http://capefish.blogspot.com/2006/07/count...osmosis_27.html

 

Dug up from this past month, but important as it answers to us that this site plan does indeed allow the DCA to let the Ballpark Project move forward.

thats very good news

thats very good news

so in lamens terms it means the water will be fine so there will be no prolem with the water stuff? What else is the holdup still then?

I would assume if a special taxing district is created, and that's the plan, the county will be repaid out of those $$$ for construction costs.

 

In short the county will be fronting the money for Hialeah.

Very interesting update indeed. Thanks Cape :thumbup

I would assume if a special taxing district is created, and that's the plan, the county will be repaid out of those $$$ for construction costs.

 

In short the county will be fronting the money for Hialeah.

 

Correct, the County would issues the bonds for the entire project and the gap in funding would be covered by the Special Taxing District. The City of Hialeah has been gifted the land which is to be leased (no cost) to Dade County. Dade County will build the ballpark under the direction of the Marlins which will lease the facility. All sides have already upped their contributions significantly since these talks started.

 

Right now I believe County/City officials are close enough in negotiations with the Marlins but they hope to get MLB involved financially with a guaranteed All Star Game, World Baseball Classic Final, guarantee of Marlins financially, and MLB putting in some cash whether it be directly or through a loan to the Marlins indirectly.

Great news about the water plant. Unfortunately, the Business Journal publications just changed over to a subscriber-only format so it will be more difficult to reference/link to them in the future (I am a subscriber and I'll pass on anything I see, to the extent I can without copyright infringement).

 

Capefish - you say that all parties have "upped their contributions significantly" since negotiations started. Do you have any actual numbers from any of those parties, and/or a source? Thanks in advance.

 

Also, I would be shocked if MLB brought any cash to the table. WBC? Yes. ASG? Absolutely. Loan? Sure, to the extent that they are within the existing loan covenants in the league's credit facility. But I can't see them going for a cash infusion, or a "guarantee of the Marlins financially" (depending on what that means)... that's not a precedent that they'd want to set, IMO.

Interesting story, Cape. Assuming that articles that come out in the next few weeks confirm what you've layed out here, that would mean that the risk shifts more towards the County's side and away from the club/league. I could be wrong about that. This would appear on the surface to be better than the Miami plan from the Marlins' perspective, if you're right.

 

The County must have full confidence in Robaina being able to coddle this all together if that is what the new plan is going to be.

table. WBC? Yes. ASG? Absolutely. Loan? Sure, to the extent that they are within the existing loan covenants in the league's credit facility. But I can't see them going for a cash infusion, or a "guarantee of the Marlins financially" (depending on what that means)... that's not a precedent that they'd want to set, IMO.

 

Ditto. There's no way MLB is donating money to this. They'll do everything they can to assist, but as you mentioned, they don't want to set that kind of precedent or else everyone will have their hands out.

Great news about the water plant. Unfortunately, the Business Journal publications just changed over to a subscriber-only format so it will be more difficult to reference/link to them in the future (I am a subscriber and I'll pass on anything I see, to the extent I can without copyright infringement).

 

Capefish - you say that all parties have "upped their contributions significantly" since negotiations started. Do you have any actual numbers from any of those parties, and/or a source? Thanks in advance.

 

Cape - Your silence speaks volumes. Unless you can back this up, I'll take it as nothing but another Internet rumor.

 

Again, I'm very happy to hear that the zoning and water issues are being worked out. This is part of the legwork required to make land development bear fruit. However, this portion requires very little in the way of expending political capital, and it would far better IMO to hear specifics on the funding gap being addressed.

Great news about the water plant. Unfortunately, the Business Journal publications just changed over to a subscriber-only format so it will be more difficult to reference/link to them in the future (I am a subscriber and I'll pass on anything I see, to the extent I can without copyright infringement).

 

Capefish - you say that all parties have "upped their contributions significantly" since negotiations started. Do you have any actual numbers from any of those parties, and/or a source? Thanks in advance.

 

Also, I would be shocked if MLB brought any cash to the table. WBC? Yes. ASG? Absolutely. Loan? Sure, to the extent that they are within the existing loan covenants in the league's credit facility. But I can't see them going for a cash infusion, or a "guarantee of the Marlins financially" (depending on what that means)... that's not a precedent that they'd want to set, IMO.

 

 

 

 

Great news about the water plant. Unfortunately, the Business Journal publications just changed over to a subscriber-only format so it will be more difficult to reference/link to them in the future (I am a subscriber and I'll pass on anything I see, to the extent I can without copyright infringement).

 

Capefish - you say that all parties have "upped their contributions significantly" since negotiations started. Do you have any actual numbers from any of those parties, and/or a source? Thanks in advance.

 

Cape - Your silence speaks volumes. Unless you can back this up, I'll take it as nothing but another Internet rumor.

 

Again, I'm very happy to hear that the zoning and water issues are being worked out. This is part of the legwork required to make land development bear fruit. However, this portion requires very little in the way of expending political capital, and it would far better IMO to hear specifics on the funding gap being addressed.

