Sean West-S- Marlins Mar. 3 - 9:06 pm et

 

 

Marlins prospect Sean West is scheduled to visit Dr. James Andrews for another examination of his sore left shoulder.

 

A recent MRI revealed only inflammation. The Marlins will be hoping that Andrews finds nothing more.

Source: Marlins.mlb.com

 

:nailbite

Ugh..

Are you serious? When is this gonna end?

:banghead

lol amazing

:pray I hope it is nothing too serious.

Do we need a Pitching-Injuries-O-Meter?

 

And this is yet another reason why building an organization solely around pitching is a bad idea.

And this is yet another reason why building an organization solely around pitching is a bad idea.

We have a winner.

 

Not only are we devoid of hitters, but we are ranked dead-last in hitting prospects.

When it rains, it pours

we are snake bitten this year

And this is yet another reason why building an organization solely around pitching is a bad idea.

 

 

Taking the other prospective though, couldn't you say that this is why you build around pitching? Pitchers get hurt. Having great depth at all levels with pitchers like we do means when a pitcher gets hurt, someone else is available to step up.

 

Most clubs don't have this luxury, if a rotation pitcher goes down, they are screwed, but starting next year we will have possibly 10 different guys who could start in just about any organization: DTrain,JJ, Olsen, Nolasco,Sanchez,Volstad, Gaby,West(maybe the only stretch to be available to start next year), Sinkbeil, Vanden Hurk..and it goes on.

 

One injury in the majors (JJ) or minors (West) doesn't destroy our team and finances like it would so many others. I wouldn't mind seeing us draft another pitcher next year in the draft if a guy like Harvey or Porcello drops to us. I love having this depth, and once they are all ready for the bigs(2008) we have the best bargaining chips in all of baseball to go out and fill our need(s).

And this is yet another reason why building an organization solely around pitching is a bad idea.

 

 

Taking the other prospective though, couldn't you say that this is why you build around pitching? Pitchers get hurt. Having great depth at all levels with pitchers like we do means when a pitcher gets hurt, someone else is available to step up.

 

Most clubs don't have this luxury, if a rotation pitcher goes down, they are screwed, but starting next year we will have possibly 10 different guys who could start in just about any organization: DTrain,JJ, Olsen, Nolasco,Sanchez,Volstad, Gaby,West(maybe the only stretch to be available to start next year), Sinkbeil, Vanden Hurk..and it goes on.

 

One injury in the majors (JJ) or minors (West) doesn't destroy our team and finances like it would so many others. I wouldn't mind seeing us draft another pitcher next year in the draft if a guy like Harvey or Porcello drops to us. I love having this depth, and once they are all ready for the bigs(2008) we have the best bargaining chips in all of baseball to go out and fill our need(s).

 

Allow me to respond.

 

Of our vaunted roation, how many are former #1 overall picks....that's right, none. The highest round any of the 5 were taken was the 4th round (Nolasco, Johnson) and the latest the 8th (Willis). Of our vaunted "what could have been" team one flameout was the 4th overall pick in the draft (Jason Grilli) one major disappointment was an 8th round pick (AJ Burnett) and one who never quite stayed healthy was the second overall pick (Beckett).

 

Now, while I could go on about the Marlins exceptionally poor drafting since the '00 draft, I'll refrain and simply look at our history of high draft picks.

 

Since 2000 (when we took Adrian Gonzalez) our first pick has been used five times on pitchers, twice on hitters. Of those players, the pitching list is uninspiring, and admittedly, incomplete (Garret Berger, Allison, Tankersley, Volstad, Sinkbeil). However, the two position players are certainly ready to be established as above average or better (Adrian Gonzalez, Jeremy Hermida).

 

What's even more amazing is of that list, every pick save two (Tank, Sinkbeil) were high-schoolers, yet the high-school pitching (which, historically we've been enamored with as an organization) has time and again failed us.

 

Eventually, the team has to say enough is enough. I'm not going to sit here and say pitching is inconsequential, because it isn't, nor am I going to say that depth isn't important, because it is, but I am going to say balance is incredibly important, and the Marlins have completely abandoned balance and instead decided to horde the much more fragile (and, statistically less likely to reach their potential) side.

 

I'll leave you with this one thought. Last year, the Mets won the most games in the National League as a team that had a one deep pitching rotation and an above average bullpen. The eventual World Series Champion Cardinals have the best hitter on the planet and only one pitcher you'd call good and only one person in the bullpen you'd call above average. Now, you certainly can't win without at least decent pitching, but you absolutely cannot win with no offense.

The MLB draft is the hardest of all the drafts to project. No doubt about it, hitters or pitchers, its just hard to project High Schoolers and guys hitting with metal bats.

