Shaq fires back at Jackson

BY ISRAEL GUTIERREZ

igutirrez@MiamiHerald.com

 

Not since the first Christmas Day meeting two seasons ago have there been any real fireworks between former teammates Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal.

 

So this season, it seemed like Lakers coach Phil Jackson stepped in to start a brief show.

 

Answering a question about Bryant's work ethic Sunday, Jackson said the only great player he coached who didn't like to work was O'Neal.

 

''I know [Heat coach]Pat [ Riley] got him working in Miami, but we had a hard time getting him to work,'' Jackson said.

 

O'Neal had a quick response for his former coach.

 

''How can Benedict Arnold be reliable in what he says?'' O'Neal said after the Heat's 101-85 victory over the Lakers on Monday.

 

O'Neal's turncoat statement was in reference of Jackson leaving Los Angeles the same season as O'Neal, only to return a year later and coach the Bryant-led Lakers.

 

Jackson did mention that O'Neal has worked hard since being traded to Miami in 2004. And Riley agreed.

 

''I mean, he's been great here, with me,'' Riley said. ``I mean, those are [Jackson's] feelings. I don't have much to comment on. But he's done everything that he can for us, he really has. Very rarely ever misses practice. When he works, he works hard in practice. He completes everything. When he's injured, he rehabs. He's been very attentive to try to keep his weight. I mean he's a very big man. A lot of G-forces there when he's running. He's been great here.''

 

As for when O'Neal will return to show the benefit of that work remains unclear, with Riley being as vague as ever.

 

''I think somewhere in January,'' Riley said. ``And, again, we're not going to rush anything. Maybe after the first of the year, I can't even tell, I haven't talked to the doctors yet, but somewhere in that period of time, maybe he'll get back to some court action. I'll definitely have to reacquaint him to some of our system things that we've changed or updated, offense. So, it'll be a process there, first, mentally, before physical activity starts.''

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/16318119.htm

Can't argue with what the man is saying. One year Philly boy is writing a book about how Kobe is "uncoachable" and the next he's back on the sideline...coaching Kobe.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Phil Jackson is a living legend.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

 

 

 

what does that make pat riley?

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

lol

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

 

 

 

what does that make pat riley?

 

You could argue that for Riley's wins in LA.

 

But I think his ability to make the Knicks and the Heat title contenders with really only marginal talent is more impressive than what Jackson did. Ewing might be the most overrated player ever, partly because he was in NY. He was one of the top 3 centers or so at the time, but the rest of the team really was not that good Then the Knicks got Sprewell and Houston, but Ewing was on the decline and neither Sprewell nor Houston were superstars. So Riley had the Knicks in the thick of things without a lot of talent.

 

The same goes with the Mourning-Hardaway Heat.

 

Finally, the championship last year is probably the most impressive. Yes, he had Wade who was one of the best in the league, but Shaq was declining. Outside of those two, the Heat don't have a league-average starter. Combine that with league that no longer favors Riley's style and Shaq's post-game, and I think you have an impressive feat that Jackson really hasn't come close to matching.

 

With that said, Jackson hasn't had an opportunity to prove his coaching ability the way Riley has because he has always had the best the player in the league. Also, Riley is a terrible gm. But as far as coaching alone, I think Riley is better.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

you realize that during the period you speak of....the East was very, very weak. Weaker than they are now.

 

The Knicks and Heat were in the top half of the East before and after Riley. He still won nothing with them.

 

 

I really dont want to get much into last year's team, but they did have 3 hall of famers on that team, if you want to assume Wade will continue on the path he is on and become one.

 

 

Sure Shaq was declining, but he was still a force to be dealt with and allowed Wade free reign to the hoop more often than not. Its not like defenders could sag off and forget about Shaq....

what jackson said was truth - o'neal was notorious in LA for having a very laid back work ethic, scheduling surgeries to miss camp, etc

 

nothing but facts

you realize that during the period you speak of....the East was very, very weak. Weaker than they are now.

 

The Knicks and Heat were in the top half of the East before and after Riley. He still won nothing with them.

 

 

I really dont want to get much into last year's team, but they did have 3 hall of famers on that team, if you want to assume Wade will continue on the path he is on and become one.

 

 

Sure Shaq was declining, but he was still a force to be dealt with and allowed Wade free reign to the hoop more often than not. Its not like defenders could sag off and forget about Shaq....

3? More like 4.

you realize that during the period you speak of....the East was very, very weak. Weaker than they are now.

 

The Knicks and Heat were in the top half of the East before and after Riley. He still won nothing with them.

 

 

I really dont want to get much into last year's team, but they did have 3 hall of famers on that team, if you want to assume Wade will continue on the path he is on and become one.

 

 

Sure Shaq was declining, but he was still a force to be dealt with and allowed Wade free reign to the hoop more often than not. Its not like defenders could sag off and forget about Shaq....

3? More like 4.

 

who did i forget...oh ya mourning.

 

i guess he'll be one.

 

further proves my point.

you realize that during the period you speak of....the East was very, very weak. Weaker than they are now.

