If we're interested in Gathright, why aren't we talking about Jeremy Reed? It sounds like the Mariners want to move him for young pitching.. so how come we haven't been heard making a play for him?

 

I'd much rather have Reed than Gathright. The guy is a wizard in the OF.

Agreed. He'd be worth Olsen... I don't think Gathright would be.

Money matters maybe? Pull out his contract, then we will see why.

I doubt it. According to ESPN per http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=sea his 2005 salary was only $316,000 and he's only been playing full-time for a year or so, I doubt it'd be much higher than that for the next year or two.

He has less than 2 years MLB experience.. he makes like $300,000 a year. So I'm not sure what your point is.

 

If Seattle is interested in Boston's young pitchers, they should be interested in our young pitchers.

 

I still wouldn't give up Olsen for him but he brings a lot more to the table than Gathright does, imo.

No Olsen. Olsen should be untouchable, along with Sanchez and possibly Petit. There's just so many pitchers, they can trade others for him without losing any big guns.

No, at this point Olsen is very valuable pitcher for us.

 

Jeremy Reed still hasn't proven anything.

He's proved hes one of the best defensive CFs in baseball... and from what I've read about him, has a great eye at the plate.

 

I think he's the guy we should be focusing on, not Gathright... especially with the way that the Devil Rays work.

Yeah, I'm with Iowa. I have no clue why we haven't heard Reed's name more.

Perhaps your right, maybe we should go after Jeremy Reed, but at what expense? Aren't they seeking Top pitching prospects? That sounds like Olsen to me.

No, at this point Olsen is very valuable pitcher for us.

 

Jeremy Reed still hasn't proven anything.

 

 

 

And Scott Olsen has proved what besides impressing scouts with his "great makeup" and very normal 1.26 whip? Getting Reed would be AMAZING, but Seattle wouldn't be stupid enough to trade Reed for him.

Considering the Red Sox will likely pass on giving up Jon Lester for Reed (and Meche). The same Jon Lester with a higher minor league WHIP than Olsen, higher ERA and drastically less strikeout totals... nice try though.

We shouldn't have to give up Olsen for Reed, maybe they would take Anibal Sanchez.

No thanks.

Considering the Red Sox passed on giving up Jon Lester for Reed (and Meche). The same Jon Lester with a higher minor league WHIP than Olsen and drastically less strikeout totals... nice try though.

 

 

I didn't personally mention Lester, so you should have reffered this comment to someone else. I don't know why you are trying to mock me, but since you apparently think I'm stupid, I will play your game.

 

2005 Double AA stats. Both are 21 years old and lefty.

 

Olsen 80 IP, 6-4, 3.91 era, 10.53 K/9, 1.27 WHIP (H/9 8.40, BB/9 3.02), HR/9 0.78

Lester 148 IP, 11-6, 2.61 era, 9.89 K/9, 1.15 WHIP (H/9 6.92, BB/9 3.46), HR/9 0.61

 

So Olsen DRASTICALLY strikes out 0.64 more men then Lester. You get this DRASTIC extra strikeout production, some less walks and hr from Olsen, but a better whip with Lester because he gives up way less hits. Read into it however you want, but the only huge differance I see with these two is whip. I think Olsen's era is inflated, it could be a low to mid 3.5 era with those numbers, but Lester was still the more productive pitcher any way you look at it.

Defensive much?

 

 

Almost all of baseball scouts have Lester and Olsen as two of the top lefty prospects in baseball... yet the Red Sox won't trade Lester for Reed... but the Mariners would just be stupid to trade Reed for Olsen? Give me a break. You obviously have something against him.

 

Ill give you that Lester had better AA stats but Olsen still has better overall minor league numbers, something you're big on... not that minor league numbers even really matter in the first place. Not really a fair comparison since Lester played the whole year there.. while Mr Olsen got called up to the big show and threw a 3.32 ERA in 4 games started.

 

You obviously have a vendetta against Olsen. Weren't you the one that actually said that he he projected to be a bullpen pitcher?! Yet almost all scouts think he is top of the rotation material? Ridiculous...

Defensive much?

 

 

Almost all of baseball scouts have Lester and Olsen as two of the top lefty prospects in baseball... yet the Red Sox won't trade Lester for Reed... but the Mariners would just be stupid to trade Reed for Olsen? Give me a break. You obviously have something against him.

 

Ill give you that Lester had better AA stats but Olsen still has better overall minor league numbers, something you're big on... not that minor league numbers even really matter in the first place. Not really a fair comparison since Lester played the whole year there.. while Mr Olsen got called up to the big show and threw a 3.32 ERA in 4 games started.

