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Current Players' HOF Credentials


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I thought it would be a good time to bring this up. Maybe we could get some good arguments, pro and con, on some of the more prominent players playing today. I think for all intents and purposes, Clemens is in. Bonds I won't comment about. OK, so let's start off with the rest of the players. I will post some names, most of you are familiar and then you decide whether they have the cred to get into Cooperstown based on what they've done up until now:

 

Andruw Jones

Carlos Delgado

Ivan Rodriguez

Craig Biggio

Tom Glavine

John Smoltz

Bernie Williams

Ken Griffey, Jr.

Mike Piazza

Jim Thome

Frank Thomas

Alex Rodriguez

Ichiro Suzuki

Manny Ramirez

Pedro Martinez

Andy Pettitte

Julio Franco

Randy Johnson

 

Which of these do you think have earned the spot? Which ones still need some more productive years to make sure? Which ones do you think have fallen short of "immortality" in your mind?

 

I hope to see a civil debate. :)

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Andruw Jones: With a few more great years, he will probably be. But I don't think he should be.

Carlos Delgado: Borderline

Ivan Rodriguez: Arguably the greatest catcher ever. A lock.

Craig Biggio: A lock

Tom Glavine: A lock

John Smoltz: A lock

Bernie Williams: He'll probably go in, but he doesn't deserve it

Ken Griffey, Jr.: A lock

Mike Piazza: A lock

Jim Thome: Probably won't be in.

Frank Thomas: Should be in

Alex Rodriguez: A lock

Ichiro Suzuki: A lock

Manny Ramirez: A lock

Pedro Martinez: A lock

Andy Pettitte: Extreme borderline

Julio Franco: Probably will just because of longevity

Randy Johnson: A lock

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I thought it would be a good time to bring this up. Maybe we could get some good arguments, pro and con, on some of the more prominent players playing today. I think for all intents and purposes, Clemens is in. Bonds I won't comment about. OK, so let's start off with the rest of the players. I will post some names, most of you are familiar and then you decide whether they have the cred to get into Cooperstown based on what they've done up until now:

 

Andruw Jones

If he retired today: out

By the end of his career: likely

Carlos Delgado

If he retired today: out

By the end of his career: maybe

Ivan Rodriguez

lock

Craig Biggio

borderline

Tom Glavine

lock

John Smoltz

lock

Bernie Williams

out

Ken Griffey, Jr.

lock

Mike Piazza

lock

Jim Thome

borderline, in if he gets to 500 homers

Frank Thomas

see: Thome

Alex Rodriguez

in

Ichiro Suzuki

out

Manny Ramirez

if he retired today: borderline

by the end of his career: lock, barring injury

Pedro Martinez

lock

Andy Pettitte

out

Julio Franco

out

Randy Johnson

lock

Which of these do you think have earned the spot? Which ones still need some more productive years to make sure? Which ones do you think have fallen short of "immortality" in your mind?

 

I hope to see a civil debate. :)

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Andruw Jones: With a few more great years, he will probably be. But I don't think he should be.

Carlos Delgado: Borderline

Ivan Rodriguez: Arguably the greatest catcher ever. A lock.

Craig Biggio: A lock

Tom Glavine: A lock

John Smoltz: A lock

Bernie Williams: He'll probably go in, but he doesn't deserve it

Ken Griffey, Jr.: A lock

Mike Piazza: A lock

Jim Thome: Probably won't be in.

Frank Thomas: Should be in

Alex Rodriguez: A lock

Ichiro Suzuki: A lock

Manny Ramirez: A lock

Pedro Martinez: A lock

Andy Pettitte: Extreme borderline

Julio Franco: Probably will just because of longevity

Randy Johnson: A lock

 

What?

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Andruw Jones Potentially

Carlos Delgado No

Ivan Rodriguez In Now

Craig Biggio In Now

Tom Glavine In Now

John Smoltz Close

Bernie Williams No

Ken Griffey, Jr. In Now

Mike Piazza In Now

Jim Thome Close

Frank Thomas In Now

Alex Rodriguez In Now

Ichiro Suzuki Potentially

Manny Ramirez In Now

Pedro Martinez In Now

Andy Pettitte No

Julio Franco No

Randy Johnson In Now

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Please keep in mind that those aren't the only people to consider. These are the first names that popped into my mind.

 

I would like someone to extrapolate why not Ichiro. Not that I agree or disagree about it. It's that I constantly hear good things about him and since he plays all the way out in Seattle that there may be a bias against players on West Coast teams. Maybe because he spent so many good years in Japan that he won't ratch enough productive years in the States. But doesn't the Hall already honor players from foreign leagues or is that just basketball?