If my silence speaks volumes, I hope you don't mind that I stepped out today to tend some things and could not respond.

 

Dade County and the Marlins have all increased their contributions, the exact amounts are not available as it is still being negotiated. The Marlins will certainly be above their initial Orange Bowl site payout and Dade County is obviously going to be contributing some more tax dollars due to growths in the taxes that were not seen in the Conservative estimates of 2004. The exact numbers no one knows. I suggest you watch the video from WFOR that we have linked on The Marlins Ballpark News where the Mayor tackles this and other issues.

 

The County must have full confidence in Robaina being able to coddle this all together if that is what the new plan is going to be.

 

County Manager is very much involved in all of this. He was one of the ones behind the Hialeah talks in the first place.

 

Ditto. There's no way MLB is donating money to this. They'll do everything they can to assist, but as you mentioned, they don't want to set that kind of precedent or else everyone will have their hands out.

 

MLB put money forth in DC and they could not pass it all onto the new owner. MLB has got themselves a situation where they are close enough they may indirectly allow the Marlins to close this gap using MLB-derived revenues.

Dade County and the Marlins have all increased their contributions, the exact amounts are not available as it is still being negotiated. The Marlins will certainly be above their initial Orange Bowl site payout and Dade County is obviously going to be contributing some more tax dollars due to growths in the taxes that were not seen in the Conservative estimates of 2004. The exact numbers no one knows. I suggest you watch the video from WFOR that we have linked on The Marlins Ballpark News where the Mayor tackles this and other issues.

I watched it. It was more like a sidestep as opposed to a tackle. That being said, I can understand why nobody is publicly committing to more dollars while negotiation are still underway.

 

I can see how the county would be willing to step up and commit more money, although this depends on the source. Tourism related taxes are easier to sell than anything else, of course, and an improved economy helps with revenue projections to be sure.

 

On the TIF dollars, I'm not seeing $100 million there.

 

On the increased contributions from Loria, his last public statements on this issue did not sound like a guy who wanted to bump up a contribution that he already felt was exhorbitant to begin with.

 

Also, the $64 question of who covers the cost overruns on a stadium that has the potential to be $100 million or more over the initial figures being thrown around in the media.

 

MLB put money forth in DC and they could not pass it all onto the new owner. MLB has got themselves a situation where they are close enough they may indirectly allow the Marlins to close this gap using MLB-derived revenues.

 

Totally different situation. MLB owned the Nats at the time they agreed kick in a token amount. 'nuff said.

I watched it. It was more like a sidestep as opposed to a tackle. That being said, I can understand why nobody is publicly committing to more dollars while negotiation are still underway.

 

I can see how the county would be willing to step up and commit more money, although this depends on the source. Tourism related taxes are easier to sell than anything else, of course, and an improved economy helps with revenue projections to be sure.

 

On the TIF dollars, I'm not seeing $100 million there.

 

On the increased contributions from Loria, his last public statements on this issue did not sound like a guy who wanted to bump up a contribution that he already felt was exhorbitant to begin with.

 

Also, the $64 question of who covers the cost overruns on a stadium that has the potential to be $100 million or more over the initial figures being thrown around in the media.

There is nothing to sell. Dade County's Tax Collector is continuously crunching numbers and the County never has had issue with paying debt. The Tax Increment Financing District currently pays way-below-average taxes because there is no movement there. Once development occurs, the tax base will rise to current day levels. That site has a tax bill based anywhere from the 50's to the 70's easily if not back to the days before the Second World War.

 

As for Loria, Samson controls the wallet much more than Loria in the negotiations. At one point Samson was ready to come up with the extra difference for the Orange Bowl site but Joe Arriola ruined that.

 

Totally different situation. MLB owned the Nats at the time they agreed kick in a token amount. 'nuff said.

 

MLB kicked in more than a token amount. They also helped purchase insurance for cost overruns and helped pay for some site expenses.

There is nothing to sell. Dade County's Tax Collector is continuously crunching numbers and the County never has had issue with paying debt. The Tax Increment Financing District currently pays way-below-average taxes because there is no movement there. Once development occurs, the tax base will rise to current day levels. That site has a tax bill based anywhere from the 50's to the 70's easily if not back to the days before the Second World War.

Well I can see this argument going in circles again so I'll just stop now.

 

MLB kicked in more than a token amount. They also helped purchase insurance for cost overruns and helped pay for some site expenses.

 

1. MLB owned the Nationals;

2. In order to get the lease agreement finalized so they could sell the team, MLB agreed to pay $20 million into a contingency fund to help offset potential cost overruns. In exchange, the city has to pay 1/3 of the parking revenue on non-game days (from which they are expected to recoup the full $20 million). Quid pro quo, not a contribution for nothing; and yes, when you factor in the $450 million they turned around and received for the team, and the fact that they secured the parking revenue stream, then yes, it is a token amount.

 

For you to say that "MLB kicked in money for the Nats stadium, therefore they will do the same for the Marlins", you are making a Grand Canyon-sized leap in logic.