The Seattle Seahawks are facing the Pittsburgh Steelers in the Super Bowl, but they have an off-the-field battle brewing with Texas A&M.

 

School officials are upset with the Seahawks' use of the "12th Man" theme to recognize their fan support. A&M has legal claims to the "12th Man" moniker, a school tradition that dates to the 1920s.

 

Texas A&M contends the 12th man lives at Kyle Field, not in Seattle.

 

The Seahawks have celebrated their fans as a "12th Man" since the 1980s, when they used to turn the now-demolished Kingdome into one of the NFL's loudest venues.

 

The team retired the No. 12 in 1984. Now, a No. 12 flag waves atop the city's signature Space Needle and the team has raised a "12th Man" banner at their new stadium, Qwest Field.

 

A&M's "12th Man" tradition started in 1922, when a student, E. King Gill, was called from the stands to suit up for the injury-depleted Aggies as they faced top-ranked Centre College. Gill never got in the game, but the Aggies won 22-14.

 

The tradition has evolved into a campus-wide commitment to support the football team. Students stand for entire games at Kyle Field and at times, they join arms and sway in unison, causing the stadium to literally shake.

 

A&M has twice registered trademarks for "The 12th Man" label -- in 1990 and 1996 -- that include entertainment services, "namely organizing and conducting intercollegiate sporting events," and products, such as caps, T-shirts, novelty buttons and jewelry.

 

Athletics director Bill Byrne said this week he's received e-mails from A&M supporters complaining about the Seahawks' "brazen use of the 12th Man theme at their home playoff games."

 

Byrne said A&M has contacted the Seahawks about the issue. He said he wrote the Chicago Bears and Buffalo Bills in the past about halting their 12th man themes once the university made them aware of the trademark registrations.

 

Byrne said Seattle, though, "has been slow-rolling us."

 

Lance Lopes, the Seahawks' vice president of corporate partnerships/legal affairs, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram he would not comment on whether the team would meet A&M's request.

 

"I will say this," Lopes told the newspaper. "Our fans have been the folks that have run with the 12th man. It has not been the organization itself. We raise a flag with a 12 on it, it doesn't say 12th man or anything like that. We retired the jersey No. 12 many, many years ago and we've always sort of kept it under that context.

 

"But, in terms of this whole 12th man derivative, if you will, that's occurred in the mass media and the public here locally. It has not been generated by the organization, per se."

 

But Steve Moore, A&M's chief marketing officer, said the school has seen Seahawks-themed "12th Man" merchandise and has no way to know whether the franchise itself is producing it.

 

The team's pro shop is sold out of No. 12 replica game jerseys and No. 12 flags and a fan Web site -- SeaHawkers.org -- offers downloadable computer desktop wallpaper that reads: "At Home We are the 12th Man" and "On the Road We are the 12th Man."

 

"In the normal course of action, once someone becomes aware of it and they understand that you have a registered trademark, normally they cease," said Steve Moore, A&M's chief marketing officer. "In this case, they have chosen not to, but we are still hopeful that they will, quite frankly."

 

The university's last resort is to take the Seahawks to court, but Moore said A&M is not prepared to do that yet.

 

"What we hope is that the normal course of action will work, and that they'll choose to recognize our ownership of the trademark," he said.

I know you have to protect your registered trademarks, but this seems kindof pointless. I could understand if these two were directly competing with eachother for revenue or something, but they have little to do with one another.

 

:lol @ the thread title.

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

 

I'm going to register "Shut the f*** up" then and when someone says it in a public forum I'll sue the pants off them.

 

Retarded? Yes.

 

And yet, by analogy it's the same f***ing thing. You SHOULD not be able to register or trademark certain things. Like words. I don't care how you string them together, unless it's a full play, book, movie, song and/or company (and I'm on the border of company), you should not be able to trademark/register words, irregardless of meaning, venue, commercialization, etc.

If they registered it, technically, no matter how bull it is...it's registered thereby making it A&M property

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

 

I'm going to register "Shut the f*** up" then and when someone says it in a public forum I'll sue the pants off them.

 

Retarded? Yes.