 

Well, I won't go so far as to say Pudge is the best catcher in history but I will say he should be considered just for making the Tiger pitching look very good this year. :thumbup Speaking of which, what about Kenny Rogers? He's sort of hung around the league for a long time, in part obvious, because he's a southpaw. Then those two last performances surely would argue that he still can be useful for any team's starting rotation.

 

Any takers on Scott Rolen, Luis Gonzalez or Chipper Jones?

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Ichiro has only played 6 seasons and he is going to need around 1250+ more hits to be considered.

 

Chipper has the best chance of the three you mentioned, but is a stretch at best. He probably needs 500 more hits and 100 more Home Runs at minimum. With his injury history and age I don't see him getting there.

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FWIW, here are the players HOF monitor points (100+ = possible, 130+ = near lock), a Bill James creation:

 

Andruw Jones 99.5

Carlos Delgado 100.5

Ivan Rodriguez 205.5

Craig Biggio 145.0

Tom Glavine 165.5

John Smoltz 142.0

Bernie Williams 133.0

Ken Griffey, Jr. 209.0

Mike Piazza 205.0

Jim Thome 127.5

Frank Thomas 184.0

Alex Rodriguez 266.0

Ichiro Suzuki 144.0

Manny Ramirez 182.5

Pedro Martinez 193.5

Andy Pettitte 98.0

Julio Franco 58.0

Randy Johnson 320.0

 

I bolded the 130+ players. Ichiro and Bernie suprise me and I still stand by my stance about their potential admission. The number also puts weight on having played on a team that has won a WS, LCS, or DS and I think that definitely boosted Bernie's numbers.

 

Just some more on this, this is a list of all the current pitchers who cross the HOF threshold:

 

1. Roger Clemens 326

2. Randy Johnson 320

3. Greg Maddux 240

4. Pedro Martinez 193

5. Mariano Rivera 173

6. Curt Schilling 167

7. Tom Glavine 165

8. John Smoltz 142

9. Trevor Hoffman 132

 

I think all of those are locks besides the aforementioned Smoltz who I mentioned and I'm really suprised to see Schilling up that high. As of now I don't think he is a HOFer.

 

List of all the current batters who cross the HOF threshold:

 

1. Barry Bonds 345

2. Alex Rodriguez 266

3. Ken Griffey 209

4. Ivan Rodriguez 205

5. Mike Piazza 205

6. Derek Jeter 190

7. Frank Thomas 184

8. Manny Ramirez 182

9. Vladimir Guerrero 163

10. Todd Helton 161

11. Albert Pujols 152

12. Jeff Bagwell 149

13. Admin Walker 147

14. Craig Biggio 145

15. Ichiro Suzuki 144

16. Bernie Williams 133

17. Gary Sheffield 132

 

1-8 are locks. Vlad potentially, Helton no, Pujols is on pace, Bagwell is in, Walker no, Biggio is in, Ichiro potentially, Bernie no, If Sheffield hits 500 he has a good shot.

 

What stats go into the rankings, what is worth what, etc.

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Andruw Jones: With a few more great years, he will probably be. But I don't think he should be.

Carlos Delgado: Borderline

Ivan Rodriguez: Arguably the greatest catcher ever. A lock.

Craig Biggio: A lock

Tom Glavine: A lock

John Smoltz: A lock

Bernie Williams: He'll probably go in, but he doesn't deserve it

Ken Griffey, Jr.: A lock

Mike Piazza: A lock

Jim Thome: Probably won't be in.

Frank Thomas: Should be in

Alex Rodriguez: A lock

Ichiro Suzuki: A lock

Manny Ramirez: A lock

Pedro Martinez: A lock

Andy Pettitte: Extreme borderline

Julio Franco: Probably will just because of longevity

Randy Johnson: A lock

 

What?

 

Ichiro played 10 seasons in Japan, and won 6 batting titles. You could argue that had he played in America in those seasons, he would've been close to 3,000 hits, with about 160 home runs. I think he's a lock for the HOF.

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Andruw Jones maybe

Carlos Delgado no

Ivan Rodriguez yes

Craig Biggio maybe

Tom Glavine yes

John Smoltz yes

Bernie Williams no

Ken Griffey, Jr. yes

Mike Piazza no

Jim Thome no

Frank Thomas yes

Alex Rodriguez maybe

Ichiro Suzuki no

Manny Ramirez maybe

Pedro Martinez no

Andy Pettitte no

Julio Franco no

Randy Johnson yes

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Andruw Jones maybe... needs a few more years

Carlos Delgado his numbers are just about there I say yes with 3 more productive yrs

Ivan Rodriguez 1st ballot lock

Craig Biggio no

Tom Glavine yes

John Smoltz no

Bernie Williams Numbers just came up short NO

Ken Griffey, Jr. 1st ballot lock

Mike Piazza yes Best hitting catcher ever

Jim Thome close to 500 HRs may end up with 600 dingers yes

Frank Thomas yes

Alex Rodriguez yes

Ichiro Suzuki yes

Manny Ramirez yes

Pedro Martinez 206 W's might not be enough No

Andy Pettitte no

Julio Franco no

Randy Johnson yes

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Anyone who says Pedro Martinez and Craig Biggio are not HOFers, clearly does not know what they're talking about.