 

You obviously have a vendetta against Olsen. Weren't you the one that actually said that he he projected to be a bullpen pitcher?! Yet almost all scouts think he is top of the rotation material? Ridiculous...

 

 

Lester's numbers are very skewed from his 1 awful year in single-a. You also have it backwards, I do not have a vendetta against Olsen. I am realistic about Olsen. Everyone else here believes he is the top top SP prospect, when he is not in the top top class. He looks very nice, but the great ones have much lower whips, giving up way less hits and walks. Not to nitpick, but Liriano right now is the top lefty, and I would think Sowers and Phillip Hughes would be right after him. Olsen and Lester are certainly strong top 10 ones, but they aren't the top.

 

As for the RP, yea that was me. The best possibly situation for Olsen if he is immediatly brought up to the bigs in 06 is to be brought up like Johan with the Twins. Start in the pen, and see if his 3rd pitch develops. SCOUTS UNIVERSALLY say he has troubles with the changeup, and he has control problems with his slider, but when it's on, it's nasty. If he is going to be a two pitch pitcher right now, let him come in for one inning and devastate lefties. If the changeup develops, or even if it doesn't, let him get in some work phasing out Moehler or Mitre in the second half. This is not an unrealistic projection.

Defensive much?

 

 

Almost all of baseball scouts have Lester and Olsen as two of the top lefty prospects in baseball... yet the Red Sox won't trade Lester for Reed... but the Mariners would just be stupid to trade Reed for Olsen? Give me a break. You obviously have something against him.

 

Ill give you that Lester had better AA stats but Olsen still has better overall minor league numbers, something you're big on... not that minor league numbers even really matter in the first place. Not really a fair comparison since Lester played the whole year there.. while Mr Olsen got called up to the big show and threw a 3.32 ERA in 4 games started.

 

You obviously have a vendetta against Olsen. Weren't you the one that actually said that he he projected to be a bullpen pitcher?! Yet almost all scouts think he is top of the rotation material? Ridiculous...

 

 

Lester's numbers are very skewed from his 1 awful year in single-a. You also have it backwards, I do not have a vendetta against Olsen. I am realistic about Olsen. Everyone else here believes he is the top top SP prospect, when he is not in the top top class. He looks very nice, but the great ones have much lower whips, giving up way less hits and walks. Not to nitpick, but Liriano right now is the top lefty, and I would think Sowers and Phillip Hughes would be right after him. Olsen and Lester are certainly strong top 10 ones, but they aren't the top.

 

As for the RP, yea that was me. The best possibly situation for Olsen if he is immediatly brought up to the bigs in 06 is to be brought up like Johan with the Twins. Start in the pen, and see if his 3rd pitch develops. SCOUTS UNIVERSALLY say he has troubles with the changeup, and he has control problems with his slider, but when it's on, it's nasty. If he is going to be a two pitch pitcher right now, let him come in for one inning and devastate lefties. If the changeup develops, or even if it doesn't, let him get in some work phasing out Moehler or Mitre in the second half. This is not an unrealistic projection.

 

 

Sorry but you lost alot of credibility here. First of all Phillip Hughes is a righty and not a lefty. As for Sowers, he is a finese pitcher which scouts compare to Tom Glavine. He also projects more as #3 and if everything clicks then a #2. Atleast you where right about Liriano though.

Sorry but lost alot of credibility here. First of all Phillip Hughes is a righty and not a lefty. As for Sowers, he is a finese pitcher which scouts compare to Tom Glavine. He also projects more as #3 and if everything clicks then a #2. Atleast you where right about Liriano though.

 

 

tough crowd. Sorry I can't off the top of my head correctly identify every single A ball pitcher that I have read about. My apologies.

 

Please explain to me how Olsen's 1.26 double AA whip is better then Sowers 1.01. Honestly.

6. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Kinston Indians

Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 170 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1)

 

Growing up, Sowers and his twin brother Josh (who pitches in the Blue Jays system) were more into chess than sports. That may be the best metaphor for his approach to pitching?a match of wits. Sowers was brilliant in his pro debut, tormenting hitters with his smarts and excellent command of the zone with four pitches.

 

Winston-Salem manager Chris Cron referred to him as a "comfortable loafer," and "sneaky" may be the best adjective to describe him. While most quality lefthanders get likened to Tom Glavine, Sowers is more like John Tudor, setting hitters up with pinpoint location of his secondary pitches and then blowing an average fastball by them. His best pitch is his curveball, and he also throws an 89-91 mph fastball, a slider with cutter action and a changeup.