 

And yet, by analogy it's the same f***ing thing. You SHOULD not be able to register or trademark certain things. Like words. I don't care how you string them together, unless it's a full play, book, movie, song and/or company (and I'm on the border of company), you should not be able to trademark/register words, irregardless of meaning, venue, commercialization, etc.

Good example, considering you weren't the one to come up with the term. Also, know one is saying you can sue someone for saying something.

 

The origin of the term the 12th man comes from Texas A&M. That's the point. Again, its also a registered trademark.

 

The Bills and Bears used to use this too, now they don't, TAMU won those fights and they will win this as well.

If they registered it, technically, no matter how bull it is...it's registered thereby making it A&M property

 

 

That's good. I'd just keep using it until the courts tell me to stop then. Registering something so commonplace in sports seeems pretty damn trivial.

 

 

 

 

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

 

I'm going to register "Shut the f*** up" then and when someone says it in a public forum I'll sue the pants off them.

 

Retarded? Yes.

 

And yet, by analogy it's the same f***ing thing. You SHOULD not be able to register or trademark certain things. Like words. I don't care how you string them together, unless it's a full play, book, movie, song and/or company (and I'm on the border of company), you should not be able to trademark/register words, irregardless of meaning, venue, commercialization, etc.

Good example, considering you weren't the one to come up with the term. Also, know one is saying you can sue someone for saying something.

 

The origin of the term the 12th man comes from Texas A&M. That's the point. Again, its also a registered trademark.

 

The Bills and Bears used to use this too, now they don't, TAMU won those fights and they will win this as well.

 

Texas "came up with it"? Hmmmm... Like calling the fans in the stands the "extra guy" hasn't been commonplace in all sports. Give me a break. I don't buy your argument at all.

 

No way they "invented" the 12th man. Let me guess, they invented the 6th man in basketball, too, right? Puh-leese.

 

For fun, I looked this garbage up on Wikipedia:

 

The phrase 12th Man or Twelfth Man can refer to:

 

The twelfth (reserve) player in a cricket team. See Cricket terminology.

The Twelfth Man, Billy Birmingham, in satirical cricket commentator parodies

12th Man (Texas A&M), a tradition of the Texas A&M University football team

12th Man (American football), the fans at an American football game

 

That last point seems to put in dispute that Texas "owns" that phrase. I mean it's all well and good with the courts, but I disagree with this kind of policy. And besides, all I have to do is say "Shut the f*** up" a certain way and it becomes mine. Like Dick Vitale and "baby." If he wanted to, I'll bet Dickie V could "register" it and sue the pants off some other idiot screaming it. Kind of like "Let's get ready to rumble."

If they registered it, technically, no matter how bull it is...it's registered thereby making it A&M property

 

 

That's good. I'd just keep using it until the courts tell me to stop then. Registering something so commonplace in sports seeems pretty damn trivial.

 

 

 

 

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

 

I'm going to register "Shut the f*** up" then and when someone says it in a public forum I'll sue the pants off them.

 

Retarded? Yes.

 

And yet, by analogy it's the same f***ing thing. You SHOULD not be able to register or trademark certain things. Like words. I don't care how you string them together, unless it's a full play, book, movie, song and/or company (and I'm on the border of company), you should not be able to trademark/register words, irregardless of meaning, venue, commercialization, etc.

Good example, considering you weren't the one to come up with the term. Also, know one is saying you can sue someone for saying something.

 

The origin of the term the 12th man comes from Texas A&M. That's the point. Again, its also a registered trademark.

 

The Bills and Bears used to use this too, now they don't, TAMU won those fights and they will win this as well.

 

Texas "came up with it"? Hmmmm... Like calling the fans in the stands the "extra guy" hasn't been commonplace in all sports. Give me a break. I don't buy your argument at all.

 

No way they "invented" the 12th man. Let me guess, they invented the 6th man in basketball, too, right? Puh-leese.

It's not an argument it is fact. Plus, it's Texas A&M, not Texas.

 

In January 1922, Texas A&M was playing Centre College. The Aggies had limited reserves on their squad and several players were hurt. A&M coach Dana X. Bible, looking for much-needed players remembered a student by the name of E. King Gill, a former football player who was helping reporters identify players in the press box. Gill was asked to be available for the game, suited up and stood on the sideline ready to go in at a moment's notice. As the game ended, which the Aggies won, Gill was the only remaining man on the sidelines.