 

First off, Craig Biggio is 31st on the all-time hit list. Everyone above him sans Rafael Palmeiro and Rickey Henderson are Hall of Famers. Everyone above him is a signature player of his generation. 14 of the 20 guys below him on the list are HOFers or locks for the HOF.

 

One more season and he will be in the Top 20 all-time. TOP 20!

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/H_career.shtml

 

As for Pedro, he probably won't be a 300 game winner, but between 1997 and 2003 it can be argued he had one of the most dominant periods of all-time post Deadball Era, in a time when offense was at it's all-time peak and home runs were going out at an alarming rate.

 

Sandy Koufax put up similar numbers between 62-66 in a period where the pitcher dominated.

 

Anyone who was around during those years, knows when Pedro was on the mound it was almost a guaranteed loss.

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Miguel Cabrera?

 

 

IF he keeps it stays on this pace for another 15 years and continues to get better each year, he will be considered one of the 10 greatest hitters in NL history.

 

It is important to remember he's only 23 years old. He's probably got another 14 productive years ahead of him, barring a freak injury.

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Andruw Jones- Could use a few more years yet. He's still surprisingly young.

Carlos Delgado- Not yet.

Ivan Rodriguez- Lock

Craig Biggio- Probably in.

Tom Glavine- Should make it.

John Smoltz- Hard to say, due to his years as a closer.

Bernie Williams- Is going to fall just short, like Will Clark or Al Oliver.

Ken Griffey, Jr.- In.

Mike Piazza- Lock.

Jim Thome- Not yet.

Frank Thomas- Borderline.

Alex Rodriguez- Very close to a lock.

Ichiro Suzuki- Doubtful, just because he entered MLB at 30.

Manny Ramirez- Yes.

Pedro Martinez- Of course.

Andy Pettitte- Possibly...

Julio Franco- No.

Randy Johnson- Yes.

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Andruw Jones- In

Carlos Delgado- Borderline

Ivan Rodriguez- In

Craig Biggio- In

Jeff Kent - In

Tom Glavine- In

John Smoltz- In

Bernie Williams- Borderline

Ken Griffey, Jr.- In

Mike Piazza- In

Jim Thome- Borderline

Frank Thomas- Borderline

Alex Rodriguez- In

Ichiro Suzuki- No

Manny Ramirez- In

Pedro Martinez- In

Andy Pettitte- Borderline

Julio Franco- No

Randy Johnson- In

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Anyone who says Pedro Martinez and Craig Biggio are not HOFers, clearly does not know what they're talking about.

 

First off, Craig Biggio is 31st on the all-time hit list. Everyone above him sans Rafael Palmeiro and Rickey Henderson are Hall of Famers. Everyone above him is a signature player of his generation. 14 of the 20 guys below him on the list are HOFers or locks for the HOF.

 

One more season and he will be in the Top 20 all-time. TOP 20!

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/H_career.shtml

 

As for Pedro, he probably won't be a 300 game winner, but between 1997 and 2003 it can be argued he had one of the most dominant periods of all-time post Deadball Era, in a time when offense was at it's all-time peak and home runs were going out at an alarming rate.

 

Sandy Koufax put up similar numbers between 62-66 in a period where the pitcher dominated.

 

Anyone who was around during those years, knows when Pedro was on the mound it was almost a guaranteed loss.

 

Biggio does have 2930 hits, every player that has achieved 3000 hits have gone into the hall (except Pete Rose ofcourse), I am not thrilled with the career .283 average he has hit with good pop as a 2nd baseman (281 hr) and good OBP He has made career numbers mostly out of longevity. He wouldn't be the first one

I guess he might get in but it won't be easy for him

 

Pedro has the low Era and almost 3000 Ks but i really believed his career is over. He was dominant for a very good period of time but the Koufax selection scenerio may never be seen again 206-92 is an excellent winning percentage but also tells he was not a durable baseball player...unless he develops diabetes in the near future. I would have to compare him to Guidry in a way who hasn't made it in to the hall. Pedro strikeout number are overwhelming that by itself might take him in to the Hall

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