out from under sooner with Lowell because his is up after 2007, while the Marlins do it because Pavano or Wright gives them a veteran arm. Flip-flopping bad contracts in areas of need is at least plausable...
October 17, 200521 yr Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. TSwift I am wondering, because you always propose trading Olsen...? Does the guy owe you money? Did he hit on your sister? :lol Taking all those trades and melding it into one, here's one that I'm proposing: Yankees get: Torii Hunter, Mike Lowell, Ron Villone Twins get: Alfonso Soriano Marlins get: Gary Sheffield, Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano and cash Rangers get: Scott Olsen, Kyle Lohse, Scott Proctor, Eric Duncan. The Yankees would do it simply because they get to make Sheff the fall guy (which it seems they are hell bent on doing), get out from either Wright or Pavano, and get the centerfielder they so badly want and they get Lowell to be a depth player at first-base (something they were willing to do last season) and Villone gives them a better lefty option than they have at the moment, plus it frees up money to go make a run at Ryan or whomever they deem worthy. Twins do it to get more offense Rangers do it to get 3 quality arms and a blue-chip prospect in Duncan. Marlins do it because they wanted Sheff earlier, aren't giving up a whole lot, and get out from Lowell's contract and get a veteran #3 starter. How much cash would the Yankees send us? We would have a great lineup if we got Sheff and kept Carlos. 1. Pierre 2. Castillo 3. Cabrera 4. Carlos 5. Sheff 6. Hermida 7. Lo Duca 8. Andino/Sea Bass Enough so it's simply a flip-flop of Lowell and Pavano, about $2 million a season. If that's not amenable, than just Jaret Wright straight up...either way, it's flip flopping bad-contracts and the Yankees get out from under sooner with Lowell because his is up after 2007, while the Marlins do it because Pavano or Wright gives them a veteran arm. Flip-flopping bad contracts in areas of need is at least plausable... How much is Sheff owed?
October 17, 200521 yr How much cash would the Yankees send us? We would have a great lineup if we got Sheff and kept Carlos. 1. Pierre 2. Castillo 3. Cabrera 4. Carlos 5. Sheff 6. Hermida 7. Lo Duca 8. Andino/Sea Bass Enough so it's simply a flip-flop of Lowell and Pavano, about $2 million a season. If that's not amenable, than just Jaret Wright straight up...either way, it's flip flopping bad-contracts and the Yankees get out from under sooner with Lowell because his is up after 2007, while the Marlins do it because Pavano or Wright gives them a veteran arm. Flip-flopping bad contracts in areas of need is at least plausable... How much is Sheff owed? Sheff has one more year left on his contract and is due $13M next year.
October 17, 200521 yr I just dont think that Olsen will be necessary. I really do believe that the Yanks will do Pierre/Sheff straight up. If we want to get Pavano as well, give them two of our young pitching prospects, not our very best one. No need to give up Vargas either. I'd still like to see us ship Stokes to Houston, who will need a 1B in the very near future, and he is a right handed hitter with pop(from what I've read), I seriously think Houston would bite on that one. We could ship him and maybe another prospect and get Adam Everett and then we would have another defensively capable SS with a few years of arby left.
October 17, 200521 yr I just dont think that Olsen will be necessary. I really do believe that the Yanks will do Pierre/Sheff straight up. If we want to get Pavano as well, give them two of our young pitching prospects, not our very best one. No need to give up Vargas either. I'd still like to see us ship Stokes to Houston, who will need a 1B in the very near future, and he is a right handed hitter with pop(from what I've read), I seriously think Houston would bite on that one. We could ship him and maybe another prospect and get Adam Everett and then we would have another defensively capable SS with a few years of arby left. You need a reality check if you think Stokes has any value. And Pierre for Sheff straight up isn't happening because we can't afford to take on that kind of salary and still leave us a hole in center-field (say Aguila and I'm seriously going to scream). The trade that I came up with is likely a pipe-dream because it makes too much sense for every team involved, and if there's one thing I've noticed it's that trades that benefit all teams when involving super-star swaps rarely happen because GM's are hesitant to help so many of their rivals even if it helps their own team as well, plus "too many chefs ruin the broth." With this trade, we get out from under Lowell's albatross of a contract, entice the Rangers to get involved which draws the Twins in as well, meaning we're helping 3 AL teams out, while being the only NL team that benefits, and we bring back a fan-favorite and probably ensure that the Marlins get their first player enshrined in Cooperstown. Big pluses all around...