Link

 

Also, in a Wikipedia article talking about the 12th man in American Football...

 

In January 1922, Texas A&M was playing Centre College. The Aggies had limited reserves on their squad and several players were hurt. A&M coach Dana X. Bible, looking for much-needed players remembered a student by the name of E. King Gill, a former football player who was helping reporters identify players in the press box. Gill was asked to be available for the game, suited up and stood on the sideline ready to go in at a moment's notice. As the game ended, which the Aggies won, Gill was the only remaining man on the sidelines. The students of Texas A&M have ever since been known as the original 12th Man.

Link

It's not an argument it is fact.

 

 

Actually it is an argument. I think it's retarded, you don't. Argument.

 

All it takes is two to disagree.

 

I mean, personally, I don't care what courts think about the issue at all, I think it's straight busted they'd actually sue someone over this bulls***. Like anyone would ever confuse the two.

 

That being said, I'd still use it until they sue me. Screw them. Why not worry more about being an institution for learning and less about catchphrases. Who are you, Michael Buffer?

I was talking about that it is fact that A&M came up with the 12th man. I'm sure you will make it an argument...but you have no ground to stand on with it.

 

Question:

 

If a company has a slogan registered as a trademark...it's no problem if another company chooses to use it? It's the same thing. You register and get a trademark so it can only be used by you, and then you fight against anything or anyone that uses the trademark, or it becomes useless.

 

Why not worry more about being an institution for learning and less about catchphrases.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

I'm sure if another collegiate band or something like it used 'The Best Damn Band In The Land', Ohio State would go after that as well. It's the same situation.

I was talking about that it is fact that A&M came up with the 12th man. I'm sure you will make it an argument...but you have no ground to stand on with it.

 

Question:

 

If a company has a slogan registered as a trademark...it's no problem if another company chooses to use it? It's the same thing. You register and get a trademark so it can only be used by you, and then you fight against anything or anyone that uses the trademark, or it becomes useless.

 

Why not worry more about being an institution for learning and less about catchphrases.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

I'm sure if another collegiate band or something like it used 'The Best Damn Band In The Land', Ohio State would go after that as well. It's the same situation.

 

I still don't agree. If it's the actual company motto then what's the big deal?

 

I don't care at all about "The Best Damn Band in the Land." They're not. I wish someone else, like Ohio University, WOULD use it. Ohio State's band only really does one thing really well. After that it's all downhill (their music selection these last three seasons has been balls).

 

These are colleges, their priorities are mixed up when they have to do this crap. And the fact that we stand by and let language be registered: idiotic. That's my grounds. I don't agree with the policy.

 

I don't even see how hurts in business unless it's blatant that it's some bootleg company trying to be another. (Calling your cars a Honza or something of that nature) But actual language should not be regulated, regardless if it's in print.

There is a range of a trademark that makes it stronger and weaker

 

Strongest: abritrary mark-has no relation to the product so it is clearly identified with the company, ie Exxon is totally arbitrary to oil.

 

Second level: suggestive mark-suggests rather than describes some characteristic of the product and so requires consumer to use solid imagination and thought, ie Habitat for furniture company or Q-tip for cotton tiped swab. This is protected and you don't need to prove a secondary correlation.

 

Third level: descriptive mark-identifies a characteristic of an article or service. Usually unprotected unless you can show that a secondary meaning has been reached by the public. Whole Foods market is one example Id say. Also, this says that certain terms while they can seem unfair to monopolize, can be monopolized. Im sure a lot of people want to sell their "whole foods" but often they cant under that name.

 

Last level: generic mark-name of a genus or class that an item falls under and is totally unprotected, ie cant trademark the term computer or basketball.

 

Id say the term "12th man" falls either under the third level of being a descriptive mark since it identifies the characterisic the fans but just as much identifies the characterisitc of the stadium experience and hence the product sold. So the issue falls on whether the term "the 12th man" is identified by the public with TAMU or whether it is usually a generic term for all fans of all football teams. I agree with Buckeye on this because Ive always thought of these terms as a description of all fans and I never knew it was stuck with just TAMU.

