The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

It would make sense if Loria thinks he will continue to get stymied by Huzienga, local and state officials and not get the stadium deal on the terms he wants in South Florida. That and he believes the profits he would make in a stadium of his own in San Antonio or some other city would be greater than the whatever loss in local and national television deal revenues he would continue to accrue here. All will be at fault down here if a move happens, but I stand by my statement above.

its next offseason plans :banghead

loria wants to get season ticket holders locked in before he dismantles a team that could compete

I don't even want to think about Dontrelle being traded. For the first time that would bring me to the point of saying I don't even want my season tickets anymore. Loyalty has its limits and there's only so much you can accept before you just feel like Loria & co. are just taking your money and laughing in your face.

The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

It would make sense if Loria thinks he will continue to get stymied by Huzienga, local and state officials and not get the stadium deal on the terms he wants in South Florida. That and he believes the profits he would make in a stadium of his own in San Antonio or some other city would be greater than the whatever loss in local and national television deal revenues he would continue to accrue here. All will be at fault down here if a move happens, but I stand by my statement above.

 

MLB isn't retarded. They know why people don't show up to games in Miami. A "death blow" isn't necessary to make Miami an non-MLB city. No stadium is what will make Miami a former ML city, plain and simple. There would be no reason to trade Willis and Cabs if he wants to be a World Series contender by the time he gets to San Antonio. It will cost him as much or even more to replace players like Willis and Cabrera down the road.

The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

It would make sense if Loria thinks he will continue to get stymied by Huzienga, local and state officials and not get the stadium deal on the terms he wants in South Florida. That and he believes the profits he would make in a stadium of his own in San Antonio or some other city would be greater than the whatever loss in local and national television deal revenues he would continue to accrue here. All will be at fault down here if a move happens, but I stand by my statement above.

 

But if a stadium deal is what makes Miami unfeasible than why would he trade Willis and Cabrera to deliver the final death blow to the market? It makes no sense.

 

MLB isn't retarded. They know why people don't show up to games in Miami. A "death blow" isn't necessary to make Miami an non-MLB city.

 

I am not saying it would not deal a final deathblow to the market, but it would deal a final deathblow to the fanbase. If D-Train or Miggy are traded, I think droves of loyal fans will say no mas. Like I outlined above, I think Loria would trade either or both of them to kill the fanbase and pave the way for a move. That is he will be able to point to the paltry attendance numbers and and say this team cannot survive with such low attendance numbers. As the team stands, I think we have a chance of putting together a pretty exciting season and drawing a fair number of fans to DS.

I bet ya. If Dontrelle or Miggy gets traded we will have 1,000 people at the game. Loria is going to get what he wants. Less fans Less people complaing about the relocation.

 

 

 

I dont know holly but d-train is the most liked and largest name player the franchise has ever had. He is the most popular player nationally and locally for the history of the fish really.

 

If they trade willis no matter what they get back, they are only hurting themsleves.

 

Most liked yes, but biggest name ? I don't know, Gary Sheffield was considered by most to be one of the top 3 most feared hitters in baseball when he was a Marlin.

BTW, they are going to have a segment on "Another Firesale?" on Baseball Tonight soon.

 

Buster Olney changed his tune somewhat, leaning more toward saying Miguel and Dontrelle will not be traded this year but next winter is another story. Orestes Destrade (good to see he landed a job on BT) said they are franchise players that won't be moved and also talked about the stadium issue.

What did Orestes say about the stadium issue?

Nothing new. He basically said that the San Antonio option is a real threat to keeping the Marlins in South Florida and that the Marlins need to have a baseball stadium built here in SoFla.

Loria has made his statement. And he'll have a positive cash flow this year. Trading away Dontrelle or Cabrera at this point wouldn't accomplish anything positive and would only have negative repercussions.

The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

It would make sense if Loria thinks he will continue to get stymied by Huzienga, local and state officials and not get the stadium deal on the terms he wants in South Florida. That and he believes the profits he would make in a stadium of his own in San Antonio or some other city would be greater than the whatever loss in local and national television deal revenues he would continue to accrue here. All will be at fault down here if a move happens, but I stand by my statement above.

 

But if a stadium deal is what makes Miami unfeasible than why would he trade Willis and Cabrera to deliver the final death blow to the market? It makes no sense.