 

"He's just so polished," Cron said. "He just commands all his pitches well and finds a way to get it done. Sometimes you don't know how he did it, but by that time you're walking back to the dugout shaking your head."

 

 

Anibal Sanchez was the #1 pitching prospect in the league by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry but lost alot of credibility here. First of all Phillip Hughes is a righty and not a lefty. As for Sowers, he is a finese pitcher which scouts compare to Tom Glavine. He also projects more as #3 and if everything clicks then a #2. Atleast you where right about Liriano though.

 

 

tough crowd. Sorry I can't off the top of my head correctly identify every single A ball pitcher that I have read about. My apologies.

 

Please explain to me how Olsen's 1.26 double AA whip is better then Sowers 1.01. Honestly.

 

 

 

Minor league numbers don't tell the whole story. The minors are basically used to develop players. Stats don't really matter as much. Fact is Sowers is a college pitcher so he should be more polished than Olsen. He relies on control(which is great by the way) but what you see now is basically what you get in the future. Olsen on the other hand doesn't have bad # and is already nasty with potential to be nastier when he improves his control and change-up. Sowers is basically another Vargas but with less potential.

6. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Kinston Indians

Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 170 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1)

 

Growing up, Sowers and his twin brother Josh (who pitches in the Blue Jays system) were more into chess than sports. That may be the best metaphor for his approach to pitching?a match of wits. Sowers was brilliant in his pro debut, tormenting hitters with his smarts and excellent command of the zone with four pitches.

 

Winston-Salem manager Chris Cron referred to him as a "comfortable loafer," and "sneaky" may be the best adjective to describe him. While most quality lefthanders get likened to Tom Glavine, Sowers is more like John Tudor, setting hitters up with pinpoint location of his secondary pitches and then blowing an average fastball by them. His best pitch is his curveball, and he also throws an 89-91 mph fastball, a slider with cutter action and a changeup.

 

"He's just so polished," Cron said. "He just commands all his pitches well and finds a way to get it done. Sometimes you don't know how he did it, but by that time you're walking back to the dugout shaking your head."

 

 

Anibal Sanchez was the #1 pitching prospect in the league by the way.

 

 

I like Anibal more then I like Olsen by the way.

 

Sowers is going to be the next Zito. Olsen.... who knows? Scouts say he is a # 1, yet his minor league record doesn't show that. I think that is important. I don't believe guys just magically get better once the hit the bigs. Johan is the extreme example, and I don't think it is wise to compare him to any double aa prospects. I just don't see it right now with Olsen. If he blows away a .88 whip and maintains the awesome K/9 and HR/9 like Liriano did last year in AAA, I have no problem admitting I was wrong, but I highly doubt he does that. You can believe in potential all you want, but what matters is on the field production in the end. Olsen has never dominated his competition. He has just been very good. I like him, but he does not project to be this monster # 1 starter everyone believes.

6. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Kinston Indians

Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 170 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1)

 

Growing up, Sowers and his twin brother Josh (who pitches in the Blue Jays system) were more into chess than sports. That may be the best metaphor for his approach to pitching?a match of wits. Sowers was brilliant in his pro debut, tormenting hitters with his smarts and excellent command of the zone with four pitches.

 

Winston-Salem manager Chris Cron referred to him as a "comfortable loafer," and "sneaky" may be the best adjective to describe him. While most quality lefthanders get likened to Tom Glavine, Sowers is more like John Tudor, setting hitters up with pinpoint location of his secondary pitches and then blowing an average fastball by them. His best pitch is his curveball, and he also throws an 89-91 mph fastball, a slider with cutter action and a changeup.

 

"He's just so polished," Cron said. "He just commands all his pitches well and finds a way to get it done. Sometimes you don't know how he did it, but by that time you're walking back to the dugout shaking your head."

 

 

Anibal Sanchez was the #1 pitching prospect in the league by the way.

 

 

I like Anibal more then I like Olsen by the way.

 

Sowers is going to be the next Zito. Olsen.... who knows? Scouts say he is a # 1, yet his minor league record doesn't show that. I think that is important. I don't believe guys just magically get better once the hit the bigs. Johan is the extreme example, and I don't think it is wise to compare him to any double aa prospects. I just don't see it right now with Olsen. If he blows away a .88 whip and maintains the awesome K/9 and HR/9 like Liriano did last year in AAA, I have no problem admitting I was wrong, but I highly doubt he does that. You can believe in potential all you want, but what matters is on the field production in the end. Olsen has never dominated his competition. He has just been very good. I like him, but he does not project to be this monster # 1 starter everyone believes.