October 17, 200521 yr Umm, if the Yanks take a nice portion of Sheffs contract, we could have Hermida in LF, Sheff in RF, and just put Aguila in CF. Be saving millions right there, and it would fill the Yanks biggest need. And getting rid of our best pitching prospect(Olsen) is not a good idea because of injury and inneffectiveness of the people on the staff of the big club. Since besides him a large portion of our SP prospects are either minor league retreads finishing up their careers or young kids not ready for even AA yet. We have had many problems with this. Yet, when Olsen was up here he was brilliant in every game except for @ Philly, where our entire staff got absolutely massacred this year, but besides that he showed good heart and was a K machine. Who would you rather have as you first option should a big league starter go down as Scott Olsen or one of those has beens we had to use this season. I'll go with the young guy who racks up the K's. And Stokes would have value to the Astros, a 1B prospect with power that hits righty straight towards that ridiculously short porch they have in left field to replace the aging Jeff Bagwell. Just because he doesn't have value to us doesn't mean he doesn't have value to anyone.
October 17, 200521 yr It'd be nice to get Sheff back. We'd have a great lineup, that's for sure. And Stokes would have value to the Astros, a 1B prospect with power that hits righty straight towards that ridiculously short porch they have in left field to replace the aging Jeff Bagwell. Just because he doesn't have value to us doesn't mean he doesn't have value to anyone. Stokes is no longer a valuable prospect. He's been hurt for too long, is getting up in age, and has not really produced the last few years. Very few GM's consider him a top of the line prospect. He's probably not one of our top 10 prospects.
October 17, 200521 yr Umm, if the Yanks take a nice portion of Sheffs contract, we could have Hermida in LF, Sheff in RF, and just put Aguila in CF. Be saving millions right there, and it would fill the Yanks biggest need. And getting rid of our best pitching prospect(Olsen) is not a good idea because of injury and inneffectiveness of the people on the staff of the big club. Since besides him a large portion of our SP prospects are either minor league retreads finishing up their careers or young kids not ready for even AA yet. We have had many problems with this. Yet, when Olsen was up here he was brilliant in every game except for @ Philly, where our entire staff got absolutely massacred this year, but besides that he showed good heart and was a K machine. Who would you rather have as you first option should a big league starter go down as Scott Olsen or one of those has beens we had to use this season. I'll go with the young guy who racks up the K's. And Stokes would have value to the Astros, a 1B prospect with power that hits righty straight towards that ridiculously short porch they have in left field to replace the aging Jeff Bagwell. Just because he doesn't have value to us doesn't mean he doesn't have value to anyone. OK genius, tell me why the Yankees would do a Sheffield for Pierre trade and still eat some of his money? They're already not getting equal value in return, and for them to eat money, it would take a lot more than Pierre. It's funny that you bring up durability and ineffectiveness to the staff as a reason to have Olsen, but last I checked, those were two of his biggest shortcomings. He racks up the K's, but you know what comes with that? High-pitch counts, meaning that the guy whose upper-body resembles spaghetti isn't getting past the 6th inning any time soon. And Stokes is absolutely worthless, heck, most first base prospects in general aren't what they used to be; unless it's a guy like Prince Fielder who just flat out mashes, first-basmen aren't getting drafted with any great regularity, most organizations are taking a bunch of athletes and sticking the odd man out in the outfield rotation or infield rotation at first base and just making him learn that position. I'll go so far as to say that I'd be surprised if Stokes is on our 40 man next season.
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