 

MLB isn't retarded. They know why people don't show up to games in Miami. A "death blow" isn't necessary to make Miami an non-MLB city.

 

I am not saying it would not deal a final deathblow to the market, but it would deal a final deathblow to the fanbase. If D-Train or Miggy are traded, I think droves of loyal fans will say no mas. Like I outlined above, I think Loria would trade either or both of them to kill the fanbase and pave the way for a move. That is he will be able to point to the paltry attendance numbers and and say this team cannot survive with such low attendance numbers. As the team stands, I think we have a chance of putting together a pretty exciting season and drawing a fair number of fans to DS.

I don't get the insinuation that one must destroy a fan base to move the club. This isn't a club that relies on revenues from fans. They need not prove the point they can't stay here by reducing revenues. Revenues are already among the lowest in the majors and far below what would expect from a market this size. There's simply no point if the intent is to leave, or get a new stadium as it actually is, to destroy the fan base. Limit costs that might resemble goodwill to fans, thus have a negative effect on the fan base, perhaps. But that's to dedicate funds to more worthy efforts, not to destroy the fan base.

Try thinking this not as a fan, but from the perspective of the Marlins and you'll see the fallacy of your argument.

Tell me Howie Kendrick and Kotchman for Willis and Jacobs.....let's talk

Tell me Carlos Quentin and Conor Jackson for Willis and Jacobs...let's talk

 

Lester and Papelbon for Willis? Let's talk.

 

Hansen? No thanks.

 

Still...I'd rather keep Willis here.

 

papelbon :thumbup but not good enough to get willis

The only reason Loria would trade Dontrelle and/or Miguel this year is to deliver the final deathblow to the fanbase so he can ensure than he gets low enough attendance numbers to tell MLB this market is no good. If he were to do this in order to pave the way for a move to another city, it would be a despicable move and he would definitely go down as one of the worst owners in the history of professional baseball.

 

 

Why would they want to leave the bigger market for a smaller market?

 

It doesn't make sense in the long run.

 

It would make sense if Loria thinks he will continue to get stymied by Huzienga, local and state officials and not get the stadium deal on the terms he wants in South Florida. That and he believes the profits he would make in a stadium of his own in San Antonio or some other city would be greater than the whatever loss in local and national television deal revenues he would continue to accrue here. All will be at fault down here if a move happens, but I stand by my statement above.

 

But if a stadium deal is what makes Miami unfeasible than why would he trade Willis and Cabrera to deliver the final death blow to the market? It makes no sense.

 

MLB isn't retarded. They know why people don't show up to games in Miami. A "death blow" isn't necessary to make Miami an non-MLB city.

 

I am not saying it would not deal a final deathblow to the market, but it would deal a final deathblow to the fanbase. If D-Train or Miggy are traded, I think droves of loyal fans will say no mas. Like I outlined above, I think Loria would trade either or both of them to kill the fanbase and pave the way for a move. That is he will be able to point to the paltry attendance numbers and and say this team cannot survive with such low attendance numbers. As the team stands, I think we have a chance of putting together a pretty exciting season and drawing a fair number of fans to DS.

I don't get the insinuation that one must destroy a fan base to move the club. This isn't a club that relies on revenues from fans. They need not prove the point they can't stay here by reducing revenues. Revenues are already among the lowest in the majors and far below what would expect from a market this size. There's simply no point if the intent is to leave, or get a new stadium as it actually is, to destroy the fan base. Limit costs that might resemble goodwill to fans, thus have a negative effect on the fan base, perhaps. But that's to dedicate funds to more worthy efforts, not to destroy the fan base.

Try thinking this not as a fan, but from the perspective of the Marlins and you'll see the fallacy of your argument.

 

I like to think I am looking at this from a business perspective, or as much as is possible for me as a fan of the team. I agree that Loria's main source of profit is not gate and attendant profits at the stadium (due to the lease).

 

A trade of Cabrera and/or Willis this season, the following fan exodus, and the paltry attendance numbers which would be the result would just be a tool for Loria to bolster his argument that the team needs to move. Mainly for the press (low attendance numbers printed in bold compared to other teams and past Marlins teams) and a semi-valid point for moving when Loria talks to MLB officials.