 

But in terms of the two not competing, Passion probably wins on this one. Thats because the law does make a distinction where products dont directly compete. It's called dilution. One product can "dilute" the ability of the general public to identify the mark with it's protected product. It's the lessening of the capacity of a famous mark to identify and distinguish it's goods and services. You have to show actual dilution and not potential dilution. So IF it is protected, I think a court would grant an injunction.

Buckeye,

 

Your argument is RETARDED. Quit attacking Passion, because all he has done is state fact. As usual, you have not used any logic and you are whining and bitching like an 8-year-old. Give it up. It's the way it is. If you don't like it, start your own country and make your own rules. You always use skewed logic and reasoning. Now come back with your more than predictable lame insult or comeback in which only you think is witty. We are all waiting.

Buckeye,

 

Your argument is RETARDED. Quit attacking Passion, because all he has done is state fact. As usual, you have not used any logic and you are whining and bitching like an 8-year-old. Give it up. It's the way it is. If you don't like it, start your own country and make your own rules. You always use skewed logic and reasoning. Now come back with your more than predictable lame insult or comeback in which only you think is witty. We are all waiting.

 

 

 

:thumbup

 

I never attacked him. Ad hominem attacks are your style and I'd never dilute to that level (and yet I just did).

There is the lame token insult attempt that lacks any wit. Thanks for not disappointing and being so predicatble! :thumbup

I could have sworn that I heard lots of "12th man" hoopla when I went to the Redskins-49ers game this year. :confused

Wow a pointless lawsuit followed up by a pointless argument.

 

That being said, A&M will and should win.

That's ghey, the Philadelphia Eagles might as well go and sue my high school now since we have the same logo.

I hope A&M takes them to court and loses.

 

You can't trademark 12th man; well, maybe in this day and age of frivolous bulls*** lawsuits you can, but seriously, that's ridiculous.

 

Um, they have registered it.

 

Companies register slogans and such, I dont see how its much different.

 

I'm going to register "Shut the f*** up" then and when someone says it in a public forum I'll sue the pants off them.

 

Retarded? Yes.

 

And yet, by analogy it's the same f***ing thing. You SHOULD not be able to register or trademark certain things. Like words. I don't care how you string them together, unless it's a full play, book, movie, song and/or company (and I'm on the border of company), you should not be able to trademark/register words, irregardless of meaning, venue, commercialization, etc.

Good example, considering you weren't the one to come up with the term. Also, know one is saying you can sue someone for saying something.

 

The origin of the term the 12th man comes from Texas A&M. That's the point. Again, its also a registered trademark.

 

The Bills and Bears used to use this too, now they don't, TAMU won those fights and they will win this as well.

 

Actually "The 12th Man" is still on the Wall of Fame at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Buffalo, as it was the last time I was there a few years ago and has been for a long time.

A&M needs to give it a rest.

There is the lame token insult attempt that lacks any wit. Thanks for not disappointing and being so predicatble! :thumbup

 

 

To quote the Yin Yang Twins: HAHN!?

Is that the best you've got? Pretty weak, I must say.

A&M needs to give it a rest.

 

Seriously, what the hell?

 

None of you have any idea what the 12th man means to Texas A&M. It goes farther than just 'the fans in the stands' as Seattle and other places choose to use it. Until you have been here, or know what it is like to be a part of the tradition you can't just say 'give it a rest'.

 

It's a registered trademark, they have every right in the world to fight this and win this case. You can't just pick and choose which trademarks are worthy of being infringed upon and which aren't.

A&M needs to give it a rest.

 

Seriously, what the hell?

 

None of you have any idea what the 12th man means to Texas A&M. It goes farther than just 'the fans in the stands' as Seattle and other places choose to use it. Until you have been here, or know what it is like to be a part of the tradition you can't just say 'give it a rest'.

 

It's a registered trademark, they have every right in the world to fight this and win this case. You can't just pick and choose which trademarks are worthy of being infringed upon and which aren't.

 

Here's what the hell. I can say "give it a rest" whenever I please. I didn't say it wasn't a registered trademark. They can sue away to their heart's content if it's really hurting all those poor sports fans forced to live in shame after the terrible cruelty of hearing someone else speak a phrase.

 

Sue away. I just don't agree with it. You seem to have some difficulty separating the two.