 

 

I don't know where you get this Zito comparison. Where do you really? Fact is Sowers was already polished and he relies on control. Its very doubtful that he develops into a #1 but its possible. Though Olsen chances are still higher than Sowers. EVeryone in baseball also is higher on Olsen than Sowers. Now if that's your opinion then fine. But don't down grade Olsen or talk bad about him juts cause you don't like him. Facts are facts.

 

 

5. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp Age: 21 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-1 Wt: 175

Drafted: Vanderbilt, 2004 (1st round) Signed by: Scott Barnsby

 

 

Background: Sowers became the 12th player to be selected in the first round of two June drafts. The Reds took him 20th overall in 2001 with little or no intention of signing him, and he went sixth in 2004, making him the highest-drafted Vanderbilt player ever. He held out all summer before signing for $2.475 million. His twin brother Josh is a righthander/infielder at Yale.

 

Strengths: Sowers commands the zone with four pitches and goes right after hitters with an aggressive approach. He adds and subtracts from his fastball while mixing in a plus curveball, a cutter-type slider and a changeup. His fastball features good arm-side movement and sink from a deceptive three-quarters delivery.

 

Weaknesses: He can?t overpower hitters with the 85-91 mph velocity on his fastball. He must further refine his changeup to put the finishing touches on his arsenal. While both of his breaking balls show tight, downward rotation, they can become more consistent.

 

The Future: The most polished lefthander in the 2004 draft, Sowers should move swiftly up the ladder. He?ll make his pro debut in high Class A and could make it to Cleveland as early as 2006.

 

 

2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG

Did Not Play?Signed 2005 Contract

I like him, but he does not project to be this monster # 1 starter everyone believes.

 

In your opinion

 

 

I believe he has top of the rotation potential..

 

..but this "Mariners would be stupid to trade Reed for Olsen" is just ridiculous... imo

8. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Akron Aeros (Indians)

Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 165 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1)

 

Sowers pitched at three levels in his debut season as a pro, opening at high Class A before cruising through two months in the EL and making his final start of the regular season in Triple-A. He went a combined 14-4, 2.37, lowering his ERA at each stop

 

His polished repertoire is far from powerful but nonetheless effective because of pinpoint control and his advanced feel for pitching. He attacks the strike zone and adds and subtracts off his entire repertoire, which includes 86-90 mph two- and four-seam fastballs, a curveball, a slider and a changeup.

 

"He had the best command in the league," an AL scout said. "His changeup just fell off the table. It looked like he was throwing to his children. He's Tom Glavine."

I don't know where you get this Zito comparison. Where do you really? Fact is Sowers was already polished and he relies on control. Its very doubtful that he develops into a #1 but its possible. Though Olsen chances are still higher than Sowers. EVeryone in baseball also is higher on Olsen than Sowers. Now if that's your opinion then fine. But don't down grade Olsen or talk bad about him juts cause you don't like him. Facts are facts.

 

 

 

I don't downgrade Olsen because I inherently don't like him. I downgrade him beacuse of FACTS. In the case of Sowers, he has a lower era, substantially lower whip, and excellent K/9 and HR/9 numbers, even if those two categories Olsen has edges in. 7-1 K/BB in double AA. That is amazing. Scout wise, everything you post keeps saying Sowers is POLISHED at an extremely young age and going to be [future hall of famer] TOM GLAVINE. Scouts say about Olsen, he has occasional control problem with his slider, and at best, will have an average # 3 pitch (changeup). Great fastball, great looking prospect, great firey attitude, but the FACTS say to me Sowers is a better pitcher. I have never understood the fascination with clocking fastballs, and because guys top out at higher speeds, they get the benefit of the doubt in scouts eyes against superior pitchers.

 

Anyways, this is not the thread. The thread is Jeremy Reed. I think he is a great looking young player, and the Marlins have ABSOLUTELY nothing in the outfield besides Hermida, and possibly Willingham if he can field LF even a little bit. Reed is exactly the younger, leadoff presence, fills a position in the field we have nothing at, player this team needs. To my count, we have a minimum of 6 top level P prospects (Vargas, Petit, Anibal, Gaby, Olsen, Volstad). If it costs one of them to secure a huge complimentary piece to Hermida, Cabrera, Jacons, and Willingham, so be it. It's not like Johnson, Nolasco, Resop, Pinto, Allison, Thompson, and about a half dozen others are all going to fail. We have unreal depth, and we need to find a Reed, or a Gathright, type player.