 

It would just be a vile move and a final indicator, to me, as to what Loria's intentions are on whether he wants to move the team to San Antonio or not.

MLB has already given them permission. There's nothing stopping them from moving. They don't care about what a press, that chooses to be ignorant of the issues, says. They're looking for a better situation than they are now. A scorched earth policy would only be an unnecessary step in the process. In fact it may be harmful to their goal of attaining a new stadium here or elsewhere.

Any events that would further alienate fans would not be done to soften the blow if the team leaves, but come as a result of controling expenses and non-liquid investments in a time of uncertainty. It's kind of like taking money out of the bank before a storm comes, you are willing to lose interest on the funds to have it in hand when the bank may not be open (or standing). The side effect is you worsen your reputation with the bank. You didn't do that because you thought the bank's interest rate was terrible or you think they made an unfair service charge that you wish to punish them for. Not at all. You just need the available cash.

MLB has already given them permission. There's nothing stopping them from moving. They don't care about what a press, that chooses to be ignorant of the issues, says. They're looking for a better situation than they are now. A scorched earth policy would only be an unnecessary step in the process. In fact it may be harmful to their goal of attaining a new stadium here or elsewhere.

Any events that would further alienate fans would not be done to soften the blow if the team leaves, but come as a result of controling expenses and non-liquid investments in a time of uncertainty. It's kind of like taking money out of the bank before a storm comes, you are willing to lose interest on the funds to have it in hand when the bank may not be open (or standing). The side effect is you worsen your reputation with the bank. You didn't do that because you thought the bank's interest rate was terrible or you think they made an unfair service charge that you wish to punish them for. Not at all. You just need the available cash.

 

 

Since when? They've gotten permission to explore relocation, but no permission to relocate.

Since when? They've gotten permission to explore relocation, but no permission to relocate.

 

Prin, respectfully, I think your parsing words here.

 

MLB understands intimately what the problems are in South Florida and allowing them to "explore relocation" is simply a first step in a process that by taking that first step, MLB is tacitly endorsing.

MLB has already given them permission. There's nothing stopping them from moving. They don't care about what a press, that chooses to be ignorant of the issues, says. They're looking for a better situation than they are now. A scorched earth policy would only be an unnecessary step in the process. In fact it may be harmful to their goal of attaining a new stadium here or elsewhere.

Any events that would further alienate fans would not be done to soften the blow if the team leaves, but come as a result of controling expenses and non-liquid investments in a time of uncertainty. It's kind of like taking money out of the bank before a storm comes, you are willing to lose interest on the funds to have it in hand when the bank may not be open (or standing). The side effect is you worsen your reputation with the bank. You didn't do that because you thought the bank's interest rate was terrible or you think they made an unfair service charge that you wish to punish them for. Not at all. You just need the available cash.

 

 

rferry they have NOT gotten permission to move, they have gotten permission to EXPLORE a possible relocation. They need 3/4 of the owners to VOTE for a relocation. You are absolutely WRONG.

Since when? They've gotten permission to explore relocation, but no permission to relocate.

 

Prin, respectfully, I think your parsing words here.

 

MLB understands intimately what the problems are in South Florida and allowing them to "explore relocation" is simply a first step in a process that by taking that first step, MLB is tacitly endorsing.

 

Well, based on what Loria has been quoted as saying, it looks like MLB is giving step two a no-go.

Step two can't even be considered until there's a town willing to build a new ballpark to move to. So it's absolutly wrong to say it's been shot down. Every indication suggests Selig agrees with Loria that South Florida is the place they want to be, but they can not stay at Dolphins Stadium and must pursue other options.

So it's correct to say there's nothing to stop them from moving, except, of course, a willing market and final approval. Not an easy task, but there's not a hand in their way blocking them.

 

There surely would be atleast 22 votes to approve a move if that market is offering a publically-financed stadium that allows the other owners to stop subdizing the Marlins through revenue sharing.

The "loss" of South Florida as a MLB market is not really a loss (is the intangible factor anywhere near the $20-30M in yearly revenue sharing transfers?), it's an attractable relocation threat and makes it more likely that any team that may relocate or be awarded to South Florida would be playing in a fully publically-financed ballpark.