 

A couple of drafting rules though should always be applied:Never draft based on need, and when you have equal players and one is a hitter and one is a pitcher, take the pitcher. You point out how unbalanced in the minors we are and I agree, but it's not like we have many holes on the positional side on the big club that we will need filled by a guy in the minors...only one major hole and that is CF.

 

I think you're point of how many pitchers have been busts for us in the draft(it is that way for EVERY MLB team) actually weakens your point. At a certain point it becomes a numbers game with pitchers, and obviously we have the numbers.

 

I'd rather be stocked on the lower levels with pitchers because you can always move them and they don't get blocked like position players do. Plus like I said in my original point, pitchers get hurt more often.

 

Yes the Mets and Cardinals were not built around pitching, but the Tigers were and this organization has ALWAYS been built around pitching and so far we've done pretty damn well.

 

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

 

I'd rather be stocked on the lower levels with pitchers because you can always move them and they don't get blocked like position players do. Plus like I said in my original point, pitchers get hurt more often.

 

There's the main point. If pitchers get hurt more often, and the axiom is give me 5 can't miss pitchers and I'll give you one major leaguer, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy that it is an absolute waste of a first round pick to keep stock-piling pitchers.

 

I'm not calling the Beckett or Kazmir's of the world (or even Jeff Allison because that was not talent related and would have happened if he were a short-stop) mistakes, but those mid round picks, like Sinkbeil, are really regrettable. Hell, Jacoby Ellsbury, who is a guy I think all would kill to have for centerfield, was passed up not once but twice in favor of two of our fab-5, one of whom is sitting in the waiting room in Birmingham.

 

Now let me ask you, would you not trade Aaron Thompson for Jacoby Ellsbury?

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

Sorry, I meant the system as a whole, including the Major League teams.

 

Yes, I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury.

 

 

What is so regrettable about Brett Sinkbeil? What don't you like about him?

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

Sorry, I meant the system as a whole, including the Major League teams.

 

Yes, I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury.

 

 

What is so regrettable about Brett Sinkbeil? What don't you like about him?

 

Well, by your philosophy, you wouldn't because Thompson was taken ahead of Ellsbury...problem is, the Red Sox wouldn't, again showing the fallacy in assuming tremendous value in high-school pitchers at low levels.

 

There's nothing about Sinkbeil the person, rather just what he represents, the Marlins drafting completely with a blind eye towards need and completely towards signability.

 

And the Devil-Rays Marlins comparison isn't entirely fair and you know it. The Marlins were not built solely from within, but rather a series of trades designed to deconstruct a powerhouse with disregard towards a "complete" the puzzle mentality and rather just to attempt to maximize value received in exchange.

 

The Devil-Rays were built entirely around the draft, and unfortunately had the biggest draft flameout in recent memory with Josh Hamilton. If you swap our Joshes from the 1999 draft, I think you'd see the Rays being the enviable franchise.

It's arguable who had more talent, Thompson or Ellsbury

It's arguable who had more talent, Thompson or Ellsbury

 

Oh come on Ramp, you and I were both beating the drums for Ellsbury and Teagarden.

It's arguable who had more talent, Thompson or Ellsbury

 

Oh come on Ramp, you and I were both beating the drums for Ellsbury and Teagarden.

yea we were... I must have missed the point you were trying to make

 

I thought Godfather said you take the most talented available...

It's arguable who had more talent, Thompson or Ellsbury

 

Oh come on Ramp, you and I were both beating the drums for Ellsbury and Teagarden.

yea we were... I must have missed the point you were trying to make

 

I thought Godfather said you take the most talented available...

 

Maybe I missed that too, what I took from him is summed in one sentence:

 

I'd rather be stocked on the lower levels with pitchers because you can always move them and they don't get blocked like position players do. Plus like I said in my original point, pitchers get hurt more often.

 

As in, more pitching is good, and it makes sense to take pitching over position players because pitchers have a higher flame-out rate.

 

As Ellsbury has shown us both in the past and present, that mind-set is intrinsically flawed.

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

Sorry, I meant the system as a whole, including the Major League teams.

 

Yes, I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury.

 

 

What is so regrettable about Brett Sinkbeil? What don't you like about him?

 

Well, by your philosophy, you wouldn't because Thompson was taken ahead of Ellsbury...problem is, the Red Sox wouldn't, again showing the fallacy in assuming tremendous value in high-school pitchers at low levels.

 

There's nothing about Sinkbeil the person, rather just what he represents, the Marlins drafting completely with a blind eye towards need and completely towards signability.