 

The Knicks and Heat were in the top half of the East before and after Riley. He still won nothing with them.

 

 

I really dont want to get much into last year's team, but they did have 3 hall of famers on that team, if you want to assume Wade will continue on the path he is on and become one.

 

 

Sure Shaq was declining, but he was still a force to be dealt with and allowed Wade free reign to the hoop more often than not. Its not like defenders could sag off and forget about Shaq....

3? More like 4.

 

who did i forget...oh ya mourning.

 

i guess he'll be one.

 

further proves my point.

 

You could make the arguement very easily that riley built the heat from nothing. He is whom moved guys off to get mourning and Hardaway. But, I agree with you overall that the arguement for Riley and Jackson could be the same. I would be happy with either as my coach.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

 

 

 

what does that make pat riley?

 

You could argue that for Riley's wins in LA.

 

But I think his ability to make the Knicks and the Heat title contenders with really only marginal talent is more impressive than what Jackson did. Ewing might be the most overrated player ever, partly because he was in NY. He was one of the top 3 centers or so at the time, but the rest of the team really was not that good Then the Knicks got Sprewell and Houston, but Ewing was on the decline and neither Sprewell nor Houston were superstars. So Riley had the Knicks in the thick of things without a lot of talent.

 

The same goes with the Mourning-Hardaway Heat.

 

Finally, the championship last year is probably the most impressive. Yes, he had Wade who was one of the best in the league, but Shaq was declining. Outside of those two, the Heat don't have a league-average starter. Combine that with league that no longer favors Riley's style and Shaq's post-game, and I think you have an impressive feat that Jackson really hasn't come close to matching.

 

With that said, Jackson hasn't had an opportunity to prove his coaching ability the way Riley has because he has always had the best the player in the league. Also, Riley is a terrible gm. But as far as coaching alone, I think Riley is better.

 

Riley never coached the Knicks with Sprewell, or Houston.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

I didn't mind trading Shaq. Odom is (arguably) better player then O'Neal 2 years later, and Brown (who we got for Butler) has been pretty decent.

 

I don't think anything could have stopped the Kobe/Shaw food. Anybody with 9 titles is a good coach.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

I didn't mind trading Shaq. Odom is (arguably) better player then O'Neal 2 years later, and Brown (who we got for Butler) has been pretty decent.

 

I don't think anything could have stopped the Kobe/Shaw food. Anybody with 9 titles is a good coach.

 

Odom will NEVER in his prime have as big of an impact as Shaquille O'Neal will even in his mid-30's. Miami robbed the Lakers. They gave them Odom, who was good but was never going to evolve into a top-tier

player. The gave them Butler - who was traded a year later. And threw in Brian Grant's bloated contract along with a draft pick. The Lakers were stupid to give up Shaq for so little. Worst trade in history. Well, not for me or any other Heat fans. Miami raised a banner. The only thing the Lakers are going to be raising from now on are ticket prices.

you realize that during the period you speak of....the East was very, very weak. Weaker than they are now.

 

The Knicks and Heat were in the top half of the East before and after Riley. He still won nothing with them.

 

 

I really dont want to get much into last year's team, but they did have 3 hall of famers on that team, if you want to assume Wade will continue on the path he is on and become one.

 

 

Sure Shaq was declining, but he was still a force to be dealt with and allowed Wade free reign to the hoop more often than not. Its not like defenders could sag off and forget about Shaq....

 

the thing is he literally built the Heat. the heat were nothing before he got here and suddenly he had us in the playoffs year after year and constantly mentioned among the contenders because of the moves he made, he made the Heat relevant. ill even say that arena is his. so yeah he's won with great players but he's also shown he can build teams from nothing.

 

not that im taking anything away from Phil Jackson.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

I didn't mind trading Shaq. Odom is (arguably) better player then O'Neal 2 years later, and Brown (who we got for Butler) has been pretty decent.

 

I don't think anything could have stopped the Kobe/Shaw food. Anybody with 9 titles is a good coach.

 

Odom will NEVER in his prime have as big of an impact as Shaquille O'Neal will even in his mid-30's. Miami robbed the Lakers. They gave them Odom, who was good but was never going to evolve into a top-tier

player. The gave them Butler - who was traded a year later. And threw in Brian Grant's bloated contract along with a draft pick. The Lakers were stupid to give up Shaq for so little. Worst trade in history. Well, not for me or any other Heat fans. Miami raised a banner. The only thing the Lakers are going to be raising from now on are ticket prices.

Odom averaged 15 PPG, 9 RPG, and 6 APG last year.

This year he is averaging 18 PPG, 9 RPG, and 6 APG.

 

He is the perfect compliment to Kobe.

 

Again, the Lakers are 18-10 this year. I think they are doing just fine. Kobe and Lamar will get a ring before it's all said and done. Maybe more then 1.

Kobe and Lamar will get a ring before it's all said and done. Maybe more then 1.

 

Not aslong as the Suns, Spurs, and Mavericks have the same core players they have now. You can even throw Denver in there.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

I didn't mind trading Shaq. Odom is (arguably) better player then O'Neal 2 years later, and Brown (who we got for Butler) has been pretty decent.

 

I don't think anything could have stopped the Kobe/Shaw food. Anybody with 9 titles is a good coach.

 

Odom will NEVER in his prime have as big of an impact as Shaquille O'Neal will even in his mid-30's. Miami robbed the Lakers. They gave them Odom, who was good but was never going to evolve into a top-tier

player. The gave them Butler - who was traded a year later. And threw in Brian Grant's bloated contract along with a draft pick. The Lakers were stupid to give up Shaq for so little. Worst trade in history. Well, not for me or any other Heat fans. Miami raised a banner. The only thing the Lakers are going to be raising from now on are ticket prices.

 

 

Where exactly would the Lakers have traded Shaq? Their hands were just a bit tied. The deal centered on Odom, who has worked out for the Lakers. The relationship between the Lakers and Kobe/Shaq was over. The Lakers decided that Kobe would be the face of their franchise, so they had to trade Shaq. The Lakers hands were tied and they got a pretty nice package for Shaq. There have been far worse trades in league history and just shows how little you know about the league.

 

Kobe and Lamar will get a ring before it's all said and done. Maybe more then 1.

 

Not aslong as the Suns, Spurs, and Mavericks have the same core players they have now. You can even throw Denver in there.

 

 

Denver has proven nothing.

Phil Jackson is an overrated loser who was lucky to win championships

cuz he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his teams.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Phil Jackson is a joke.

 

First he wins a bunch of championships with Michael Jordan, and then he wins a bunch of championships with Kobe Bryant and Shaq. It doesn't matter who the coach is, if you have a team with those players you're going to win championships. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more, nothing less.

hahaha.... puhhhlease

 

Jackson should be in the HOF for managing those egos, let alone winning with them

You can't even make that argument, becuase he WASN'T even able to manage their egos. He did an awful job handling the ego's of Kobe and Shaq and allowed the several year long feud to spiral out of control and beyond the breaking point eventually leading to the trade of the most dominant player in the league and his own resignation. If he controlled their ego's, Shaq would still be with the Lakers, Phil never would have resigned, and they probably would have had a lot more than just 3 championships.

I didn't mind trading Shaq. Odom is (arguably) better player then O'Neal 2 years later, and Brown (who we got for Butler) has been pretty decent.

 

I don't think anything could have stopped the Kobe/Shaw food. Anybody with 9 titles is a good coach.

 

Odom will NEVER in his prime have as big of an impact as Shaquille O'Neal will even in his mid-30's. Miami robbed the Lakers. They gave them Odom, who was good but was never going to evolve into a top-tier

player. The gave them Butler - who was traded a year later. And threw in Brian Grant's bloated contract along with a draft pick. The Lakers were stupid to give up Shaq for so little. Worst trade in history. Well, not for me or any other Heat fans. Miami raised a banner. The only thing the Lakers are going to be raising from now on are ticket prices.

 

 

Where exactly would the Lakers have traded Shaq? Their hands were just a bit tied. The deal centered on Odom, who has worked out for the Lakers. The relationship between the Lakers and Kobe/Shaq was over. The Lakers decided that Kobe would be the face of their franchise, so they had to trade Shaq. The Lakers hands were tied and they got a pretty nice package for Shaq. There have been far worse trades in league history and just shows how little you know about the league.

 

Kobe and Lamar will get a ring before it's all said and done. Maybe more then 1.

 

Not aslong as the Suns, Spurs, and Mavericks have the same core players they have now. You can even throw Denver in there.

 

 

Denver has proven nothing.

You are correct, sir!

Where exactly would the Lakers have traded Shaq? Their hands were just a bit tied. The deal centered on Odom, who has worked out for the Lakers. The relationship between the Lakers and Kobe/Shaq was over. The Lakers decided that Kobe would be the face of their franchise, so they had to trade Shaq. The Lakers hands were tied and they got a pretty nice package for Shaq. There have been far worse trades in league history and just shows how little you know about the league.

It worked out nice? No playoffs in 04 and eliminated in the first round as the 7th seed last season (in a tougher conference, I'll give you that.) This year they're doing good, but are they going to be much better or make it much farther? I doubt it. Not in that conference. And I agree, Odom is a nice player, but to say that he or anyone else LA acquired for Shaq makes the deal worth while? Blehhh. I was giving my opinion, no need to get snappy and question how little or how much I know about the NBA. Are you some kind of Laker apologist? Maybe a bitter Mavericks fans? Sheesh. Well, since I don't know much...enlighten me. Worse trade than the LA/Miami trade? :whistle

 

Denver has proven nothing.

 

They haven't. I agree with that. BUT they just acquired Iverson and are a few weeks from getting Melo and Camby back, JR Smith also. They're going to be better than the Lakers, whether it be this year or next when the pieces are in place for a full season. Right now they don't belong in the conversation with Phoenix, Dallas, or San An. When I said Denver I didn't mean right now at this point in time.