 

 

I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury and the Red Sox would not, I agree 100%. That does not validate your side. What about this- Who would you rather have from the 05 draft: Chris Volstad (RHPpick16) Carl Henry(SS #17) John Mayberry(RF#19) or Clifton Pennington(SS#21). The only one anybody could possibly argue is Mayberry, but with his age and #'s it's still a tough argument and one I doubt anyone can win.

 

Does this validate my point? Hell no. One pick in any draft doesn't overrule the take a pitcher, BPA and never draft for need philosophy. Yes I'd rather have Ellsbury than Thompson(who is still a very good player btw) but that doesn't negate my side of the argument that I'd rather be top heavy on pitchers as an organization.

 

I don't get how you can argue Sinkbeil as a signability pick when just about every mock draft had him pegged as a mid 1st round prospect and he signed for slot money?

 

A signability pick would have been something like us taking Adrian Cardenas the SS from Miami who went in the Sandwich round and nobody projected as a mid 1st round guy.

 

BTW: Who would you have taken instead of Sinkbeil as the need pick in the 06 draft?

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

Sorry, I meant the system as a whole, including the Major League teams.

 

Yes, I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury.

 

 

What is so regrettable about Brett Sinkbeil? What don't you like about him?

 

Well, by your philosophy, you wouldn't because Thompson was taken ahead of Ellsbury...problem is, the Red Sox wouldn't, again showing the fallacy in assuming tremendous value in high-school pitchers at low levels.

 

There's nothing about Sinkbeil the person, rather just what he represents, the Marlins drafting completely with a blind eye towards need and completely towards signability.

 

 

I would trade Thompson for Ellsbury and the Red Sox would not, I agree 100%. That does not validate your side. What about this- Who would you rather have from the 05 draft: Chris Volstad (RHPpick16) Carl Henry(SS #17) John Mayberry(RF#19) or Clifton Pennington(SS#21). The only one anybody could possibly argue is Mayberry, but with his age and #'s it's still a tough argument and one I doubt anyone can win.

 

Does this validate my point? Hell no. One pick in any draft doesn't overrule the take a pitcher, BPA and never draft for need philosophy. Yes I'd rather have Ellsbury than Thompson(who is still a very good player btw) but that doesn't negate my side of the argument that I'd rather be top heavy on pitchers as an organization.

 

I don't get how you can argue Sinkbeil as a signability pick when just about every mock draft had him pegged as a mid 1st round prospect and he signed for slot money?

 

A signability pick would have been something like us taking Adrian Cardenas the SS from Miami who went in the Sandwich round and nobody projected as a mid 1st round guy.

 

BTW: Who would you have taken instead of Sinkbeil as the need pick in the 06 draft?

 

The 2006 draft was just terrible, but I would have taken Parmelee without question over Sinkbeil.

 

PS: while I realize your inevitable response will be that Parmelee solves neither the catcher or center-field situation, I agree yet I feel Jacobs is much more upgraded by the presence of Willingham/Parmelee in LF/1B in some capacity than we will be by having the fab 5 + Sanchez/Olsen + Sinkbeil in 2 years.

Pitchers get hurt more than hitters. Better chance that Pitchers are busts. So you draft as many as you can so that if you draft 10 hopefully 3 or 4 become quality players. And pitching wins.

Pitchers get hurt more than hitters. Better chance that Pitchers are busts. So you draft as many as you can so that if you draft 10 hopefully 3 or 4 become quality players. And pitching wins.

:banghead

 

I see my point was completely missed.

I'll leave with this point: Which system is healthier right now? The D-Rays or the Marlins?

 

Literally, and figuratively, the Devil Rays.

 

All the Marlins talent is either raw or at the major league level. The Rays are young, have talent coming, and talent ready to step in right now.

 

I'd rather be stocked on the lower levels with pitchers because you can always move them and they don't get blocked like position players do. Plus like I said in my original point, pitchers get hurt more often.

 

There's the main point. If pitchers get hurt more often, and the axiom is give me 5 can't miss pitchers and I'll give you one major leaguer, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy that it is an absolute waste of a first round pick to keep stock-piling pitchers.

 

I'm not calling the Beckett or Kazmir's of the world (or even Jeff Allison because that was not talent related and would have happened if he were a short-stop) mistakes, but those mid round picks, like Sinkbeil, are really regrettable. Hell, Jacoby Ellsbury, who is a guy I think all would kill to have for centerfield, was passed up not once but twice in favor of two of our fab-5, one of whom is sitting in the waiting room in Birmingham.

 

Now let me ask you, would you not trade Aaron Thompson for Jacoby Ellsbury?

Swift you have my ear on this one!